No Rapture

Arnold Murray
In one hand a Bible and the other he totes a gun. He teaches that we are to be soldiers for God. The rapture of the church is an Antichrist conspiracy. What Christ taught, is in the very end of all these things coming to pass.
Of that great day only our Father in heaven knows. Is the rapture false doctrine ? Lets here your views.





I am my Kings loyal servant.
Hopeful of knighthood I practice the art of his sword.
For only his sword, has been forged in the flames of his voice.
A promise I claim by his written word

Who amoung the heathen has a King who would die for them.
Who is the Father of my loving King?
I long to humble myself at the tip of his garment.
For only thru him could I ever sing

As I am my Kings humble servant.
Hopeful to bow and be knighted.
That I may take his sword into battle.
Or simply to hear him speak my own name.

I'm sure you've heard of my King
The King who was dead but now lives again
In his rein is the shower of mercy
For the wrong I have done in his name.



Randyvious

I've read arguments for and against the Rapture and for and against the different views on the timing of the Rapture (pre-trib/ mid-trib and post-trib) and consulted the Bible often while reading the various arguments. Based on all of that I concluded that the pre-trib Rapture has the strongest Scriptural support. But I'm not dogmatic about it because like many other things in the Bible it's a grey area that depends largely upon interpretation.

I have also read these opinions that the Rapture is an AC conspiracy and personally I think that's just silly. Certainly one could argue that individuals who are preaching unsound Rapture doctrine (such as Harold Camping) are evil and I wouldn't disagree, but those who preach sound doctrine are very quick to point out that the Rapture is not a form of escapism because we do not know the timing; and we should therefore live our lives to the fullest and not expect to be whisked away to take us away from all our problems.

The guy is right....rapture will NOT happen

Its just another made up story to scare all you helpless christians into giving more money to the church and fearing the power of god....so that your all good little people.

The rapture happens every day. Just not for us, for now.

Originally posted by yourmaker
The rapture happens every day. Just not for us, for now.

Now that's not fair to live everyone hang'in like that. Please elaborate a tad.

Loves a conspiracy

Sounds as though you don't believe anything.

The rapture, as it's currently being taught, is unknown to traditional Christianity. The "rapture" Christians have always hoped for is the second coming of Christ which marks the end of this world.

Perhaps some Christians want to escape the coming holocaust and so cling to the idea of a rapture. But scripture is clear, Christians will be knee deep in the misery and persecutions to come. It may be hard for some to accept but that's precisely where we'll be needed most, in the trenches so to speak.

reply to post by monkcaw


It's either prophetic, or a prosthelitization enhancer - If you preach the end is nye; and that the deity of your religion is the hero; people will submit.

If you preach impending doom, of course even if you don't believe; you would submit to a belief structure because of the "possibility" that their nonsense is correct.

"The end is nye, repent for your sins!"

reply to post by ExistentialNightmare


Yes, we believe the end is near, but the end is always near and that is not the Good News. Nearer yet is our own death and instead of scaring people with the end of the world we should be delivering the hope of the resurrection.

Originally posted by monkcaw
reply to post by ExistentialNightmare

 

Yes, we believe the end is near, but the end is always near and that is not the Good News. Nearer yet is our own death and instead of scaring people with the end of the world we should be delivering the hope of the resurrection.

Bingo bango bongo. You nailed the whole point of the thead. !st page.
The resurrection and the blood and the armour is all anyone needs. Why fear death or persecution or any evil when life awaits ? Take the s-word of God and do battle.

reply to post by randyvs


I was afraid I was derailing away from the topic of the rapture.

reply to post by monkcaw

Yes, we believe the end is near, but the end is always near and that is not the Good News

Christians have always been preaching end times. Similar prosthelitization techniques can be seen in the other abrahamic religions.

Nearer yet is our own death and instead of scaring people with the end of the world we should be delivering the hope of the resurrection.

Death is near, but it is an inevitable part of life; in the same way that a star had to die for us to be here.

What's even scarier is when people force you into a belief structure, because they believe they are right. When people state "if you do not follow our dogma you will burn for an eternity."

False hope, and false metaphysical fear preaching such as "Hellfire" is not friendly, and it's not honest.

reply to post by monkcaw


Jesus Christ my King and Kingdom come are always the topic.
Make that our King. I have a habit of being a bit possessive.


Exist
It seems that Christians are always preaching the end is near because to God it is very near. A thousand years being as a day.

Originally posted by monkcaw
The rapture, as it's currently being taught, is unknown to traditional Christianity.

Ephraem of Nisibis, 373 AD:
"For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."

Originally posted by monkcaw
The "rapture" Christians have always hoped for is the second coming of Christ which marks the end of this world.

No, that's the "second coming". "Rapture" is a term given for the "catching up" referred to in this passage:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Originally posted by monkcaw
Perhaps some Christians want to escape the coming holocaust and so cling to the idea of a rapture.

I disagree. Most Christians in fact WANT to be here for the Tribulation, because many of them fear greatly that they will be taken and their non-believing friends and relatives will be left behind with no one left to explain to them what is going on. Most Christians do not embrace the Rapture, many are downright scared of it.

Originally posted by monkcaw
But scripture is clear, Christians will be knee deep in the misery and persecutions to come.

Now I respect the opinions of others who don't believe at all in the Rapture or believe in different timing of the Rapture than me, but I take exception when anyone says Scripture is "clear" on this because if it was clear then we would all agree on the same interpretation, wouldn't we? But I look at passages like the one below, and it pretty clearly conflicts with your statement.

Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

reply to post by SavedOne

I disagree. Most Christians in fact WANT to be here for the Tribulation, because many of them fear greatly that they will be taken and their non-believing friends and relatives will be left behind with no one left to explain to them what is going on. Most Christians do not embrace the Rapture, many are downright scared of it.

I certainly think you're right about that. It would scare the crap out of anyone the way it's described in Thessalonians. I almost would rather wait.

I was kinda counting on the rapture -- I was hoping to visit Texas sometime -- but I was going to wait til post rapture, it would a little saner.

Originally posted by randyvs
It seems that Christians are always preaching the end is near because to God it is very near. A thousand years being as a day.

Here's what I tell people regarding this, Jesus gave us very specific information on what to look for to identify the End Times:

2 Timothy 3:1-5
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

And this:

Luke 21:7-11
And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

Now some argue that we've always had these signs, and yes, that's somewhat true. But few can legitimately argue that we've had them with the frequency and intensity that we see today. Jesus referred to these events as birth pangs in Matt 24:8 and anyone who has children knows that the pangs increase in frequency and intensity right up to the birth. That's exactly what we see these days, the above events are happening with increasing frequency and intensity. The pangs used to be few and far between, but anymore they make the headlines practically daily.

So, what I say to people is that yes, many have always preached that the end of the world is at hand and yes, they were wrong. But just because they were wrong about the end being in their time doesn't mean that we're wrong as well. I've followed prophecy for over 2 decades now and I was completely convinced we were hundreds of years away at a minimum. But events have transpired in the last 5 or so years that have been astonishing to me and have convinced me that we are very close indeed. Either that or we've completely misunderstood what Jesus was preaching in the above passages.

Originally posted by randyvs
I certainly think you're right about that. It would scare the crap out of anyone the way it's described in Thessalonians. I almost would rather wait.

I'm kind of an adrenaline junkie, so it sounds like a fun ride to me

reply to post by SavedOne


I'm sure that would do it for me.
Might as well add this here.

Is there a rapture? Yes there is. Otherwise how can these verses from Revelation be explained. And how do you explain where all the people came from at the end of Rev. 7.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev. 7
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

reply to post by ntech


Your post is the special christian logic at its most typical. Reality MUST conform to a mythological manual.