Aliens will be found by 2031 - Russian Astronomers say

Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by jonnywhite

Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by Phage
I'm pretty sure that when the full context of what Finklestein had to say is published it will be that he thinks we may receive an ET signal, not a face to face or even a two way conversation.

Our increasing ability to detect "earthlike" planets means we can concentrate the search for such a signal to more likely areas.

edit on 6/28/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

I wonder why he has given possible physical descriptions then......

Are you one of the (arrogant) people that feel that 'There are no aliens. Us humans are the only intelligent life in the universe."

Just asking....

No he's just one of those people that's reasonable. Most people on this forum don't require reason or facts to back up their statements. Do you think the aliens will come to us in their spaceships? How? How will they cross the vast gulfs between us and them? How did they even know about us to intersect our home? And we can't even speculate about quantum technologies. Speculation is fun, but it doesn't advance the topic. We need to invest in radio receivers and we should broaden the frequencies we're looking at. We should also look more at light itself, or the signs of laser light. We just need to do more of what we're currently doing in a more expansive and ambitious way. Columbus when he crossed the ocean didn't ask, "Hey, maybe we should wait until they build steam powered ships or even airplanes. It would save time and we could put money into other activities." He sailed! We have to too. We have to use our current technology.

I also think we should better research Helium-3 and nuclear fusion so we one day can mine it on the moon. But I"d like to know more about how a low sunspot sun is going to impact space activities. Space.com recently had an article about a potential minimum on its way.

edit on 28-6-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

I understand your point, but:

Never feel that the vastness of space( which I know plenty about, as I am obsessed with the cosmos) is so great that no species could ever traverse it...... That's another 'human arrogant' complex.

If WE can't travel that far, then no one else can
If WE can't survive on planets that are closer to the sun, then no one else can..
If WE can't survive without oxygen, then no one else can

"We are but a pale blue dot...." - Carl Sagan

We are a species that can barely traverse to our moon, let alone leave our solar system.

We have not scratched the surface in the 'search' for extraterrestrial life throughout the universe.

Its too far for THEM to travel? Travel from where? They could be on the moon...

and just because WE don't have longer lifespans (more than 110 years), doesn't mean that no one else does. Therefore, travel from 2.3 million life years may not be to THEM what it would be to us.

You're well intentioned. I salute that. But whether aliens can travel through space at far greater speeds or not doesn't matter to me until I see it. It doesn't advance the topic because we won't know until we know. If you want to help science don't come into the lab with a bible or a ufo magazine or a "What you're doing is pointless!" Try going back to the day Columbus set sail and tell him, "Hey, if you wait a while they'll have steam power and airplanes so why are you wasting your time with these sail boats?" Come to the lab with actual facts and mathematics that can gain us insight into the actual world we live in.

Again, debating the existence of god doesn't get us anywhere until we have tangibles that can be reproduced in a lab. FTL-travel is the same deal. Come with progress, not a bible.

We have to go on what we know today. That's because it works. If you want to write science fiction or talk about something else then you're fine to do that but don't confuse yourself.

Said the same thing about year 2000 and about 2012.

reply to post by jonnywhite



True, however it is more likely that millions of alien races exist (in the Milky Way galaxy alone) than not.

Us humans also tend to feel that for it to be true that aliens exist, then they need to 'prove' themselves to us.

Think about it: we exist, but do we go around the universe 'proving' ourselves to all other possible species?

No. Not worth the time nor the energy.

Most likely, an alien race will only visit Earth if we have a resource that they are interested in or if they have interest in cohabiting our planet because they have reason to exodus from theirs.

Other than that, US HUMANS are not that 'important enough' for a casual meet and greet.

reply to post by ButterCookie

True, however it is more likely that millions of alien races exist (in the Milky Way galaxy alone) than not.

how do you work that out? you don't have the required information to make that assumption.

1. you would need to know what the odds are of life starting on a planet
2. you would need to know what the odds are for intelligent life evolving on a planet with life

you dont know either. The odds could be 200 billion to 1 which would make us the one and only civilization in the galaxy.

The factual answer is we dont know if theres any other intelligent life in our galaxy. Anything else is speculation.

reply to post by CountDrac

This looks like a soft disclosure to me. People are being conditioned to believe on aliens with some of the aliens looking exactly like humans. The date being announced is 20 years away from now but the real purpose is just to plant the seed of human aliens into the consciousness of man so that if they appear in a few months from now, we already expect them to look like that just like what the scientists have said. Humans will not be that shocked anymore to know that aliens can also look like humans.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

True, however it is more likely that millions of alien races exist (in the Milky Way galaxy alone) than not.

Us humans also tend to feel that for it to be true that aliens exist, then they need to 'prove' themselves to us.

Think about it: we exist, but do we go around the universe 'proving' ourselves to all other possible species?

No. Not worth the time nor the energy.

Most likely, an alien race will only visit Earth if we have a resource that they are interested in or if they have interest in cohabiting our planet because they have reason to exodus from theirs.

Other than that, US HUMANS are not that 'important enough' for a casual meet and greet.

Based on what we know today, any civilization that can cross the cosmos at lightspeed or faster is beyond imagining. They would consume stars like we consume bacteria in our food. I have no idea whether we could notice them or not, but a civilization that can harness the energy of galaxy(s) is something I would think would be hard to miss! But I'll just assume for you that we're missing em. But then where're they? Perhaps nobody has attained FTL or something of that nature and they're all looking out at night, wondering..... Or maybe they all killed themselves when they attained the power of numerous stars? That seems more likely to me than concocting fantastic scenarios where galaxies are eaten up and we're looking in the other direction wondering where the aliens are. Maybe my expectations are wildly off. No way to know. We'll know when we know, until then we should do what we know and not waste precious time on fruitless adventures.

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

True, however it is more likely that millions of alien races exist (in the Milky Way galaxy alone) than not.

how do you work that out? you don't have the required information to make that assumption.

1. you would need to know what the odds are of life starting on a planet
2. you would need to know what the odds are for intelligent life evolving on a planet with life

you dont know either. The odds could be 200 billion to 1 which would make us the one and only civilization in the galaxy.

The factual answer is we dont know if theres any other life or intelligent life in our galaxy

edit on 28-6-2011 by yeti101 because: (no reason given)

GLAD you asked!!

What is the Drake Equation?

Is there a way to estimate the number of technologically advanced civilizations that might exist in our Galaxy?

While working at the National Radio Astronomy Observatory in Green Bank, West Virginia, Dr. Frank Drake conceived a means to mathematically estimate the number of worlds that might harbor beings with technology sufficient to communicate across the vast gulfs of interstellar space. The Drake Equation, as it came to be known, was formulated in 1961 and is generally accepted by the scientific community.

N = R* fp ne fl fi fc L

where,

N = The number of communicative civilizations
R* = The rate of formation of suitable stars (stars such as our Sun)
fp = The fraction of those stars with planets. (Current evidence indicates that planetary systems may be common for stars like the Sun.)
ne = The number of Earth-like worlds per planetary system
fl = The fraction of those Earth-like planets where life actually develops
fi = The fraction of life sites where intelligence develops
fc = The fraction of communicative planets (those on which electromagnetic communications technology develops)
L = The "lifetime" of communicating civilizations

Frank Drake's own current solution to the Drake Equation estimates 10,000 communicative civilizations in the Milky Way. Dr. Drake, who serves on the SETI League's advisory board, has personally endorsed SETI's planned all-sky survey.

Even today we have found some planets that are considered similar to Earth. So what I'm wondering is, with these planets at least 20 lightyears away, how could scientists possibly determine if there were life on these planets? Never mind 2 legged beings with 2 arms and head like us or wether they have the same skin color.

Heck, we don't even know if there's life on some of Saturn's and Jupiter's moons yet. The only way we could find out if there were life in these other star systems if we sent someone there to look for themselves - even if that would be Artificial Intelligence or not. That's the only way I can see it happening in the 20 years. Except if they decided to turn up and bring their own American Football team for the Superbowl to show how superior and advanced they are compared to us

reply to post by ButterCookie


you don't know the numbers to put in that equation. Neither does drake or anyone else. The last time i did the drake equation the answer came out as 1 civilization every 42 galaxies.

the 1st time drake did his equation he came up with the answer 10. Even though this is hypothetical it doesn't suit SETIs purpose to have that few because nobody would fund them. So he's "altered" his numbers to give an answer of 10,000 making detection & funding a bit more likely. You need to play the optimist card in seti otherwise you wont get cash to fund it.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
That guy is a bit...whats the term...oh, right, "Touched" in the head.

Good entertainment though...but ya, he has been debunked 7 ways to tuesday...the only thing unique about him really is his strange cause of death..but, if he was nuts, then suddenly its not that strange...

So he's debunked, so he's a lier? What was the smart reason behind this so unsmart conclusion? Debunkers or skeptics don't make it less correct, it is somewhere between - may be right, may be not, may some of the things be right, not all. Calling it a lie because some air head skeptic decided so with no real theory or explanation other than to debunk but not give anything in the research.. please

And the claim of that Russian seems like me saying in 2015 we will find aliens because our technology goes so fast (not!). It sounds like an optimistic opinion..

I agree with him. This is how Alien contact will be made very soon:

Comet Elenin will pass very close to Earth causing a magnetic pole flip. The resulting failure of the magnetic pole during the flip will cause human brains to be wiped out just like a magnet over a computer harddrive. There will be people put into space to avoid the event, and the royal families will be put into deep underground bunkers with their own magnetic field to maintain their brains.

The rest of Earth will be babbling zombies as has happened before....which led to why different languages erupted around Earth, after the last magnetic flip.

So the people who set themselves up to survive the event will come out and declare they are alien 'Gods' from another planet and will teach the zombied world how to do everything again. Thus Alien Contact is made....

No one would know it wasn't otherwise.

Originally posted by Pervius
I agree with him. This is how Alien contact will be made very soon:

Comet Elenin will pass very close to Earth causing a magnetic pole flip. The resulting failure of the magnetic pole during the flip will cause human brains to be wiped out just like a magnet over a computer harddrive. There will be people put into space to avoid the event, and the royal families will be put into deep underground bunkers with their own magnetic field to maintain their brains.

The rest of Earth will be babbling zombies as has happened before....which led to why different languages erupted around Earth, after the last magnetic flip.

So the people who set themselves up to survive the event will come out and declare they are alien 'Gods' from another planet and will teach the zombied world how to do everything again. Thus Alien Contact is made....

No one would know it wasn't otherwise.

Total bulls---

however

What an awesome concept for a movie!

Originally posted by Imtor

Originally posted by SaturnFX
That guy is a bit...whats the term...oh, right, "Touched" in the head.

Good entertainment though...but ya, he has been debunked 7 ways to tuesday...the only thing unique about him really is his strange cause of death..but, if he was nuts, then suddenly its not that strange...

So he's debunked,

More or less, ya.

so he's a lier?

Well, I didn't say he was a liar, he could simply be highly delusional...or ya, could be a liar.

I suspect...he was experimented on and was shown stuff that was distorted into what he eventually started claiming..but thats just a random speculation based in nothing (I have trouble considering the idea a person like him is lying the whole way through...I think there is a chance he believes his experience, however, the facts don't match his claims.

What was the smart reason behind this so unsmart conclusion?

Theres tons of threads here on ATS and of course the wider internet dealing with a piece by piece ripping apart of his claims and storys...its good to investigate the research done that counters his claims...that way you don't buy too much snake oil

Debunkers or skeptics don't make it less correct,

Actually, ya...they do.
If I claim I am Obama...a skeptic may debunk that...that makes the skeptic correct and me either a liar or a bit nuts...there is an objective truth to all things,

it is somewhere between - may be right, may be not, may some of the things be right, not all. Calling it a lie because some air head skeptic decided so with no real theory or explanation other than to debunk but not give anything in the research.. please

there may be elements of truth to his story, sure...however, in total, its been generally debunked
air head skeptic? you realize that by you being skeptical of skeptics...that makes you also a skeptic, right? get your pressure checked

You don't need to replace something with something...a skeptic simply picks apart what can be picked apart. this is known as falsificationism...rip down what can be ripped down, and anything left standing may lead towards the truth of the situation.

Feel free to believe him though, thats your choice..people enjoy believing in odd things..just its best not to put him forward as some sort of "proof" of anything beyond interesting people spinning interesting storys.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Well, I didn't say he was a liar, he could simply be highly delusional...or ya, could be a liar.

I suspect...he was experimented on and was shown stuff that was distorted into what he eventually started claiming..but thats just a random speculation based in nothing (I have trouble considering the idea a person like him is lying the whole way through...I think there is a chance he believes his experience, however, the facts don't match his claims.

You never know, Im not saying I believe wholeheartedly. But considering other employees have given similar descriptions.. it's rather possible.

Theres tons of threads here on ATS and of course the wider internet dealing with a piece by piece ripping apart of his claims and storys...its good to investigate the research done that counters his claims...that way you don't buy too much snake oil

And I didn't see any real evidence that he's lying other that claims that he's not ok with the brain and he's a lunatic. How do you know? Crazy people usually don't talk clearly he seemed quite sane on the videos.

Actually, ya...they do.
If I claim I am Obama...a skeptic may debunk that...that makes the skeptic correct and me either a liar or a bit nuts...there is an objective truth to all things,

What makes you think that if someone debunks something it is not or less correct ? While this debunking has no real evidence of why it is not so, just throwing in some natural explainations and that's the whole truth because they debunk it?! Now I see how skeptics think, they think they are some gods who tell the truth. And the pathetic part - they believe it is 100% lie, no such thing as 'could be true could be not'

you realize that by you being skeptical of skeptics...that makes you also a skeptic, right? get your pressure checked

Double negation makes plus, denying the denial means acceptance. I'm not a UFO believer but researcher, I stay between skepticism and full belief. Again I dont believe him fully but it definitely can't be dismissed as a total lie.

reply to post by OccamAssassin


There's also Dolphins and they're beginning to look into some types of birds being sentient beings capable of communication and abstract thought.

reply to post by Imtor

I stay between skepticism and full belief.

So do most children with respect to their beliefs in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. That's more or less like saying "Hi, I'm the weatherman, I'm always right" Gotta do better than that if you are in the least bit serious about REAL research and not just reading books and watching youtube.

Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
So do most children with respect to their beliefs in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. That's more or less like saying "Hi, I'm the weatherman, I'm always right" Gotta do better than that if you are in the least bit serious about REAL research and not just reading books and watching youtube.

It means I believe true UFO cases like: Objects seen by pilots who have enough experience to be ok with the brain and know what they see, objects seen by military like those who come forward to talk about the disabled missiles, objects observed and recorded by several witnesses, stories that match or are connected in a way and have dose of truth in them. If you question my research, I am taking the stories, claims, evidence and make and look for connections between them. I'm on the side of any real researcher who can distinguish FAKE from TRUE UFO or event, that means between skepticism and full believer.

Full believers believe nearly every UFO video they see on youtube - like you get every day a video -well sorry some cases are purely fake, they believe everything they hear or see. While I would make sure firstly if I saw an object - is not a plane, heli, Satellite as it happened with one video, etc.

Skeptics, on the other hand, are shallow and show nothing more than ignorance and 'this is fake because I think so'. It was in MANY cases where their claims were wrong and they don't contribute to finding the truth. Most of their claims are like - He's a lier - What makes you think so? Answer: just he's alier that's what makes me think so, I think so but why, how do you know? because I think so.. lol arguments.. Let's say some researchers at least make theories that make sense like Ancient Astronaut Theory - let's say this is a castle of sand or a castle of playing cards. What debunkers do is they just kick it and it collapses, that's it, nothing is build on their place, i,e empty shallow denial and that's all.

Originally posted by Imtor
It means I believe true UFO cases like: Objects seen by pilots who have enough experience to be ok with the brain and know what they see, objects seen by military like those who come forward to talk about the disabled missiles, objects observed and recorded by several witnesses, stories that match or are connected in a way and have dose of truth in them. If you question my research, I am taking the stories, claims, evidence and make and look for connections between them. I'm on the side of any real researcher who can distinguish FAKE from TRUE UFO or event, that means between skepticism and full believer.

Full believers believe nearly every UFO video they see on youtube - like you get every day a video -well sorry some cases are purely fake, they believe everything they hear or see. While I would make sure firstly if I saw an object - is not a plane, heli, Satellite as it happened with one video, etc.

Skeptics, on the other hand, are shallow and show nothing more than ignorance and 'this is fake because I think so'. It was in MANY cases where their claims were wrong and they don't contribute to finding the truth. Most of their claims are like - He's a lier - What makes you think so? Answer: just he's alier that's what makes me think so, I think so but why, how do you know? because I think so.. lol arguments.. Let's say some researchers at least make theories that make sense like Ancient Astronaut Theory - let's say this is a castle of sand or a castle of playing cards. What debunkers do is they just kick it and it collapses, that's it, nothing is build on their place, i,e empty shallow denial and that's all.

Thanks for the intelligent reply. I believe I misunderstood you and I do APOLOGIZE. I am quick to admit I am wrong, and I believe that I was mistaken. I am pretty much the exact same way you describe yourself as being, except I steer completely clear of "true belief". That spells wacko to me, and honestly, after about 35 years of actively following this subject since I was a very young person, 99% of the time, when someone states that they have spent time with ET aboard their space ship, they are either (a) selling books, video discs or lecture tours, having zero substantiation whatsoever, or (b) found to be mentally unsound, or they are unwilling to substantiate or verify their own mental well being after it's called into question.

I try and NEVER believe with respect to phenomenon, no matter how fascinating I find it to be. I speculate and stand ready to revise immediately if truth is found to upset my speculator's applecart.

I don't know if extraterrestrials are buzzing around the Earth's sky, or whether extratemporals are zipping in and out of dimensions we cannot, or simply do not know how to, access at this point.

The bottom line however is that we are fascinated by what we see being reported all over the planet. Is there REALLY any more an abundance of UFO activity these days as opposed to days past, or is it just the mass communications thing doing precisely what you would expect it to?

This is a question I never stop asking myself. Is it us up there? How far ahead of public release is the world's technology? Could it be that a discrete group of people including both the scientific community as well as extremely powerful technological research and development firms, have joined forces and researching these matters on more of a global level than a "per government/country" program? I don't have a clue, but I'll tell you one thing: It's a heck of a lot easier for me to believe that scenario, than it is to believe that there are numerous Alien species going and coming from the Earth that have never been knowingly substantiated.

Originally posted by ButterCookie

GLAD you asked!!

What is the Drake Equation?

Is there a way to estimate the number of technologically advanced civilizations that might exist in our Galaxy?

While working at the National Radio Astronomy Observatory in Green Bank, West Virginia, Dr. Frank Drake conceived a means to mathematically estimate the number of worlds that might harbor beings with technology sufficient to communicate across the vast gulfs of interstellar space. The Drake Equation, as it came to be known, was formulated in 1961 and is generally accepted by the scientific community.

N = R* fp ne fl fi fc L

where,

N = The number of communicative civilizations
R* = The rate of formation of suitable stars (stars such as our Sun)
fp = The fraction of those stars with planets. (Current evidence indicates that planetary systems may be common for stars like the Sun.)
ne = The number of Earth-like worlds per planetary system
fl = The fraction of those Earth-like planets where life actually develops
fi = The fraction of life sites where intelligence develops
fc = The fraction of communicative planets (those on which electromagnetic communications technology develops)
L = The "lifetime" of communicating civilizations

Frank Drake's own current solution to the Drake Equation estimates 10,000 communicative civilizations in the Milky Way. Dr. Drake, who serves on the SETI League's advisory board, has personally endorsed SETI's planned all-sky survey.

edit on 28-6-2011 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)

Drake Equation has yet to prove anything yet..
Aliens are so wide spread, that no legit signal has been found. Or any legit proof.
So many telescopes around the world operated by hobbyist, governments, schools, etc that look deeply into space yet noone has found a alien family cruising through the cosmos in a jetsons like flying car.. or flying saucer.

Originally posted by Imtor

Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
So do most children with respect to their beliefs in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. That's more or less like saying "Hi, I'm the weatherman, I'm always right" Gotta do better than that if you are in the least bit serious about REAL research and not just reading books and watching youtube.

It means I believe true UFO cases like: Objects seen by pilots who have enough experience to be ok with the brain and know what they see, objects seen by military like those who come forward to talk about the disabled missiles, objects observed and recorded by several witnesses, stories that match or are connected in a way and have dose of truth in them. If you question my research, I am taking the stories, claims, evidence and make and look for connections between them. I'm on the side of any real researcher who can distinguish FAKE from TRUE UFO or event, that means between skepticism and full believer.

I am a proud skeptic (at least, I try to be)

I also believe in UFOs...not that that requires much faith...its a actual known thing that is confirmed by like all nations on earth. the argument comes as to who is piloting them (if anyone)...

I like to believe (proper belief...entertain the speculation of is more accurate, but more wordy) that some of these things are by something extraordinary...hopefully one day it will be discovered as such, but for now, we are missing the smoking gun proof

I like to believe in that because of compelling evidence in the form of testimony given...and although testimony does not constitute proof, it does make one curious about the truth...bit like someone recounting a ghost encounter..it doesn't offer proof, but the testimony is interesting anyhow

Full believers believe nearly every UFO video they see on youtube - like you get every day a video -well sorry some cases are purely fake, they believe everything they hear or see. While I would make sure firstly if I saw an object - is not a plane, heli, Satellite as it happened with one video, etc.

Some are fake, some are misinterpretations, some are natural phenomona, etc...
and since source matters...anonymous on youtube must generally be taken with a grain of salt...now, if the bbc channel on youtube or someone or thing not anonymous posts something that is credible, then that should be broken apart.
So far, there is not a lot of that.

Skeptics, on the other hand, are shallow and show nothing more than ignorance and 'this is fake because I think so'. It was in MANY cases where their claims were wrong and they don't contribute to finding the truth. Most of their claims are like - He's a lier - What makes you think so? Answer: just he's alier that's what makes me think so, I think so but why, how do you know? because I think so.. lol arguments.. Let's say some researchers at least make theories that make sense like Ancient Astronaut Theory - let's say this is a castle of sand or a castle of playing cards. What debunkers do is they just kick it and it collapses, that's it, nothing is build on their place, i,e empty shallow denial and that's all.

Skeptics are shallow
ok, nice generalization
believers are insane
isn't that fun.

Skepticism (and skeptics) are anything but shallow...proper skeptics put in actual time to break apart what is being shown or claimed and find patterns of deception, facts that go against the claim, phenomona that explains the views, etc...
a skeptic is the one that decided the man wearing the bear mask may not be a great bear god and we need to give him our children and half our food else he would send forth the bear spirits to maul everyone...the skeptic is the one that looked for actual proof of the senario, and debunked the bear god into just a greedy arse with a dead bear head he popped on

skepticism and skeptics are the ones that also demand the goverment come clean and release info regarding any number of topics because they don't buy the offical story on (name it...but for relevance...UFO files).

Skepticism and skeptics are THE most critical mindset to have in the research of UFOlogy...else, just go listen to blossom goodchilde for all your information...and buy her books (plenty do...that should show them damned skeptics)

What you describe is a fringe in the skeptic community (not skeptic community, but they claim as much...a skeptic employs facts, science, and knowledge...not a personal system of beliefs).

the study of UFOs and its sub catagory of ET research is not a religion, it is not some replacement for hope and love...it is a study of a phenomona...and skepticism is the only thing that will progress this...believers only ridicule the whole area and make any professional steer clear of it due to it being a laughing stock from the religious believers spewing their space brother crap because some guy selling a book and speaking tour said it while burning skeptics and scientists at the stake for dare questioning their pseudo-religion.

Pick a side, your either a skeptic, or a believer...there is no middle...and once you pick your side then decide which area you will be in...belief expressed by ridiculing the science, or belief expressed by ridiculing the subject.