First round of Obama's Executive Gun Control laws announced

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
...snip...Studies have shown that cities that made it harder to get guns – crime increased drastically.
While cities that made it easier to get guns – crime dropped drastically. ...snip...

Kennesaw, GA, a city near me, made it a law that every household must own a gun in 1982. After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74% compared to 1981, and fell another 45% in 1983 compared to 1982.

In comparison, Morton Grove, IL became the first town in the U.S. to pass a flat out ban on the possession of handguns within the town limits by anyone except police and active duty military during the performance of their official duties in 1981. "Morton Grove’s relatively low crime rate went up by over 15% immediately after enactment of the ban (12% more than surrounding areas) and has held pretty steady at just a tad below the national average ever since. There has been no statistical indication of the handgun ban having any positive effect."

You can read more at:

• www.freerepublic.com...
  
• www.rense.com...
  
• www.firearmscoalition.org...
  

From that last link:

After the enactment of the firearms mandate in 1982, it took 15 years before there was a murder committed with a firearm in the town.

Originally posted by lunatux
reply to post by butcherguy

 

There is no UN plan to disarm us. Although our silly childish obsession with firearms, no doubt, amuses the UN and the rest of the civilized world to no end.

So the UN has a Disarmament Commission just for the lulz??? Is that what you're saying?
Second line...

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
reply to post by Threegirls

 

Lets suppose for a minute that one day your government just stopped listening to you and started doing whatever they wanted without the peoples consent. Basicaly you are a slave with a butter knife if you dont have a gun. What do you think the elite people listen to? Power. Thats is it. Take away a citizens power and you take away his authority. Take away his authority and you take away his freedom. Sounds eerily faimliar does it not? Looks, to me, like we need a (insert bannable offense here).

MOTF!

edit on 12-7-2011 by MessOnTheFED! because: (no reason given)

............Lets suppose?

It must be a nice rock you're living under.

Originally posted by Finalized

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
...snip...Studies have shown that cities that made it harder to get guns – crime increased drastically.
While cities that made it easier to get guns – crime dropped drastically. ...snip...

Kennesaw, GA, a city near me, made it a law that every household must own a gun in 1982. After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74% compared to 1981, and fell another 45% in 1983 compared to 1982.

In comparison, Morton Grove, IL became the first town in the U.S. to pass a flat out ban on the possession of handguns within the town limits by anyone except police and active duty military during the performance of their official duties in 1981. "Morton Grove’s relatively low crime rate went up by over 15% immediately after enactment of the ban (12% more than surrounding areas) and has held pretty steady at just a tad below the national average ever since. There has been no statistical indication of the handgun ban having any positive effect."

You can read more at:

• www.freerepublic.com...
  
• www.rense.com...
  
• www.firearmscoalition.org...
  

From that last link:

After the enactment of the firearms mandate in 1982, it took 15 years before there was a murder committed with a firearm in the town.

edit on 7/13/2011 by Finalized because: (no reason given)

edit on 7/13/2011 by Finalized because: Added Morton Grove, IL

Thank you for finding this study for us.

I knew I had read that before, just didn't know what the numbers were.

Thanks so much!

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle

Originally posted by Threegirls
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Why would that be such a bad thing?

I have never understood the American attachment to to the right to bear arms, what positive benefits has it brought to you when compared to the many disadvantages? This is serious question, I only wish to understand. I know of plenty people in Britain who have guns and adhere to the very strict gun laws. Do you not have the same laws governing your right to arms, if not why not?

American’s owning guns is a very good thing.

It prevents dictators from taking over – it is the last round of defense.

Also, if a foreign country decided to invade us, they wouldn’t get very far if the majority of the population had guns.

If China decided to invade the UK – I don’t believe the UK would stand up very well against such an assault.

However, let them try to do that in America, and I promise they wouldn’t get very far.



Also – bad people will get guns…. While people who abide by the laws are restricted on obtaining them. So, if the innocent do not have a means to defend their selves against an aggressor who will get weapons no matter what, then the bad people win.

Studies have shown that cities that made it harder to get guns – crime increased drastically.
While cities that made it easier to get guns – crime dropped drastically.

Firstly i love guns. its a form of self defense BUT your logic is flawed

you say " it prevents dictators from taking over "

have you looked around lately??? there is more than one way to skin a yank it would seem. you have been taken over without firing a single shot. your country is broke and a joke. nobody wants to invade because there is nothing you have that anybody wants.

well maybe "the big bang theory" but thats it,

We have not been taken over.... that is just silly.

The people who are in office and power have been elected by the people of the United States of America - although I don't like many of the people who have been elected, they have still been elected.

There is plenty of resources here in America that people could use.

Did you know there is more natural gas here than in many parts of the world - Including the middle east?

Did you know we have major amounts of oil here in the united states?

I personally think the reason we are not using those natural resources is because we are using up everyone elses natural resources first. That way when the rest of the world begins to run out of their resources, because they are selling them off to every other country in the world, we will be sitting pretty with an abundance of natural resources at our disposal.

Your post comes across as rude, as you have basically said the USA is a worthless country with nothing to offer anyone.... If this was the case why do people risk their lives and famlies to move here?

I have had the privlage of traveling all over the USA and have spoken to many different ethnic groups.

You know what they all say, everyone I have talked to?

They say that America is the only place in the world where they can be truly free. So if anything, we offer true freedom without extreme control.

But - this is off track from the origional issue of gun regulation, so I appologize to the OP.

I don't see a single flaw in what I have stated.

We are not rounding up ethinc groups and throwing them in camps, we are not killing millions of people in our own country for any type of political power - which is typical of any dictator that takes office.

Why has this not happened yet?

Because those would be power grabbers know they can not accomplish this in our country, since we are armed.

But, let them take away our firearms and I promise you that we will be only steps away from a full blown dictatorship.

Have you travelled anywhere outside of America? How many western countries are doing the things you mention above? Please answer the question as you seem to suggest it's because you are allowed to own a gun where many (most) other western countries don't. This isn't a criticism of your country but please, there is no need to defend it at the expense of every other country - if it works for you, cool, keeps the arms dealers warm in winter.

Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle

Originally posted by Threegirls
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Why would that be such a bad thing?

I have never understood the American attachment to to the right to bear arms, what positive benefits has it brought to you when compared to the many disadvantages? This is serious question, I only wish to understand. I know of plenty people in Britain who have guns and adhere to the very strict gun laws. Do you not have the same laws governing your right to arms, if not why not?

American’s owning guns is a very good thing.

It prevents dictators from taking over – it is the last round of defense.

Whilst I totally agree with you here, it does seem a bit late right? Your country is already taken over, and has been for quite some time it seems?

I'm a big supporter of 2nd amendment rights, but, yeah, we're already occupied. The israelis run this town..and, for those of you who have been flying, and either gotten yourselves molested or irradiated, in case you're wondering where TSA got the idea for that, look back to the israelis..
that's how they treat the palestinians, every day.

reply to post by something wicked


Most here don't really care what other countries do, in regards to gun laws.

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle

Originally posted by Threegirls
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Why would that be such a bad thing?

I have never understood the American attachment to to the right to bear arms, what positive benefits has it brought to you when compared to the many disadvantages? This is serious question, I only wish to understand. I know of plenty people in Britain who have guns and adhere to the very strict gun laws. Do you not have the same laws governing your right to arms, if not why not?

American’s owning guns is a very good thing.

It prevents dictators from taking over – it is the last round of defense.

Also, if a foreign country decided to invade us, they wouldn’t get very far if the majority of the population had guns.

If China decided to invade the UK – I don’t believe the UK would stand up very well against such an assault.

However, let them try to do that in America, and I promise they wouldn’t get very far.



Also – bad people will get guns…. While people who abide by the laws are restricted on obtaining them. So, if the innocent do not have a means to defend their selves against an aggressor who will get weapons no matter what, then the bad people win.

Studies have shown that cities that made it harder to get guns – crime increased drastically.
While cities that made it easier to get guns – crime dropped drastically.

Firstly i love guns. its a form of self defense BUT your logic is flawed

you say " it prevents dictators from taking over "

have you looked around lately??? there is more than one way to skin a yank it would seem. you have been taken over without firing a single shot. your country is broke and a joke. nobody wants to invade because there is nothing you have that anybody wants.

well maybe "the big bang theory" but thats it,

We have not been taken over.... that is just silly.

The people who are in office and power have been elected by the people of the United States of America - although I don't like many of the people who have been elected, they have still been elected.

There is plenty of resources here in America that people could use.

Did you know there is more natural gas here than in many parts of the world - Including the middle east?

Did you know we have major amounts of oil here in the united states?

I personally think the reason we are not using those natural resources is because we are using up everyone elses natural resources first. That way when the rest of the world begins to run out of their resources, because they are selling them off to every other country in the world, we will be sitting pretty with an abundance of natural resources at our disposal.

Your post comes across as rude, as you have basically said the USA is a worthless country with nothing to offer anyone.... If this was the case why do people risk their lives and famlies to move here?

I have had the privlage of traveling all over the USA and have spoken to many different ethnic groups.

You know what they all say, everyone I have talked to?

They say that America is the only place in the world where they can be truly free. So if anything, we offer true freedom without extreme control.

But - this is off track from the origional issue of gun regulation, so I appologize to the OP.

I don't see a single flaw in what I have stated.

We are not rounding up ethinc groups and throwing them in camps, we are not killing millions of people in our own country for any type of political power - which is typical of any dictator that takes office.

Why has this not happened yet?

Because those would be power grabbers know they can not accomplish this in our country, since we are armed.

But, let them take away our firearms and I promise you that we will be only steps away from a full blown dictatorship.

Have you travelled anywhere outside of America? How many western countries are doing the things you mention above? Please answer the question as you seem to suggest it's because you are allowed to own a gun where many (most) other western countries don't. This isn't a criticism of your country but please, there is no need to defend it at the expense of every other country - if it works for you, cool, keeps the arms dealers warm in winter.

edit on 13-7-2011 by something wicked because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-7-2011 by something wicked because: typo

Yes - I have traveled outside of America.

The statement was referencing historical events - I thought that would be obvious, so I appologize for the confusion.

The point is that the countries where the people are not allowed to own firearms is more likley to be attacked by a foreign power - more to the point, they would be more easily invaded by a foreign power; or taken over by a radical government group.

I don't know why this is so difficult to get across, as history has shown this is the case.

That's why the old expression "Those who don't learn from their past are doomed to repeat it" is so very true.

Anyone who would deny that the people owning firearms, or the means to truly defend theirselves, is a good idea obviously has not learned a great deal from history.

This fact is undeniable, unarguable - it is a theme that has been repeated throughout history - over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by something wicked

 

Most here don't really care what other countries do, in regards to gun laws.

And that is an absolutely fair comment and I feel likewise....... but then many on ATS seem to feel that it gives some kind of superiority to have a gun, or several guns, or an arsenal of guns.

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by something wicked

 

Most here don't really care what other countries do, in regards to gun laws.

And that is an absolutely fair comment and I feel likewise....... but then many on ATS seem to feel that it gives some kind of superiority to have a gun, or several guns, or an arsenal of guns.

It is not a complex.
He have the right to do so. The US Fed Govt is trampling on it.

It sounds as if you have never had the right. How can one miss what they never had?

Originally posted by Threegirls
reply to post by MentorsRiddle

 

Hiya MentorsRiddle,

Thankyou for your reply. Your Presidents acts without consulting or regarding congress, does he not?
I suggest you are not so far from dictatorship as may be thought. We have the same problem. You have a point about invasion however even without such a defence UK has not been invaded and is not as likely to happen to UK, we have nothing anyone wants. Guns will not defend US against bio weapons or terrorists or nukes which would be the preferred method of attack it seems.

About bad people, occasionally, bad people get guns in UK and the results are horrific. How can you guarantee that you would have a gun on you for defense? Most victims of crime do not. Having guns so widely available as in US makes them easier for criminals to get. They are far more likely to use them, the crime we have in the UK is far more survivable due to lack of guns. I am not convinced therefore that you have an advantage.

(1) Obama is a marxist...period.

(2) The right to bear arms, as written in our Constitution, is there to keep the public safe from tyrannical control. There was this fellow, King George was his name I believe... Enough said...I think you get the picture...

(3) Of the areas where strict gun control HAS BEEN enacted, violent crime and home invasion has skyrocketed. That is not an opinion, but a verifiable FACT. Banning guns only embrazens hard core criminals to do their thing.

(4) As I recall,some nation DID try to invade the U.K and they would have SUCEEDED if a bunch of gun-toting Americans hadn't crossed the Atlantic to kick their asses on your behalf. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, it was those SAME gun-toting Americans that stood between you and communism SINCE that war.

If we lose our rights to bear arms for the defense of the people against tyranny, I can guarantee you that the UK will cease to exist as you know it. Why? Because a people beaten into submission by their own government WILL NOT raise a finger to help their neighbor. They'll be too busy licking their own wounds to worry about yours...no matter HOW BAD you have it.

So appreciate OUR freedom... Because OUR freedom is why you have YOUR freedom...period.

Originally posted by RealAmericanPatriot

Originally posted by Threegirls
reply to post by MentorsRiddle

 

Hiya MentorsRiddle,

Thankyou for your reply. Your Presidents acts without consulting or regarding congress, does he not?
I suggest you are not so far from dictatorship as may be thought. We have the same problem. You have a point about invasion however even without such a defence UK has not been invaded and is not as likely to happen to UK, we have nothing anyone wants. Guns will not defend US against bio weapons or terrorists or nukes which would be the preferred method of attack it seems.

About bad people, occasionally, bad people get guns in UK and the results are horrific. How can you guarantee that you would have a gun on you for defense? Most victims of crime do not. Having guns so widely available as in US makes them easier for criminals to get. They are far more likely to use them, the crime we have in the UK is far more survivable due to lack of guns. I am not convinced therefore that you have an advantage.

(1) Obama is a marxist...period.

(2) The right to bear arms, as written in our Constitution, is there to keep the public safe from tyrannical control. There was this fellow, King George was his name I believe... Enough said...I think you get the picture...

(3) Of the areas where strict gun control HAS BEEN enacted, violent crime and home invasion has skyrocketed. That is not an opinion, but a verifiable FACT. Banning guns only embrazens hard core criminals to do their thing.

(4) As I recall,some nation DID try to invade the U.K and they would have SUCEEDED if a bunch of gun-toting Americans hadn't crossed the Atlantic to kick their asses on your behalf. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, it was those SAME gun-toting Americans that stood between you and communism SINCE that war.

If we lose our rights to bear arms for the defense of the people against tyranny, I can guarantee you that the UK will cease to exist as you know it. Why? Because a people beaten into submission by their own government WILL NOT raise a finger to help their neighbor. They'll be too busy licking their own wounds to worry about yours...no matter HOW BAD you have it.

So appreciate OUR freedom... Because OUR freedom is why you have YOUR freedom...period.

I do beleive this is one of my most favorite posts I have ever read on this forum.

Your thoughts makes me feel pride for this country.

No matter how ugly America appears to other countries, those that live here see the beauty of it.

Yes we have our problems, and most American's don't like how our government acts like a bully outside of the our country - but we have solved more problems than we have caused.

We have defended those who could not defend theirselves....

Love this post.

Originally posted by pyrodude
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

This is an outrage! Woulldnt the rest of the world love a disarmed america. Well come on down to the south, I wont be disarmed!

They can come up North too. Mine arent going anywhere! I will always have a constitutional right to defend my family, hunt for food and collect family heirloom guns, if I wish to. Ammo is next on the registry. With increased crime along the border more average citizens need protection from thugs. These things bring my blood to a boil. There are more serious issues going on in Congress that will start a civil war here in the US and they are aware all hell will break loose soon.

Originally posted by wonderworld

Originally posted by pyrodude
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

This is an outrage! Woulldnt the rest of the world love a disarmed america. Well come on down to the south, I wont be disarmed!

They can come up North too. Mine arent going anywhere! I will always have a constitutional right to defend my family, hunt for food and collect family heirloom guns, if I wish to. Ammo is next on the registry. With increased crime along the border more average citizens need protection from thugs. These things bring my blood to a boil. There are more serious issues going on in Congress that will start a civil war here in the US and they are aware all hell will break loose soon.

Personally - I have thought for years that TPTB are trying to cause a civil war in America.

Once that occurs America will be too weak to help other countries defend theirselves.

Then, once that has been acomplished, they could settle america down by having a foreign enemy to attack us - which would reunify America to defend against said country.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle

Originally posted by wonderworld

Originally posted by pyrodude
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

This is an outrage! Woulldnt the rest of the world love a disarmed america. Well come on down to the south, I wont be disarmed!

They can come up North too. Mine arent going anywhere! I will always have a constitutional right to defend my family, hunt for food and collect family heirloom guns, if I wish to. Ammo is next on the registry. With increased crime along the border more average citizens need protection from thugs. These things bring my blood to a boil. There are more serious issues going on in Congress that will start a civil war here in the US and they are aware all hell will break loose soon.

Personally - I have thought for years that TPTB are trying to cause a civil war in America.

Once that occurs America will be too weak to help other countries defend theirselves.

Then, once that has been acomplished, they could settle america down by having a foreign enemy to attack us - which would reunify America to defend against said country.

Think Cloward and Piven. They are working towards a civil war.
At least a collapse.

Huh, turns out Obama's "paper trail" executive order might just be blatantly illegal.

No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.

As per the Firearm Owner Protection Act www.law.cornell.edu...

Either he's failing miserably with his research or he doesnt care.

Then there's the Southwest reporting issue that violates "equal protection."

Obama's shredding all the little bits that Bush didnt have a chance to shred.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Huh, turns out Obama's "paper trail" executive order might just be blatantly illegal.

No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.

As per the Firearm Owner Protection Act www.law.cornell.edu...

Either he's failing miserably with his research or he doesnt care.

He probably doesn't care - he seems like a man who is full of himself. That's just my opinion though.

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by something wicked

 

Most here don't really care what other countries do, in regards to gun laws.

And that is an absolutely fair comment and I feel likewise....... but then many on ATS seem to feel that it gives some kind of superiority to have a gun, or several guns, or an arsenal of guns.

It's not a superiority issue. The issue is that whenever a gun topic comes up we have a bunch of non-americans come in and start with their 'silly americans and their guns' comments and insults, acting as if they are somehow more civilized than us. We then feel the need to defend ourselves and our rights that others have given up. Sometimes I think it's really an issue of 'if we can't have them then nobody should'.

I'll admit we Americans do have a love affair with our weapons, but if they would mind their business since it doesn't concern them it wouldn't be an issue.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Obama has been very, very close to committing Treason like when he Sided with foreign powers Against Arizona. As far as his new executive order I assumed it couldn’t be used unless Martial Law was enacted. In that case we see all these nasties pop up and take our freedoms away.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

National Security Act of 1947 allows for the strategic relocation of industries, services, government and other essential economic activities, and to rationalize the requirements for manpower, resources and production facilities.

1950 Defense Production Act gives the President sweeping powers over all aspects of the economy.

Act of August 29, 1916 authorizes the Secretary of the Army, in time of war, to take possession of any transportation system for transporting troops, material, or any other purpose related to the emergency. Expertise analyzing census
International Emergency Economic Powers Act enables the President to seize the property of a foreign country or national. These powers were transferred to FEMA in a sweeping consolidation in 1979.

God forbid Martial Law isn’t enacted during the Presidential campaign or it will be stopped.

reply to post by MentorsRiddle


Exactly. In the old days when People carried 6 shooters on their hip, Society was much more civil than today.

We are taught by movies and modern Culture this is not true, however, if one is to actually study History, and diaries of the People living in that time, one will see the truth. People were much more respectful to others simply because Everyone was armed.

On a side not, their intelligence and diction was more advanced as well, as any perusal of comparison between modern dictionaries and the older dictionaries attest to. The dictionaries are getting smaller. A correlation can be made between intelligence of the population and the amount of tyranny the Population will put up with.