Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox

So basically some brilliant, mad-man has given America a auto-immune disease? We're killing ourselves?

We have allowed corporations to make it more cost effective to buy products from foreign countries and not ourselves which would help us?

reply to post by apacheman


I'm sure it is very scary, and I'm sorry. When I lost my home a few years ago, we had only been there a couple of years. I hate to see anyone lose something after 14 years. I think your deeds, and your commitment will account for some karmic retribution, and I think your suffering will be temporary at worst. No one should be ashamed to ask for temporary help, especially when they have done, and are doing everything in their power to stave off the boogeyman. The ones that we hate, are the ones that have been asking for that handout even in the best of times! The ones that have never helped another person in their life, but they always seem to be asking someone else for help.

reply to post by moonleaf


I put my thoughts on the OP up in the very beginning. I see the OP as a positive thing that the US has raised its standard of living so far, that even our most poor residents are living better than the average in other countries.

Nobody is trying to end the social programs, we are just trying to limit them to the honest people that need a handout. We don't want the efforts wasted on those that would abuse them.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
So basically some brilliant, mad-man has given America a auto-immune disease? We're killing ourselves?

We have allowed corporations to make it more cost effective to buy products from foreign countries and not ourselves which would help us?

That is a brilliant quote!

If I wasn't so found of my Ron Paul banner, I would make that my signature line!

reply to post by DZAG Wright


Looks that way. The people that I work with are mostly seniors or disabled adults. They don't go to the farmer's market because they cannot afford it. They go to Wal-Mart and buy the cheapest food they can get. Unfortunately, the cheapest food is the stuff that the elite look down on them for buying. A lot of sodas, junk food, processed food, and whatever China is churning out at any given moment.

It is sad when you go to the store and it is cheaper to buy soda to drink than it is to buy water or juice. And yes, most people buy water around here. We live in a rural area and most of the poor either do not have a well, cannot afford to maintain one, or their water is not drinkable.

And as for the great living conditions of the poor, many of our poor seniors still have outhouses, no running water, and some have no electricity.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by apacheman

 

I put my thoughts on the OP up in the very beginning. I see the OP as a positive thing that the US has raised its standard of living so far, that even our most poor residents are living better than the average in other countries.

Nobody is trying to end the social programs, we are just trying to limit them to the honest people that need a handout. We don't want the efforts wasted on those that would abuse them.

How do you propose that we do that? I realize that there are some people that are ripping off the system. But how do you plan to weed them out without punishing the others?

reply to post by moonleaf


Good question.

First and foremost, we need education, and back to work programs that are actually utilized. We need partnerships with the industries that are currently hiring illegals. It is usually hard work, but it also usually has temporary housing on site, and it they are used to some of the headaches that come with hiring the homeless.

Secondly, as I mentioned earlier, we need some punishments for making bad decisions while on the aid. We need drug testing, we need instant disqualification for convictions, drugs, DUI's, and we need some type of curtailment for additional pregnancies while on the aid. If one cannot support their current family, they definitely don't need to be increasing its size.

Thirdly, it needs to be temporary help. If there are viable alternatives like work programs, and disability programs, then there is no need for extended assistance. It is there to help with transition periods or retraining, or unexpected health issues. It isn't a career.

Also, I have no problem with some of the programs, like HUD, and income adjusted utilities, I mainly have a problem with cash assistance. If someone is working, but the income is just low, then they should be rewarded with scaled rents and utilities and foodstamps where appropriate.

Interesting thread. I like to see people's thoughts on this issue, as I and my family kind of fall somewhere in there. We are a family of four making just over $30,000. I'm working 56 hours this week, and most weeks work pretty close to that. We have no cable or dish TV of any kind. We recently went about three weeks with no running water because our well dried up and we could not afford to have a new one drilled. We finally put an $800 gallon water tank on our already overburdened credit card. We now pay $90 to have 1,000 gallons of water delivered to our house. It might last us about three weeks. Plus we owe several hundred more dollars for related plumbing issues. We've had several thousand dollars worth of medical bills already this year due to two sick kids, two emergency room visits and some neurological issues with my wife and a surgery for me (bad year). We do have insurance, but all of that was out of pocket (or rather, on our credit card) due to our deductible. My wife and I each have a cell phone, for which we pay a total of $14 a month as part of a family share plan with some other family members. Pretty much every two weeks, a few days before I get paid, we run out of money and have to put any necessaries on the credit card.

On the plus side, we do have Internet access and a 10-year-old microwave that causes the baby monitor to go crazy when it's on. I'd be interested to know how other people on this thread compare. Is your situation similar? Better? Worse?

reply to post by getreadyalready

I have to be honest with you brother. I think part of many of our problems these days is that we don't even raise our own children anymore. People shuttle their kids to daycare, or hire a nanny, so that they can make more money out in the world.

In my opinion, this adds to many of the issues kids have these days. They are raised by total strangers in the name of profit!

All of the friends my wife and I have take their kids to daycare, one even has an in-home "babysitter" and many of these kids are on Ritalin, one's been moved to a home for "special kids" and many parents have a serious problem connecting to their children.

We on the other hand have a completely different story. I worked 2-3 jobs for 11 years, now I am in a position that I only work one but long hours, just so my wife could stay home and raise the children. Things were and still can be tight but my kids are intelligent, well-rounded and we have a bond with them that most kids are missing these days! We raise our kids! No one else! Some people think we are weird for doing so!

So I think that your "nanny" idea is complete hogwash and part of the problem. We need to concentrate on the kids and family, not making ends meet in an unrealistic capitalistic system where the dollar means more than the family.

We should help people do that. If that means having a social safety net.....so be it! You may call people lazy for collecting welfare, but I think it's lazy to not raise your own kids. Tit for tat?

reply to post by dolphinfan


Ahh yes the Heritage Foundation. Why the hell do the conservatives want us to blame the poor, then turn around and blame the president for more people being poor. Soo...if you cant get them to vote for you....slam them?

Right now the dems are doing what old time republicans could only hope for and what are they doing? Pushing super extreme bs that noone could agree to. The are forcing the country to stay as fecal as long as possible so the average non-attentive of FOX viewers blame the dems.

Most people do know better...some don't.

Call me whatever, i am mostly centrist.

I in no way can even think about voting for a Republican. Right now it's like voting for a kick in balls.

reply to post by sheepslayer247

So I think that your "nanny" idea is complete hogwash and part of the problem. We need to concentrate on the kids and family, not making ends meet in an unrealistic capitalistic system where the dollar means more that the family.

We should help people do that. If that means having a social safety net.....so be it! You may call people lazy for collecting welfare, but I think it's lazy to not raise your own kids. Tit for tat?

I agree to a certain extent. I definitely agree with the sentiments on medicating kids. That will never happen to my kids. If any kid ever needed Ritalin, it was me, but my parents never went there, and I grew up better from their extra care.

In my opinion, my kids are not being raised by an outsider. They started going to "school" at the early ages of 3 and 4, and during the summer they have the nanny. It isn't the typical daycare, it is actually the elementary school that they will eventually attend anyway. I am home by 5 every night except Tuesdays. We put them to bed every night, and we get them up every morning. We read, we play. We are very "connected." If I ever start to feel that connection dissolving, I will definitely take immediate action to fix it, even if that means quitting a job or two. That is exactly the reason that my income dropped so sharply when my wife was pregnant with our second. I had a corporate job that was long hours, weekends, travel, etc. I wasn't seeing my baby grow up, and every time I saw him he was different than the time before. It was sad, and I wasn't going to let it continue, so I took the first job with the state that I could get. I didn't plan on being stuck in that entry level position as long as I was, so it become more of a sacrifice than I planned, but it was still worth it.

I do agree with your sentiment though. I miss the days of 1-income households, with "room-mothers" that helped out at the school, and were home with the kids the rest of the time. I suppose even the term "room-mothers" is probably not politically correct anymore.

I hope I'm not proven wrong about my situation. I want to believe we are still doing the right thing, but it is certainly a balancing act, and I could end up on either wrong end of the scale so easily.

reply to post by dolphinfan


I am poor. Been that way ever since my husband and I both had health problems at the same time. Neither of us can work any longer. We both entered the work force at 16, so I guess we had a pretty good run.

We have some nice, well, ok, not nice but decent things. We have 2 TVs, older models had them both for a long time. We do splurge on cable, we take care of my elderly father with Alz. and it is the only entertainment he/ we have. Also my husband spends a lot of sleepless nights due to pain and it helps him to pass the time. We have a land line and internet bundle. My PC was a gift from a relative. I had my old one for ages, it still had a floppy port. I have a cell phone, pay as you go, very cheap. I would not have that but I live a long way between places and my vehicle is not so fresh. Oh, yeah, I have a vehicle, 12 years old, saved for over a year to make the down pmt. and borrowed some from a friend when our old car conked out and I couldn't get Pop to dialysis. Paid it off in two more years by cutting back on everything. Oh, a guy ran into me the other day, and I may not have a car again after I do the bend me over two step with the insurance company. If they total it I am screwed.

But, we do not go hungry, I can cook anything and I can get pretty inventive. We have clean water for now, but if the drought holds on much longer we may not. Our house is still standing, but is not worth the matches to burn it down. It takes about all we can manage just to keep it upright and waterproof. It is certainly not in good repair. Not too much home improvement happens when you've got two disabled people and an old guy with Alz trying to do the job.

Oh, by the way, we do not get anything for free. We collect our SS and medicare and that's it. WE PAID FOR THAT! IT IS NOT AN ENTITLEMENT. ITS INSURANCE!! Ok, let me continue...

The poor in this country do not suffer the horrendous conditions that people in other countries struggle with everyday of their lives. In that we are lucky. But most of us are one disaster away from being homeless. If I do not have a vehicle, I can't take care of my dad. He will have to go to a nursing home. That means we will lose a third of our household income and Pop will be dead within a month. (Folks like him don't do well in nursing homes.) We can manage on the money. But my dad should not have to be instutuionalized and lose his life because I can't afford a car. (For now he is getting transportation from the VA but it is temporary.) That is the kind of poverty we face in America. Is it better than third world countries, yes. Is it as good as it should be in the richest country in the world, no.

The OP should really be ashamed and I pray they never find themselves on the wrong side of their politics. It sucks to live in fear everyday.

The basic argument here is that poor people in the U.S. aren't as poor as people in some Asian or African countries.

That is such a sad argument. Isn't the U.S. supposed to be the greatest nation in the world?

It is true that many poor people in the U.S. do have air-conditioning. What is concerning our government is that these poor people as of this year aren't able to repair that air-conditioning anymore.

When that happens, people start to riot and pillage. Those of you who don't want to pay more taxes will reap what you sow.

Now perhaps you'll all escape with your lives if you get out of your mansions before they come. But they will take all your things. Wait for it. This future is just around the corner.

reply to post by getreadyalready
Well said and i commend you for doing what you feel is right.

The real point here is how can we judge others or put stipulations on others for doing what they feel is right in their particular situation? Whos to say your way is better, or my way. People do what they have to do in this messed up world.

If they need help I am all for helping. I would only hope that they are there for me when i need it....and we all need help sometimes.

Rich folks on ATS. You're good at reading the signs aren't you?

Why aren't you able to foresee the anger boiling over in the U.S.?

Look around you.

reply to post by mudbeed


Actually its a little more like voting for several well placed blows to the nuts.

There are only 2 of us but our student loans are more than our mortgage..By about $500 a month..and we have a decent house...

I have no clue how people that make under 100k do it with kids..

I have no clue how our parents did it...Raising 4 kids making what they did..

Sure we have a few 'toys' like iPads, xboxs, and other thing that make life bearable...but we still shop at discount stores and live paycheck to paycheck...

We have dipped into our savings account and 401k from time to time..

Why would anyone begrudge someone at the poverty line any measure of comfort?

All I hear is right wing propaganda to divide us so we are too busy fighting with each other to see what they are getting away with...and it's working....shame on you OP

So basically we're saying the poor of America are "lucky" because they have a game system they can get for cheap off eBay?

Lovely. Pure rubbish.

reply to post by dolphinfan


I have to agree with you about the subsidies. I know these people are what some consider poor, but I would like to state my case as to why those so called "POOR" are downright head cases.

I have lived in a home that has been in disrepair for like 3 years now (when we got it it was in good shape) the land it is on is rented and their sewage pipe backed up into my home & when they refused to fix it, now because of thier negligence my house is in disrepair which they will not pay to fix although it was their negligence that caused it. We've lived here 5 years no washer or dryer (we have them but there is no hook-up) with money of course we could do the hook up, but remember we can't even repair our home. My children had a ps2 but it broke it will likely not be replaced, we only have AC because luckily we have friends that can fix it for us when it decides to crap out and they do it for free (it craps out every year since it's like from the 70s or so), no cable, Computer was bought at comp usa refurbished (Meaning it was used), verizon is fairly cheap 30 bucks a month so we have been able to keep our internet luckily because three of us depend on it for our education I go online to itt-tech, my son and daughter have there High School classes online. However we have been denied medicaid and food stamps when we need them, their father works a a sign installer in a very small business who cannot afford to provide health care, and we certainly can't buy healthcare, and there are times he doesn't have work for weeks (he also is a construction worker so he does that as side work). The point is...these people are a real bunch of lowlife scumbags they think they are poor, Let them live my life!!!(I am in no way trying to get sympathy, I am just stating facts.) And I could bet most of these so called "poor" never had the issues I have right now, most of them already owned their house, a real house not a mobile home, so they get no sympathy from me!!!

Oh also it is three children and two adults living in a two bedroom mobile home, that I would consider crowded living coditions, seeing as how me and their father let them have the bedrooms and we sleep on couches in the living room. (2 girls share one of the bedrooms and my son has what used to be ours, when they were younger all three shared what was the master bedroom). Don't get me wrong, I am thankful I even have a roof over our heads, that may not be the case very soon though, because we're way behind on lot rent, but probably wouldn't get rent assistance if we tried. Yeah so I don't consider people in the OP to be poor.

I also know alot of the truly poor are not really being included in these statistics because they are not so called "qualified" for assistance. Which they should be, because there are homeless families and they're not even counted in these statistics, when you're homeless you're not qualified for assistance, but they will sure jump on your A$$ and take your kids away. There are people living in those exact conditions that aren't be counted because they cannot get assistance. Oh we also have more than 1 tv however they are all craigslist giveaways and only two actually work so we were going to screw with the other parts to make the salvageable ones better. So many might have several used tvs, but not have them working.

In fact all this stuff in the OP is based solely on those recieving these subsidies, so the numbers are far from factual. When they go out to tent cities and take census there, then come back with those results, then they will be more accurate. Because last I heard something like 4 million people are either homeless or living with parental units or friends since being foreclosed on. Those numbers are greatly scewed from that article. They only counted people on assistance hardly reliable.

reply to post by dolphinfan

There is no need to accept cuts to our living standards. There is good reason why the US poor are not living in tent cities or enjoying a life like that seen in Lagos or similar. That reason is Social Services and our welfare systems. They are all that maintain the American way of life you hold so dear.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/34cde39fa9a2.gif[/atsimg]

There will always be those who are unable, or just unwilling to pull themselves out of the dirt, but their burden is nothing when compared to our military spending.

Excellent post O.P. Couldn't agree more. Its beyond ridiculous. Its time to change the mindset that the American government exists to fund a socialist agenda. Garbage.