First round of Obama's Executive Gun Control laws announced

Originally posted by olliemc84

Originally posted by obzerver
hm no guns wer all screwed it was a nice try trying to get away from england but i gess there is magik we just cant soon we will be slaves to what ever attacks us whit black dont matter wer defenceless no neet to stock up probly cometo your house and take it ill like red shackles or to die fast i realy dont want to live in a gods land government

Huh??

Oh now that wasnt nice to "obzerver" a bit funny so I'm bad too. He did have a good point though.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by something wicked

 

Most here don't really care what other countries do, in regards to gun laws.

And that is an absolutely fair comment and I feel likewise....... but then many on ATS seem to feel that it gives some kind of superiority to have a gun, or several guns, or an arsenal of guns.

It is not a complex.
He have the right to do so. The US Fed Govt is trampling on it.

It sounds as if you have never had the right. How can one miss what they never had?

Because I'd rather talk to someone than shoot them? Is that a fair answer? If you shoot a representative of your government you will be shot yourself if apprehended at the scene or face a very long sentence, is that solving the issue?

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle

Originally posted by wonderworld

Originally posted by pyrodude
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

This is an outrage! Woulldnt the rest of the world love a disarmed america. Well come on down to the south, I wont be disarmed!

They can come up North too. Mine arent going anywhere! I will always have a constitutional right to defend my family, hunt for food and collect family heirloom guns, if I wish to. Ammo is next on the registry. With increased crime along the border more average citizens need protection from thugs. These things bring my blood to a boil. There are more serious issues going on in Congress that will start a civil war here in the US and they are aware all hell will break loose soon.

Personally - I have thought for years that TPTB are trying to cause a civil war in America.

Once that occurs America will be too weak to help other countries defend theirselves.

Then, once that has been acomplished, they could settle america down by having a foreign enemy to attack us - which would reunify America to defend against said country.

Many US states have been near leaving the union. If it can happen to the USSR it can happen here, as well. I agree about TPTB starting a civil war. Also "divided we fall"

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle





Have you travelled anywhere outside of America? How many western countries are doing the things you mention above? Please answer the question as you seem to suggest it's because you are allowed to own a gun where many (most) other western countries don't. This isn't a criticism of your country but please, there is no need to defend it at the expense of every other country - if it works for you, cool, keeps the arms dealers warm in winter.

edit on 13-7-2011 by something wicked because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-7-2011 by something wicked because: typo

Yes - I have traveled outside of America.

The statement was referencing historical events - I thought that would be obvious, so I appologize for the confusion.

The point is that the countries where the people are not allowed to own firearms is more likley to be attacked by a foreign power - more to the point, they would be more easily invaded by a foreign power; or taken over by a radical government group.

I don't know why this is so difficult to get across, as history has shown this is the case.

That's why the old expression "Those who don't learn from their past are doomed to repeat it" is so very true.

Anyone who would deny that the people owning firearms, or the means to truly defend theirselves, is a good idea obviously has not learned a great deal from history.

This fact is undeniable, unarguable - it is a theme that has been repeated throughout history - over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.

Sorry, it wasn't obvious, statistics show the majority of Americans do not have a passport, I didn't want to assume when you hadn't said otherwise that you did. History doesn't show that when the public - which is not a common force - they are more likely to be oppressed but I'd be really interested where you can show this is the case. Thanks for responding.

Originally posted by Primordial

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by something wicked

 

Most here don't really care what other countries do, in regards to gun laws.

And that is an absolutely fair comment and I feel likewise....... but then many on ATS seem to feel that it gives some kind of superiority to have a gun, or several guns, or an arsenal of guns.

It's not a superiority issue. The issue is that whenever a gun topic comes up we have a bunch of non-americans come in and start with their 'silly americans and their guns' comments and insults, acting as if they are somehow more civilized than us. We then feel the need to defend ourselves and our rights that others have given up. Sometimes I think it's really an issue of 'if we can't have them then nobody should'.

I'll admit we Americans do have a love affair with our weapons, but if they would mind their business since it doesn't concern them it wouldn't be an issue.

Hello, but it is as many Americans on ATS (although none that I converse daily with on a working level) seem to take a high ground on this issue - I really wouldn't normally even post on this if it wasn't for some of the posts on this thread. Thank you, if the aforementioned posters would mind their business (this is a global site) then it wouldn't be an issue, would it?

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by Primordial

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by something wicked

 

Most here don't really care what other countries do, in regards to gun laws.

And that is an absolutely fair comment and I feel likewise....... but then many on ATS seem to feel that it gives some kind of superiority to have a gun, or several guns, or an arsenal of guns.

It's not a superiority issue. The issue is that whenever a gun topic comes up we have a bunch of non-americans come in and start with their 'silly americans and their guns' comments and insults, acting as if they are somehow more civilized than us. We then feel the need to defend ourselves and our rights that others have given up. Sometimes I think it's really an issue of 'if we can't have them then nobody should'.

I'll admit we Americans do have a love affair with our weapons, but if they would mind their business since it
doesn't concern them it wouldn't be an issue.

Hello, but it is as many Americans on ATS (although none that I converse daily with on a working level) seem to take a high ground on this issue - I really wouldn't normally even post on this if it wasn't for some of the posts on this thread. Thank you, if the aforementioned posters would mind their business (this is a global site) then it wouldn't be an issue, would it?

It is a global site but not a global issue. Debating the issue is welcome, taking the opportunity to get in some digs and insults is not and contributes nothing intelligent.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle

Originally posted by Threegirls
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Why would that be such a bad thing?

I have never understood the American attachment to to the right to bear arms, what positive benefits has it brought to you when compared to the many disadvantages? This is serious question, I only wish to understand. I know of plenty people in Britain who have guns and adhere to the very strict gun laws. Do you not have the same laws governing your right to arms, if not why not?

American’s owning guns is a very good thing.

It prevents dictators from taking over – it is the last round of defense.

Also, if a foreign country decided to invade us, they wouldn’t get very far if the majority of the population had guns.

If China decided to invade the UK – I don’t believe the UK would stand up very well against such an assault.

However, let them try to do that in America, and I promise they wouldn’t get very far.



Also – bad people will get guns…. While people who abide by the laws are restricted on obtaining them. So, if the innocent do not have a means to defend their selves against an aggressor who will get weapons no matter what, then the bad people win.

Studies have shown that cities that made it harder to get guns – crime increased drastically.
While cities that made it easier to get guns – crime dropped drastically.

If we were disarmed The Citizen of this Country ! Expect to see this

Red Dawn



The Future of America: Obama's China Syndrome Leads to Red Dawn 2011 in the Golden Country

Originally posted by Primordial

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by Primordial

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by something wicked

 

Most here don't really care what other countries do, in regards to gun laws.

And that is an absolutely fair comment and I feel likewise....... but then many on ATS seem to feel that it gives some kind of superiority to have a gun, or several guns, or an arsenal of guns.

It's not a superiority issue. The issue is that whenever a gun topic comes up we have a bunch of non-americans come in and start with their 'silly americans and their guns' comments and insults, acting as if they are somehow more civilized than us. We then feel the need to defend ourselves and our rights that others have given up. Sometimes I think it's really an issue of 'if we can't have them then nobody should'.

I'll admit we Americans do have a love affair with our weapons, but if they would mind their business since it
doesn't concern them it wouldn't be an issue.

Hello, but it is as many Americans on ATS (although none that I converse daily with on a working level) seem to take a high ground on this issue - I really wouldn't normally even post on this if it wasn't for some of the posts on this thread. Thank you, if the aforementioned posters would mind their business (this is a global site) then it wouldn't be an issue, would it?

It is a global site but not a global issue. Debating the issue is welcome, taking the opportunity to get in some digs and insults is not and contributes nothing intelligent.

You are right, shame people don't stop then isn't it.

reply to post by Threegirls

the availability of guns is the problem and adequate security is the answer to your proposition.

while what you say seems logical, restricting guns promotes violence. lets look at a real world scenario:

In 1982, the Kennesaw City Council unanimously passed a law requiring heads of households to own at least one firearm with ammunition.

"People all over the country said there would be shootings in the street and violence in homes," he said. "Of course, that wasn't the case."

Kennesaw Historical Society president Robert Jones said following the law's passage, the crime rate dropped 89 percent in the city, compared to the modest 10 percent drop statewide. "It did drop after it was passed," he said. "After it initially dropped, it has stayed at the same low level for the past 16 years."

www.rense.com...

89% crime rate drop?! that's staggering! think about it, are you likely to rob a house that you know has a gun? would you risk your life for a little cash?

most of the country is made up of responsible, law abiding citizens. giving them guns prevents crime. who would attempt a school shooting if everyone had guns? (i'm talking colleges). the town didn't go crazy and turn into the wild west, crime rates dropped dramatically.

that is why the right to bear arms should not be infringed.

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by something wicked

 

Most here don't really care what other countries do, in regards to gun laws.

And that is an absolutely fair comment and I feel likewise....... but then many on ATS seem to feel that it gives some kind of superiority to have a gun, or several guns, or an arsenal of guns.

It is not a complex.
He have the right to do so. The US Fed Govt is trampling on it.

It sounds as if you have never had the right. How can one miss what they never had?

Because I'd rather talk to someone than shoot them? Is that a fair answer? If you shoot a representative of your government you will be shot yourself if apprehended at the scene or face a very long sentence, is that solving the issue?

Sorry, but what are you babbling about?
How did you go from discussing the illegal tactics used by the BATF, AT Holder and Obama to firearm carrying to shooting someone in the face?
Your retort is a shining example of failed liberal logic within the firearms realm.

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by Primordial

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by something wicked

 

Most here don't really care what other countries do, in regards to gun laws.

And that is an absolutely fair comment and I feel likewise....... but then many on ATS seem to feel that it gives some kind of superiority to have a gun, or several guns, or an arsenal of guns.

It's not a superiority issue. The issue is that whenever a gun topic comes up we have a bunch of non-americans come in and start with their 'silly americans and their guns' comments and insults, acting as if they are somehow more civilized than us. We then feel the need to defend ourselves and our rights that others have given up. Sometimes I think it's really an issue of 'if we can't have them then nobody should'.

I'll admit we Americans do have a love affair with our weapons, but if they would mind their business since it doesn't concern them it wouldn't be an issue.

Hello, but it is as many Americans on ATS (although none that I converse daily with on a working level) seem to take a high ground on this issue - I really wouldn't normally even post on this if it wasn't for some of the posts on this thread. Thank you, if the aforementioned posters would mind their business (this is a global site) then it wouldn't be an issue, would it?

Global site? Yes.
Thread is for a National issue.

The door is back behind you on the left.

reply to post by wonderworld


Good post Wonderworld. A star and a for you!

Originally posted by rlnochance
reply to post by Scytherius

 

I understand your point of view but there's more at hand here than what's on the face.
Make no mistake.. this isn't about a bunch of common sense laws.

It's about A) contriving a situation which has gotten americans killed (ATF fast n furious)
B) using said situation to implement new laws which have nothing to do with the actual problem
C) for the express purpose of testing the power of the executive branch

This is nothing less than the executive branch dipping it's toes in the waters of dictatorship to see how cold the water is. If they don't get sufficient pushback on this, then Obama will just bypass congress/the people and implement his own rules based on whatever guides him (bankers, the UN, aliens, the CIA, all of the above) which we already know will be outright draconian based on his voting history and public/private comments on the matter.

Executive power MUST be restrained - that is the purpose of our construct of government. In this case, this represents yet another gross overstep by the executive branch.

This bears repeating. It can't be said often enough or loudly enough.

It's precisely what I see happening .

Now, congress is dabbling with the notion of giving Obama the power to completely bypass... wait for it... congress itself!

They're appearing to cut their own throats in this budgetary infighting, and I have to wonder two things: 1)WHY are they trying to make themselves irrelevant, and 2) WHERE will it stop?

These executive orders are getting entirely out of hand, and being misused for purposes they were never intended for.

If Congress doesn't grow a pair and put this mess in check, it WILL fall to the People to get a handle on it - and I don't think anyone is going to be very happy with the way that goes.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle

We have not been taken over.... that is just silly.

Maybe not completely, but we are WELL on our way.

There is plenty of resources here in America that people could use.

Did you know there is more natural gas here than in many parts of the world - Including the middle east?

Did you know we have major amounts of oil here in the united states?

An excellent rationale to explain one of the reasons for the takeover.

I have had the privlage of traveling all over the USA and have spoken to many different ethnic groups.

You know what they all say, everyone I have talked to?

They say that America is the only place in the world where they can be truly free. So if anything, we offer true freedom without extreme control.

Don't look behind you - that's changing rapidly. Something is gaining on us.

But - this is off track from the origional issue of gun regulation, so I appologize to the OP.

It IS relevant, in a peripheral sort of way. It's the very heart of the gun control debate.

We are not rounding up ethinc groups and throwing them in camps, we are not killing millions of people in our own country for any type of political power - which is typical of any dictator that takes office.

Why has this not happened yet?

"yet" is the operative word there. Everything has a beginning. Nothing starts, having already always been.

Because those would be power grabbers know they can not accomplish this in our country, since we are armed.

More important than arms is the willingness to employ them, That seems to be a deficiency in modern America, and it's one that the power brokers are exploiting as we speak. If folks were actually willing to go that far, they'd be screaming bloody murder in droves in DC this very day. I don't see that.... anywhere. If people are not even willing to use their voices first, to get up in a Congress Critter's face and tell him how it's gonna be, you know damn well they're just going to roll over when they come to enforce Obama's edicts, and take their guns.

I don't see sufficient outrage at what is going on, or hear loud enough voices, to indicate that Americans are in fact Americans any more.

Once that happens, as it appears to be doing right now, gun control or possession is a moot point. NO ONE will go to arms who has not first tried to exercise their voice, and too damned few are exercising that voice. Granted, it wouldn't matter in the slightest if they did - the government has demonstrated over the last ten years or so a supreme willingness to ignore that voice any how. The point is, it's not even being voiced any more.

But, let them take away our firearms and I promise you that we will be only steps away from a full blown dictatorship.

We're already damn near there, and they even let us keep our guns as a security blanket while they did it. They KNEW those weapons would never be put to fair use from the reactions - or lack thereof - of our voices.

Originally posted by something wicked

Because I'd rather talk to someone than shoot them? Is that a fair answer? If you shoot a representative of your government you will be shot yourself if apprehended at the scene or face a very long sentence, is that solving the issue?

I'd rather talk than shoot, too, but if they don't want to talk, I perfectly willing to entertain them.

Indeed, a little shooting here and there WILL solve the issue for those "representatives of government" who come to deliver the coup de gras.

For HIM, the issue will be settled with an awful finality.

Whether I'm killed in the exchange matters nary a bit, and won't prevent the action from occurring for a few folks who are around who still have their 'nads intact.

Once they've cleared those few out, they'll own the country outright, and not a single one of the dead, on either side, will give even the slightest damn about it at that point.

Only the living will live under the boot heel.

Originally posted by wonderworld

Originally posted by olliemc84

Originally posted by obzerver
hm no guns wer all screwed it was a nice try trying to get away from england but i gess there is magik we just cant soon we will be slaves to what ever attacks us whit black dont matter wer defenceless no neet to stock up probly cometo your house and take it ill like red shackles or to die fast i realy dont want to live in a gods land government

Huh??

Oh now that wasnt nice to "obzerver" a bit funny so I'm bad too.

He did have a good point though.

Yes there was a point there but it hurt my eyes reading it LOL.

What is incredible to me is that will all the BS going on in this country and all the money we (America) is hemorrhaging, lawmakers have to attack the most superficial issues and don't dig in and rid the country of true issues. Bankers should be rounded up and put on trial, homosexuals should be LEFT ALONE, the two "war on's" should be ended, I can go on and on and on. But they make moves to infuriate law abiding citizens to just hide real issues that they can never fix. I truly believe that we are in for epic times, and I hope everyone is stocking up on food, guns and ammunition.

Originally posted by nenothtu

More important than arms is the willingness to employ them, That seems to be a deficiency in modern America, and it's one that the power brokers are exploiting as we speak. If folks were actually willing to go that far, they'd be screaming bloody murder in droves in DC this very day. I don't see that.... anywhere. If people are not even willing to use their voices first, to get up in a Congress Critter's face and tell him how it's gonna be, you know damn well they're just going to roll over when they come to enforce Obama's edicts, and take their guns.

I don't see sufficient outrage at what is going on, or hear loud enough voices, to indicate that Americans are in fact Americans any more.

Once that happens, as it appears to be doing right now, gun control or possession is a moot point. NO ONE will go to arms who has not first tried to exercise their voice, and too damned few are exercising that voice. Granted, it wouldn't matter in the slightest if they did - the government has demonstrated over the last ten years or so a supreme willingness to ignore that voice any how. The point is, it's not even being voiced any more.

edit on 2011/7/14 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

I think people have given up on their voices. They remember how the massive protests against the wars as well as the bailouts were ignored by our gov't as well as the media. Voices are ignored, protests only work if your 'representatives' actually give a # about you. Letters to your congressman ... they don't even see them. (I worked for a senator back in the 90's. I was the one answering the letters). People are finally, more and more, beginning to see how utterly corrupt the system is. We all knew the government was corrupt, but I think many are now beginning to see how bad it really is.

Many people are waiting for something. They don't know what, but something big seems to be coming. It could almost be felt looking over your shoulder, we just don't know what it is yet. We are not yet at the point of armed rebellion, though I fear it won't be long before we Americans have some very tough choices to make.

I don't think it's going to start like some movie. It's going to be a slow process growing in violence as time continues until a breaking point is reached and all hell breaks loose. A failing economy, unemployment, increasing crime as families choose between feeding their kids or breaking the law, violence, government crackdowns and increasing oppression, then .... .... ....

Americans didn't buy millions of guns before Obama took control because they thought everything was going to be ok. We all sensed something ... something that many others are feeling now. The time is not now, though I fear the breaking point my not be far off.