Respect, Corruption, Law Enforcement and You

reply to post by NuroSlam


Indeed. One of the two Peace Officers I have alot of respect for is Hank Whitman. He is the head of the Texas Rangers. If anyone wants to know what a true Peace Officer should be like, they only need to go to him, and learn by example. Cops primarily. He served as Honor Guard in the Marines, and graduated top of his class by the way. The Man is Humble, has empathy, and will even known to take time out of his 18 hour days to visit People he put in jail, just to see how they are doing. Sometimes he will drive hours JUST TO DO THIS.

That is how it should be. But then again, those are big shoes to fill.

Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by Evil_Santa

 

was to setup the premise for the question

You wish to debate? Do not "Set Up" anything. I've been here quite a long time and even have some reputation in the debate forum; I will not be baited or led thank you.

My question is: Do you agree or disagree, that among your peers, there's an acceptance of police brutality towards citizens?

Disagree; among my peers.

I don't believe that you would have felt that having one of your questions side-stepped would be an acceptable

This is ATS

Just because someone does not answer the "way you want", does not mean they did not answer. I answered you. I am not familiar with the area, the department or the incident "you" say happened.

Semper

Thank you for the answer.

Now, for the "debate" as you put it. A quick site search of "DNC semperfortis" gave some unique results.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I wasn't setting you up, or baiting you, i was citing an example to (hopefully) trigger in you mind an event rather large issue that happened 4 years ago. You're claiming no kowledge of said event, (even insinuating that I'm making it up) but you moderated a user in a thread on the topic of said issue, and have direct posts in other threads about the 2008 DNC.

Our interaction is a prime example of why people are fed up with their LEO's. Instead of us having a civil debate on the issue, you ignored my first counter-argument to your initial arguments, then side-stepped my question, and then whence i became very direct in the question, you went on the offense to (try) intimidating me with, (Note: the following words are baiting) "Herp-Derp, i cun debatez bettarx", then tell me that you don't have to give a respectful answer to my question because it's the intarwebz, and follow it up by calling my integrity into question.

Disgusting, and you're a super moderator here?

I suspect that if you encountered the same type of behavior from an individual you were questioning, you would arrest them for disobeying an officer, or any of the other scape-goat charges LEOs use to intimidate people.

Your argument that LEO's being afraid of lawsuits being the cause for their actions means nothing to me. LEO's are far from the only profession that has red-tape in their jobs. Welcome to the growing list of professions that encounter that same red-tape to avoid lawsuits. Construction workers, doctors, inventors, day care workers, teachers, management, mechanics... the list goes on. What makes an officer of the law any more special than all of those other professions - and more so - how is a stressor that other professions have an adequate excuse for the actions of LEOs ? I say nothing, and that they should be held accountable for their actions just as anyone else is.

Likewise, the argument that you shouldn't have to deal with being video-taped constantly while on the job? LOL. 99% of commerical businesses have CCTV systems in the stores to prevent theft from their employees. I'm sorry that being video taped while working stresses ya out, but do you think that it causes the same stress of someone working a cashier at wal-mart?

If you can't handle the heat, then get out of the kitchen.

Ya want to know what I think the issue is? Well should you say no to that question, then stop reading now.

1.) our society has been trained to be narcissistic consumers, to the point that we're loosing touch with the ability to feel empathy for others. Mass-media and advertising is the primary culprit of this.

2.) Military brainwashing is teaching individuals to dehumanize people, when dealing with the negative sides of humanity. It has become a defacto standard training regiment for a lot of professions. LEO's learn it with the degrading way they speak about civilians, debt collects learn it by calling humans debtors, InfoSec do it when talking about black-hats, and i'm sure there are more vocations which teach the same. It's the basis for the Us-vs-Them issue that most people on here have cited.

3.) The Blue Code. en.wikipedia.org... There's plenty of reference material there to brush up on this topic, but you covered quite a bit of it with your "we might be sued" arguments.

With these three things combined it's created a powder-keg for how police and people are interacting.

reply to post by Evil_Santa


Obviously you have no desire to debate civilly

So I found some T&C violation and acted on it, that does not mean I read all threads..

Wake up please

Your attacks are transparent and cumbersome and not worth my time

Thank you for responding

Semper

Originally posted by HermitShip
reply to post by NuroSlam

 

Indeed. One of the two Peace Officers I have alot of respect for is Hank Whitman. He is the head of the Texas Rangers. If anyone wants to know what a true Peace Officer should be like, they only need to go to him, and learn by example. Cops primarily. He served as Honor Guard in the Marines, and graduated top of his class by the way. The Man is Humble, has empathy, and will even known to take time out of his 18 hour days to visit People he put in jail, just to see how they are doing. Sometimes he will drive hours JUST TO DO THIS.

That is how it should be. But then again, those are big shoes to fill.

I'm glad you brought up the Texas Rangers, Im actually from Dallas just happen to reside in Phoenix, and I have to say, I can't say that I can remember a reported case of misconduct by a Ranger. so I set off to see if their were any. Here is what I found.

The Odessa Texas police department and the Texas Rangers are accused of taking part in a retaliatory raid on police accountability activist Barry Cooper of “KopBusters” fame and his wife Candice. Barry, currently in hiding while the subject of a warrant because , says the police raided their home for a second time over a misdemeanor charge of making a false report related to one of their fake drug house videotaped raids.

www.injusticeeverywhere.com...
That is the only incident that has been reported on Injustice Everywhere's website, you do find them there in ref to them being the ones investigating the allegations of misconduct. And to be honest, I think the Odessa Police lied about the evidence in order to get the rangers involved.

Its an interesting example of what makes a texican different. Yes I do make a distinction between a "Texan" and and a "Texican"

The modern Ranger has risen to the challenge and has accepted the tradition expectation to be the very best. Rangers are better trained, and educated then ever before in the history. Even though their number has just reached just over the 144 mark, they still fall way short of one Ranger for each of the 254 counties in Texas. Yet, with the reputation of "One riot, one Ranger," the Rangers don’t seem to need a massive group to accomplish their mission and maintain their reputation.

Click here for more information.

Just more proof of the thin blue line, an OBVIOUS example of police retaliation to protect and defend their own


I'm sure you will find a way to defend this

reply to post by NuroSlam


Well howdy Texan. Yeah, the Odessa department had them get involved, and there is some Personal History obviously involved with Barry and the others in Texas.

Regardless, you are correct. Being the first Peace Keeping organization in this Nation, the Rangers have always lead the way, and all others have followed. To bad others still done head their lead. Obviously in the old days they were very rowdy on the border, but those days are gone, and were different circumstances.

I dont know about the rest of the Rangers, but the Chief I know Personally, and can vouch for "cracker jack". He is good Man through and through. I would trust him with my life. And the other Peace Officer I respect is Sheriff Mack, though I dont know him Personally. My local Sheriff is the second Peace Officer that I know, and respect.

The thing that connects all three of these People is that they are common men. Working men. Country boys from the Earth. They understand People, and are humble, and will talk to you about your concerns because they have your best interests at heart.

Simply put. They give a damn.

reply to post by NuroSlam

It's all about the revenue, Typical nit picking. I wonder how much the tickets were apiece?

It;s also nice to spend the time to think out a long reply to the OP only to have him ignore it.
I suppose I didn't have any comments worth a response.

Semper man...

I wish there was a way, to show most of these people the side of society that skews some leo's. They watch a few vids on leo's being aggressive...and all leo's become their "enemy" for life. We remain open eyed and minded despite what we've seen from the public we are charged with protecting. l woke up everyday happy to help all over again. For the leo's that are a$$es, what can I say. Some laws are $hit, some politicians are $hit, a lot of society is $hit. Common denominator = people.

They don't care what we say it seems nothing can stop the people who feel oppressed by the ever tightening laws that change, in accordance to their demands to remain protected..

It appears that "deny ignorance" is only two words, that don't mean much. Instead, how about we change the motto to "embrace chaos"? That way, we can all live our skewed little lives the way we want to. Then no one would complain. Most wouldn't last long...but w./e.

I see more whining about how leo's act, without many suggestions of how we want them to act while helping people, enforcing weird laws, etc etc.

I always tried to act according to what the situation dictated. Not dictate the situation when I arrived. IN the end it was still too much for me.

Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by Evil_Santa

 

Obviously you have no desire to debate civilly

Obviously you have to desire to debate at all, hypocrite. You just want to triumphantly march around with your ego flying on a flag i your left hand, and a chipped gavel in your right. Don't take my word for it, observe:

Wake up please

Your attacks are transparent and cumbersome and not worth my time

Thank you for responding

Semper

This is not how adults act. What an embarrassment to the integrity of ATS a duly the justice system.

Unbelievable

Originally posted by Demoncreeper
Semper man...

I wish there was a way, to show most of these people the side of society that skews some leo's. They watch a few vids on leo's being aggressive...and all leo's become their "enemy" for life. We remain open eyed and minded despite what we've seen from the public we are charged with protecting. l woke up everyday happy to help all over again. For the leo's that are a$$es, what can I say. Some laws are $hit, some politicians are $hit, a lot of society is $hit. Common denominator = people.

You honestly believe that we are to stupid to see what skews "some" LEO's? We see it all to well, we even try to discuss the matter with you in an intelligent way and all you can say "you don't understand, your to stupid to know the law, you are not worthy of respect its is all your fault" in fact, that was the very nature of the OP after he used his "authority" as a super mod, to shut down a thread that was in fact having an open and honest discussion of the issues between "the stupid masses" and "law enforcement"

They don't care what we say it seems nothing can stop the people who feel oppressed by the ever tightening laws that change, in accordance to their demands to remain protected..

I don't feel oppressed, I feel disgusted that there is no honesty in LE. This brings something to mind that I use to hear in my early days
"The criminals that don't get caught make the best cops"

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by Demoncreeper
Semper man...

I wish there was a way, to show most of these people the side of society that skews some leo's. They watch a few vids on leo's being aggressive...and all leo's become their "enemy" for life. We remain open eyed and minded despite what we've seen from the public we are charged with protecting. l woke up everyday happy to help all over again. For the leo's that are a$$es, what can I say. Some laws are $hit, some politicians are $hit, a lot of society is $hit. Common denominator = people.

You honestly believe that we are to stupid to see what skews "some" LEO's? We see it all to well, we even try to discuss the matter with you in an intelligent way and all you can say "you don't understand, your to stupid to know the law, you are not worthy of respect its is all your fault" in fact, that was the very nature of the OP after he used his "authority" as a super mod, to shut down a thread that was in fact having an open and honest discussion of the issues between "the stupid masses" and "law enforcement"

They don't care what we say it seems nothing can stop the people who feel oppressed by the ever tightening laws that change, in accordance to their demands to remain protected..

I don't feel oppressed, I feel disgusted that there is no honesty in LE. This brings something to mind that I use to hear in my early days
"The criminals that don't get caught make the best cops"

edit on 25-6-2011 by NuroSlam because: (no reason given)

And this is where and how it all happens folks.

First of all if you are going to throw quotation marks around something and suggest it as coming from me, please quote the ACTUAL words, not your perception or assumptions of what I meant.

I also dig how you throw all LE's under the same blanket but you get offended when I throw non le's under the same one. haha.

Originally posted by mustard seed
Lord God save us!
As if the ones who those same crazy laws are enforced upon are nothing all over again and poor armed and armored LEO who CHOSE to do the job of enforcing those laws. Which by the way are largely NOT passed by the people but dictated by the government. But here again it is the poor,poor psuedo-proffesional whining how "ignorant" non-LE are.
This statement though when looked at closely is what corroborates my assertion about Semper and most other LEOs

"Some laws are $hit, some politicians are $hit, a lot of society is $hit. Common denominator = people."

Do the math people = $hit.
Tempted now to flag this thread for Semper it really is exposing what we are buying with our LE dollar.
seed

That's right. Blinders go both ways, pal.

Society in general has -petered down to this. You are right, I am not.
Lord saving you or I is not going to happen.

Instead of whining about who is more ignorant, why don't you suggest your ideals, so that your mindset can be understood.

I know people don't pass laws, they cry for new laws to protect them. When they get them, or variant of whatever they needed to feel protected from, we get this user. Angry and equally as ignorant as I.

Sweet.

Originally posted by Demoncreeper

First of all if you are going to throw quotation marks around something and suggest it as coming from me, please quote the ACTUAL words, not your perception or assumptions of what I meant.

I also dig how you throw all LE's under the same blanket but you get offended when I throw non le's under the same one. haha.

Since not one of you members of LE has even attempted to address any issue I have mentioned, so yes I will say all who have participated in this thread.
Now, would you like to address the issues rather your indignation about not being respected. People don't just wake up despising a group of people, it happens do to conditioning.

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by Demoncreeper

First of all if you are going to throw quotation marks around something and suggest it as coming from me, please quote the ACTUAL words, not your perception or assumptions of what I meant.

I also dig how you throw all LE's under the same blanket but you get offended when I throw non le's under the same one. haha.

Since not one of you members of LE has even attempted to address any issue I have mentioned, so yes I will say all who have participated in this thread.
Now, would you like to address the issues rather your indignation about not being respected. People don't just wake up despising a group of people, it happens do to conditioning.

Exactly what you are speaking of goes both ways, man.

You say your issues haven't been answered, but what would you LIKE us to say to them? And what variant of perception will you apply? List your issues and apply your own answers as you would like to hear.. if they were coming from a LEO, or ex ..And I, at least, will try to apply why I would agree and or disagree.. Would that be efficient?

Originally posted by Demoncreeper
You say your issues haven't been answered, but what would you LIKE us to say to them? And what variant of perception will you apply? List your issues and apply your own answers as if they were coming from a LEO, or ex ..And I, at least, will try to apply why I would agree and or disagree.. Would that be efficient?

Fair enough, I have addressed this before but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and do it again. One very glaring issue that more and more people are having with the LEO is the enforcement of unjust laws, regardless of how they came to be or why. The blind eye that is being applied when it comes to these laws as "im just doing my job","just don't break the law" etc... It is these responses that to the person addressing them takes as a slap in the face to intellectual debate.

There is one area that more than anything else leads to this, and that is the war on drugs. To me, its a 50 billion dollar LE business with very little being spent on the treatment of the problem. Its an iron fist on the individuals right to decided how he/she should live their life and protect his/her property. Now, personally i feel the constitution is barely worth the paper it was written on, but if I am required to live under its principles, then I would expect that those who are entrusted with the insane amount of power that LE has to uphold that very same document. No where in the constitution is Government granted to authority to dictate what a person does or does not do with his or her body unless the action causes harm, injury or damage to another's life, liberty or property. In fact there is an amendment that actually prohibits it if one were to apply the same interpretation of laws to charge people with crimes truly shows that it is unconstitutional to protect one from his or her vices.

That is the 21st amendment, the repeal of prohibition. The enacting of prohibition caused one of the most violent times in the early 20th century and allowed people like Al Capone to come into power. Its repeal allowed America to return to a state of civil peace. The drive by killings stopped, the death of innocent children stopped, the bombing of businesses stopped. But those who wish to dictate and wield power over others didn't learn their lesson and the declaration of war on the American people by Nixon happened.

A new black market for drug arose and has lead to the deadliest wars ever to grace the shores of America. Drug cartels sprung up almost overnight, we now have war in the streets of every city in the US, gang vs gang, gang vs cop cop vs citizen. I can not remember the last time I have been pulled over and the second thing out of LE's mouth is "any guns or weapons in the car" followed by "are you sure there are no drugs in the car". This is offensive, I do not do drugs, I don't look like I do drugs, I don't drive some pimped out ride, I have no visible tattoos, so yes, I take offensive to the idea I might have drugs.

As part of this war on drugs, we now have no knock warrants, that has led to more then one innocent families life being destroyed, people being shot in their beds, their pets being killed, their children being traumatised by the actions of the LEO kicking in a door and holding a gun to them.

Its obvious, minus the war on drugs, we would not need half the LEO's we have now. Yes, drugs are a problem, but war is not the solution.

Yet any time, these facts are mentioned, we get the usual "its the law","following orders","don't like it change it". Its so very rare for a LEO to admit its a failure, that lives are being destroyed, that property is being stolen and sold for a profit by there very people we once believed were in the business of protecting us from our enemies both foreign and domestic. I grew up believing that the Peace Office was the last line of defence against the ever encroaching totalitarian power of the state. Now, at the age of 45 all those illusions are gone.

Why should I ever respect someone who can't even address the issues that we raise?