POLITICS: Immigrants Now Fighting For Voting Rights

Originally posted by JacKatMtn
It is specified and is fairly easy to understand...
Requirements to Residency

Sec. 316. [8 U.S.C. 1427]


(a) No person, except as otherwise provided in this title, shall be naturalized, unless such applicant, (1) immediately preceding the date of filing his application for naturalization has resided continuously, after being lawfully admitted for permanent residence, within the United States for at least five years and during the five years immediately preceding the date of filing his application has been physically present therein for periods totaling at least half of that time...

Sorry Jack, I skimmed over and missed this.
Lets pay close attention to what it says: five years of continous stay after having been granted permanent residence. That is not five years after arrival. Gaining permanent residence is a feat in and of itself. Even seasoned professionals who are allowed into the US to work because an American company needs their expertise: even these types of people are not guaranteed to get permanent residence when they apply for it. They often go from temporary visa to temporary visa, and are forced to leave the country when their employment ends.
Those who enter the US with permanent residence status are a small minority amongst legal immigrants.

U.

Originally posted by Q
Don't actually allow them to vote...just allow them to register, and slap the cuffs on 'em when they show up at the polls.

Save immigration a lot of time and effort.

We're not talking about illegal immigrants and voting... We are talking about legal ones...

Or are we? I certainly was...

U.

waiting 18 years to vote. thats not to muchask all the rest of us native born americans do. Citizinship first then voting rightsprove you want to be an american first.

As a foreigner in a western country i can tell you that what is written on the paper and how it realy is, regarding green cards (visas, immigration, naturalisation etc, etc), are two different things. Trust me. I do understand the need for this lengthy process, after all, we are guests in this country, I am not complaining much about that.
But I have lived in Austria for almost 8 years now, I pay my taxes, I do my job, I've lived in the same city the whole time. I think that gives me the right to vote on local elections. Those elections directly affect my life and I think that I have already earned the right to be put equal with austrians in this matter, even though I do not have a piece of paper that says I am austrian citizen.
IMO, if a person has lived more then 5 years in one country, has a steady job, rents an apartment, pays taxes, that gives them the right to vote.

Originally posted by paperclip
As a foreigner in a western country i can tell you that what is written on the paper and how it realy is, regarding green cards (visas, immigration, naturalisation etc, etc), are two different things. Trust me. I do understand the need for this lengthy process, after all, we are guests in this country, I am not complaining much about that.
But I have lived in Austria for almost 8 years now, I pay my taxes, I do my job, I've lived in the same city the whole time. I think that gives me the right to vote on local elections. Those elections directly affect my life and I think that I have already earned the right to be put equal with austrians in this matter, even though I do not have a piece of paper that says I am austrian citizen.
IMO, if a person has lived more then 5 years in one country, has a steady job, rents an apartment, pays taxes, that gives them the right to vote.

I agree completely.

U.

Originally posted by Karl der Grosse
waiting 18 years to vote. thats not to muchask all the rest of us native born americans do. Citizinship first then voting rightsprove you want to be an american first.

You're not serious, right? You wait 18 years to vote because it makes no sense to let a child vote.

U.

Should immigrants who are not citizens be allowed to vote in the National and state elections? NO< absolutely not. Should they be allowed to vote in city and county elections? perhaps, provided they ARE legal.

Illegal immigrants should not have a right to anything public at all. legal immigrants should have limited voting power. But even then.....

Its like this. lets say I move to Germany. Im still a US citizen, I simply wish to live there? Should I have a say in how thier country is run? NO. I may be living there, but I am a guest, even if a long term one. It is not my right, because I am not a german citizen, I do not have the total concept of german national mentality, to understand fully thier values and views.

For instance, lets say, in this town in germany I live in, a local vote is taken on whether or not to tear down a historical church and build something else. Now, me not being a native or citizen to this town, I may not understand the local emotion and value of this church, I might say, well yeah, its just an old rotting building, tear it down and buoild something I want, like Mc Donalds, much more useful, ect. Now, would this be in line with that many Germans feel? hell no! if there were enough Americans living in that town, they could get to gether and vote to tear down the historical church and build a mc donalds, without understanding the culture, and the love and concern the people who rightfully live there, have on that church.

That would be a shameful case of foreign insensitivity and interference to something they do not understand.

Thus, even legal immigfrants, should be required a number of years of continual residence in the US before even being allowed to vote in local elections.

What would happen if say, Boston had a large number of Muslim immigrants who voted to tear down the Old North Church, a historical landmark, and build a mosque?
\
Its very tricky, you see.

What would happen if say, Boston had a large number of Muslim immigrants who voted to tear down the Old North Church, a historical landmark, and build a mosque?


lol..its always about the muslims with you people isnt it?(you see a terrorist around every tree?)

warped country

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Thus, even legal immigfrants, should be required a number of years of continual residence in the US before even being allowed to vote in local elections.

I recognize the validity of your point. A minimum period of residence is reasonable. I am glad you recognize that after such a period, local voting should be allowed regardless of citizenship.

U.

Originally posted by upuaut

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Thus, even legal immigfrants, should be required a number of years of continual residence in the US before even being allowed to vote in local elections.

I recognize the validity of your point. A minimum period of residence is reasonable. I am glad you recognize that after such a period, local voting should be allowed regardless of citizenship.

U.

Up and Skadi,
I unfortunately disagree with you on this point. Here is my reasoning.
My wife is origionally from Korea and she became a naturalized citizen of this country after 10 years (INS can be very VERY slow). One of the main points, reasons, for her to go after the naturalization process, spending the monies needed, making the trips to the INS offices in San Antonio, and studying so hard to pass the test (note, many americans both high school as well as college graduates would fail).
So to add even more time to allowing them to vote would IMO be a slap in the face.
If these people wish to obey the laws, enter the country legally, and go through the long drawn out process of becoming a US citizen, then they should have all the rights and privledges that natural born americans enjoy.

Note, the right to vote for who governs them and what laws are passed is one of the main reasons that these people become citizens

In my Opinion NO WAY NO HOW why should we let other countries citizens determine our politics if you want to VOTE go through the Process to become a Citizen.If not Spectate....

Might aswell let them vote...




I personally believe that our govt. knowingly makes legal immigration hard and illegal immigration easy for obvious reasons.Its alot easier to exploit someone who is in a foriegn land illegally,that person will do next to anything to stay and survive,yet a legal citizen demands are the same a natural born citizens(such as minimum wage[many illeagls get much less than the national minimum wage ect,ect])

Who will work like a slave for construction,road crews ect? Long grueling days of heavy labor for undocumemnted small sums of money?? who truley benifts from illegal immigration work?The citys complain that illegals waste their tax money(schools,hospitals ect) yet they fail to realize that almost all the money a person earn is spent..which in trun means that they pay sales tax on ever thing they buy,and that in turn goes directly in to the city budget.

Along with that they pay social security and everything else that they can not recieve later in life.

Its your own govt. that wants illegal immigrants here, the same govt. that claims to be in iraq fighting terrorism.





[edit on 10-8-2004 by bigtex007]

I am little confused if everyone is getting the clarification between Permanent Resident Aliens (people with green cards living in this country, waiting the process to become citizens, the long hard legal way) vs. illegal undocumented border sneaking aliens.

Permanent Resident Aliens are Social Security cardholders and tax payers, Illegals are not. I feel that law abiding Permanent Resident Aliens should be differentiated from Illegals and since they are paying taxes, residing in this country, contributing to the economy etc, they should be allowed to participate in elections. Illegal aliens need to be deported back to their countries.

Originally posted by Kenshiro

Originally posted by upuaut

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Thus, even legal immigfrants, should be required a number of years of continual residence in the US before even being allowed to vote in local elections.

I recognize the validity of your point. A minimum period of residence is reasonable. I am glad you recognize that after such a period, local voting should be allowed regardless of citizenship.

U.

Up and Skadi,
I unfortunately disagree with you on this point. Here is my reasoning.
My wife is origionally from Korea and she became a naturalized citizen of this country after 10 years (INS can be very VERY slow). One of the main points, reasons, for her to go after the naturalization process, spending the monies needed, making the trips to the INS offices in San Antonio, and studying so hard to pass the test (note, many americans both high school as well as college graduates would fail).
So to add even more time to allowing them to vote would IMO be a slap in the face.
If these people wish to obey the laws, enter the country legally, and go through the long drawn out process of becoming a US citizen, then they should have all the rights and privledges that natural born americans enjoy.

Note, the right to vote for who governs them and what laws are passed is one of the main reasons that these people become citizens

Hey,

I think you may have misunderstood: I am advocating that your wife should have been able to vote in local elections before she became a citizen. I think that some sort of acclimatization period, counted since arrival, should be decided, after which regardless of citizenship you should be able to vote in local elections if you have dutifully paid your taxes and abided by the laws of the land.

U.

Originally posted by worldwatcher


Permanent Resident Aliens are Social Security cardholders and tax payers, Illegals are not. I feel that law abiding Permanent Resident Aliens should be differentiated from Illegals and since they are paying taxes, residing in this country, contributing to the economy etc, they should be allowed to participate in elections. Illegal aliens need to be deported back to their countries.

Im sorry but the vast majority of illegal immigrant workers(along with teenagers) have a fake I.D. card among other identification materials.Most illegals works at wal-mart,mcdonalds,ect ect etc...Those jobs require I.D. and pay regular pay checks like all the other americans.

So yes they pay social security and all the other things they directly take out of your paycheck.

That plus sales tax equals alot of money for local and federal govt budgets.

Illegal immigrants wont be able to collect on their social security along with the other things their money goes towards.

Your simply unimformed if you believe illegal dont not contribute to the economy.

[edit on 10-8-2004 by bigtex007]

so the isn't it the govt responsibility to crack down on these fake id's?
anyways, i don't know what kind of illegals you know, but i don't know of any who file w4's, so that IRS can be on to them.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
i don't know what kind of illegals you know, but i don't know of any who file w4's, so that IRS can be on to them.

I would say a largepercent are paying social security ect etc.. straight out of their pay checks,along with sales tax,gas tax,ciggerete tax ect ect..these are all taxes being payed by illegals whether you want to realize the truth or not.

If they have fake i.d. and birth certificate theres absolutly no reason they cant file a w4...

besides the amount of money a illegal immigrant makes they probably would recieve money from w4's..they dont get income tax returns thus more freemoney for local and federal govts.


Its virtually impossible to stop the maunfacture of fake i.d.'s

[edit on 10-8-2004 by bigtex007]

This follows the same line of thought that we need to have picture books in the voting booth. What on earth happened to an educated electorate? In all the pioneers of thought surrounding deomcratic ideals, the first, most important ingredient was literacy. Citizenship is also a noble thought. I have a great idea! If immigrants want to vote, LET THEM GET THEIR CITIZENSHIP!

I know, it is a cold hearted, non-politically correct statement to make.
Oh well, I will still sleep well at night. Perhaps not on election night.

In all the pioneers of thought surrounding deomcratic ideals, the first, most important ingredient was literacy.

And what pionners thought surrounding deomcratic ideals are you refering too??Im sure you mean the roman and greeks ect.

Im sure you have no idea how to speak latin or greek so you can drop that frame of thought.To not know a certain language doesnt make someone illiterate anymore than it makes you illiterate for not knowing latin.

Actually, I speak English, Spanish and Greek. Since it seems you find my position irritating, most immigrants who for the past 200 years have assimilated to the American culture, learned English and became citizens, in a desire to participate in the great society. I am very fortunate to have both Hispanic and German immigrants in my ancestry. My grandfather learned enough english to earn his citizenship and vote.

What a concept!
So, sadly, I won't drop that line of thought. Sorry.

And if I were in Poland, and couldn't function, speak, or read in Polish, yes, I would be illiterate in Poland.
Ciao

[edit on 10-8-2004 by spidergooch]