City of Santa Fe: Chemtrials Hit the Petition Floor

City of Santa Fe: Chemtrials Hit the Petition Floor

www.santafenm.gov/archives/31/01-28-09%20CIty%20Council.pdf


Terence Loveway took the Chemtrail problem to the Petition Floor of Santa Fe, New Mexico and spoke to senator Udall.

City of Santa Fe
REGULAR MEETING OF THE GOVERNING BODY
JANUARY 28, 2009
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS

EVENING SESSION -7:00 P.M
A. CALL TO ORDER
B. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
C. INVOCATION
D. ROLL CALL
E. PETITIONS FROM THE FLOOR

Terence Loveway, presented an Editorial from The Santa Fe New Mexican, dated Sunday, November 3,2008, entitled "Night Sky Protection Gains Global Attention.


" He said the article was concerned about the lights which are taking away the ability to look at and view the beautiful night skies in Santa Fe. Mr. Loveway said he replied in a letter to be in a column called "My View," but it wasn't published, as follows: Just to comment on your November 2(jh editorial, "Night Sky Protection Gains Global Attention, "which I totally support. Look, up in the sky, it's a bird, yeah, it's probably a desert raven. It's a plain. Wait. It is a plane. An unmarked jet spewing long vapor like plumes visible since 1999, that filled the skies with milky residue that unlike water vapor con trails which go away in ten seconds, remain suspended in our once clear blue skies, and spread out over time, filling our skies with cloudy particulates such as barium and aluminum.


Mr. Loveway said he spoke with then Congressman, now Senator Udall whom he has known for twenty years. He said Senator Udall cited the U.S. standard that they are simply con trails, which Mr. Loveway says is a lie. He said the other day he counted six unmarked 737 size jets laying these chem trails over Santa Fe in crisscross fashion. He said there were none today. If you don't care about what other countries and states are being sprayed with, then care about the fact that our beautiful, once untainted skies are being taken away. Senator Santa Fe City Council Minutes: January 28, 2009 Page 14 Udall's office told me that he would give this a closer look if I presented him with a petition signed by 2,000 citizens. He is beginning that petition on February 2, 2009. He asked the Mayor, Council and Legislators for protection from more than City lights. He presented photographs demonstrating con trails and chem trails. He said this needs to be investigated. He has lived here for 36 years and every day jets fly over Santa Fe leaving con trails, but not the chem trail jets.

Please post other documents of cities and states addressing Chemtrails.

reply to post by afw2121


So what was the follow up?

Did he get his 2000 signatures?

did he continue with the pseudo-science that contrails only last for 10 seconds?

"Petitions from the floor" is usually the opportunity allotted where the general public may speak before a council, perhaps a city or other local gov't scheduled meeting....usually time constrained to between 1 and 3 minutes.
I don't see how or why this is is significant....( 2.5 years ago as well...) it's just some guy repeating what letters he wrote in reply to a news article, and seemingly not satisfied with that, is now voicing his opinion publicly) Am I missing some significance here ?......

reply to post by EyeDontKnow


Nah that's about it.

reply to post by EyeDontKnow


You missed an eye witness account of planes spraying chemtrails:

"Look, up in the sky, it's a bird, yeah, it's probably a desert raven. It's a plain. Wait. It is a plane. An unmarked jet spewing long vapor like plumes visible since 1999, that filled the skies with milky residue that unlike water vapor con trails which go away in ten seconds, remain suspended in our once clear blue skies, and spread out over time, filling our skies with cloudy particulates such as barium and aluminum.

reply to post by afw2121


It's hard to miss those "eye witness accounts" really. They are flooding ats all the time

reply to post by afw2121


I didn't miss it.

Contrails only lasting 10 seconds is a lie, there is no definitive time a contrail can last...much like there is no definitive time a cloud lasts.

I still don't get the significance of this.
OKay, he claims to see "chemtrails". So do many other people.

Was your reason for posting this story, that you admire his tenacity to "get his word out" "...and the manner in which he did it ?

I think the point is that there are people taking this issue to their politicians. And to the credit of the politicians they are asking for a consensus as to the amount of concern of the general population.
If 2000 people think they are being sprayed then he would likely bring together a few experts to a town hall meeting. That would show he cares. Now whether the majority would be swayed is another matter.

You can lead a horse to the trough of knowledge but he’s still going to crap in your yard.

Originally posted by afw2121
You missed an eye witness account of planes spraying chemtrails:

You missed the part where eye witness testimony is unreliable.

I lived in N. New Mexico for some years. When I first got there the night sky was filled with thousands of stars. There wasn't any air traffic there to speak of except for the occassional Blackhawk. Then the night skies became occluded and few stars could be seen. A group from the nearest town started a movement called 'Dark Skies' and were around asking people to participate. At first I thought they were talking about porch lights and wondered if someone was objecting to my porchlight (run off solar and wind) (the only one within 7 miles) or to porchlights in town. Then I started to notice the grids and X's and loops in the sky that lasted all day and thinned to cover the entire sky by night. Weather radar pictures at the time were interesting: they showed up like a mass of black dots looking like insects wherever this stuff was sprayed. I think it takes at least a generation to forget what the skies were like less than 10 years ago in an isolated 8000 foot elevation place like that compared to what they are like today.

reply to post by luxordelphi


More simple answer: You don't understand the distinction between weather and climate.

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by luxordelphi

 

More simple answer: You don't understand the distinction between weather and climate.

Sorry to confuse you. Just to be clear, the weather there can be sudden, dangerous and erratic. It is important for the safety of person and equipment to stay immediately on top of it not relying on weather reports but watching real time action paying close attention to the edge of a storm. These insect like looking swarms on the weather radar were something that showed up with the beginning of the spraying there. Never saw them before. Weather reports called them clouds but no clouds were ever visible and no rain ever resulted.

It wasn't until many years later, actually right here on ATS, that I read a thread about some incident in Australia with a weather station there reporting this exact same type of thing. Don't remember the thread but I think it was officially attributed to some kind of bird movement initially.

The point being that birds were not filling the N. New Mexico skies but planes spewing something were.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
I lived in N. New Mexico for some years. When I first got there the night sky was filled with thousands of stars. There wasn't any air traffic there to speak of except for the occassional Blackhawk. Then the night skies became occluded and few stars could be seen. A group from the nearest town started a movement called 'Dark Skies' and were around asking people to participate. At first I thought they were talking about porch lights and wondered if someone was objecting to my porchlight (run off solar and wind) (the only one within 7 miles) or to porchlights in town. Then I started to notice the grids and X's and loops in the sky that lasted all day and thinned to cover the entire sky by night. Weather radar pictures at the time were interesting: they showed up like a mass of black dots looking like insects wherever this stuff was sprayed. I think it takes at least a generation to forget what the skies were like less than 10 years ago in an isolated 8000 foot elevation place like that compared to what they are like today.

I have lived in Northern New Mexico too. Your memories are not quite very accurate, there is and has been lots of air traffic overhead. Your idea that there was not any air traffic at all, is utterly wrong.

Lots of aircraft go over the Cimarron VOR, especially on the way to DFW or airports further East. And you have all the flights between DEN and ABQ.

If there were no flights at all over northern NM, then why would they have aircraft Navaids there?

Originally posted by EyeDontKnow
"Petitions from the floor" is usually the opportunity allotted where the general public may speak before a council, perhaps a city or other local gov't scheduled meeting....usually time constrained to between 1 and 3 minutes.
I don't see how or why this is is significant....( 2.5 years ago as well...) it's just some guy repeating what letters he wrote in reply to a news article, and seemingly not satisfied with that, is now voicing his opinion publicly) Am I missing some significance here ?......

edit on 22-6-2011 by EyeDontKnow because: Filled out, and filled up..."burrrrrp!"

But chemtrailers have long used each others words as proof. Its like a blind dog always chasing its tail, so to speak. Somehow they think using each others speculation, makes it into proof.

Someone could probably get a few minutes to ramble on about unicorns, but that would not make any proof that unicorns exist either.

reply to post by firepilot

Hi. There wasn't any air traffic to speak of. That's what I said. Except for the occassional Blackhawk. That's what I meant. Then there was so much, you had to comment on it and speak of it. I'm not talking about the occassional training (for the Mars mission) or surveying (for anomalies) or the very few private planes taking off or landing at a very small, mostly closed airport. This was excessive, startling, sit up and take notice kind of airshow action.

I don't know what a Navaid is.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by firepilot

 

Hi. There wasn't any air traffic to speak of. That's what I said. Except for the occassional Blackhawk. That's what I meant. Then there was so much, you had to comment on it and speak of it. I'm not talking about the occassional training (for the Mars mission) or surveying (for anomalies) or the very few private planes taking off or landing at a very small, mostly closed airport. This was excessive, startling, sit up and take notice kind of airshow action.

I don't know what a Navaid is.

Navaid is Navigational Aid. Its those white round buildings you see with a cone in the middle. Those are radio beacons for aircraft to track to, and away from. There is one just outside of Cimarron, and many aircraft going to DFW use that.

I lived in northern NM in the mid 90s (first time) and I remember seeing many F-111s, and even F-117s fly over. Along with airliners flying over too. Airlines have always flown between Albuquerque and Denver too, along with regional airline flights to Santa Fe, and sometimes Taos.

Here is on flightaware that you can watch aircraft in northern NM and southern CO
flightaware.com...

Even as I write this, United 2115 is passing over northern NM from Minneapolis, going to Albuqerque, at 34000 ft.

reply to post by firepilot

Thankyou for the link to the very cool flight tracking site and for your answer about the Navaid. I was in a thread recently where I had to read alot of airplane stuff and I remember mention of that but I think it was called something else.

As I looked at the flight tracker there were no planes at all over the area where I used to be. I'm not there now so I can't speak for what might or might not actually be in the sky. I just have to say in defense of my ability to discriminate, I saw many things in the sky during the years that I was there that I could not explain. If I was an out at the spokes (rather than the hub) type of person, I'd probably be posting in a UFO forum now. I'm sure that as information is declassified there will come an explanation for these unusual sightings. BUT as far as the planes spewing stuff - they were not there when I came and while I was there it became so intense that stars could not be seen and grass roots groups like "Dark Skies" formed for the sole reason of wanting the beautiful blazing night time skies back. Like I said, when I first met them I initially thought they were there to complain about my porch light.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Sorry to confuse you. Just to be clear, the weather there can be sudden, dangerous and erratic.

Here in Florida too. It's pretty exciting.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
It is important for the safety of person and equipment to stay immediately on top of it not relying on weather reports but watching real time action paying close attention to the edge of a storm. These insect like looking swarms on the weather radar were something that showed up with the beginning of the spraying there.

Did meteorologists notice anything abnormal?

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Never saw them before. Weather reports called them clouds but no clouds were ever visible and no rain ever resulted.

So the radar was returning....something, but you couldn't see it? Sounds more life chaff than chemtrails, are you close to a military base?

Originally posted by luxordelphi
It wasn't until many years later, actually right here on ATS, that I read a thread about some incident in Australia with a weather station there reporting this exact same type of thing. Don't remember the thread but I think it was officially attributed to some kind of bird movement initially.

The point being that birds were not filling the N. New Mexico skies but planes spewing something were.

Interesting.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by firepilot

 

Thankyou for the link to the very cool flight tracking site and for your answer about the Navaid. I was in a thread recently where I had to read alot of airplane stuff and I remember mention of that but I think it was called something else.

As I looked at the flight tracker there were no planes at all over the area where I used to be. I'm not there now so I can't speak for what might or might not actually be in the sky. I just have to say in defense of my ability to discriminate, I saw many things in the sky during the years that I was there that I could not explain. If I was an out at the spokes (rather than the hub) type of person, I'd probably be posting in a UFO forum now. I'm sure that as information is declassified there will come an explanation for these unusual sightings. BUT as far as the planes spewing stuff - they were not there when I came and while I was there it became so intense that stars could not be seen and grass roots groups like "Dark Skies" formed for the sole reason of wanting the beautiful blazing night time skies back. Like I said, when I first met them I initially thought they were there to complain about my porch light.

Dark Skies groups, are not about chemtrails, but are about limiting night time light pollution. And yes, northern NM still has brilliant night skies, I was just there last month. Flagstaff AZ limits the night lighting for just that purpose.

I do not think anything is going to convince you that aircraft flew over New Mexico previously. But ask yourself, do you think the airliners intentionally diverted around the entire state?