We're Not All Angry-Internet-Atheists.

"Friendly Atheist Helps Vandalized Church Raise Funds"

-"The Friendly Atheist" & Pastor John Bluebaugh on “Fox & Friends Weekend” talking about the church vandalism story

Hemant Mehta, who goes by "the friendly atheist," created a church cleanup donation fund online from his home in Chicago.

www.ktvz.com...

Atheists may have many criticisms or concerns with religion or theism; whether it be it's socio-political effects, it's philosophy or it's ethical and moral teaching. But both parties must acknowledge that we exist together, on Earth, we must establish a level of mutual respect; a civil decorum.

Whilst most atheists hold freedom of speech dear to their hearts, it is evident in the United States that freedom of expression is considered paramount to a civil society also; this means protecting EVERY citizen's right to practice whatever religion they want (or not to practice any religion at all)

I think the above story is a wonderful example of solidarity between those with differing beliefs. I think this is a step in the right direction; and it's the attitude that I believe atheists should employ if we hope to reach anything like a common humanism.

Share your thoughts and opinions, and with civility please.

Be sure to check out Hemant Mehta's website: friendlyatheist.com...

We're not all "Angry-Internet-Atheists" as i've heard many describe us

I should applaud this guy. At least it proves not all atheists are like Stalin, Pol Pot or Mao.

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
I should applaud this guy. At least it proves not all atheists are like Stalin, Pol Pot or Mao.

This stems from one of the most spurious arguments made against atheism. "Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao were atheist, they were evil, therefore atheism is evil."

The only problem with that argument is they were not atheist.

Hitler was convinced he was doing the "Lords work" and said so multiple times. I know you didn't say Hitler but a lot of others do.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Stalin was an atheist. He abolished religion only because he saw it as a rival power and wanted the power himself. He reinstated the church after Hitler invaded. Stalin saw organized religion as an obstacle to total power.

Pol Pot is even more absurd. Pol Pot attacked and tried to kill everything. religion, science, education, medicine, etc. Does that sound like an atheist to you? Pol Pot was also a Theravada Buddhist. He studied at a buddhist monastery and then a catholic school.

I can't say for sure about Mao but more than likely it was a cult of personality thing in order to attempt to elevate himself to the level of a god. Just like Stalin.

They were not evil people because of their faith or lack of faith, they were just evil people.

I am not saying this is something you say personally, just addressing those that do.

Thanks op! I'm glad someone is trying to counter the prejudice against atheist, especially since we seem to be the only ones that value logic and reason above all else in today's world.

Considering how many churches willingly lend a hand to down and out athiests, believers and non-believers alike, it's good to see someone push aside their own beliefs for the sake of helping his fellow human.

S&F

Originally posted by megabytz

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
I should applaud this guy. At least it proves not all atheists are like Stalin, Pol Pot or Mao.

This stems from one of the most spurious arguments made against atheism. "Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao were atheist, they were evil, therefore atheism is evil."

The only problem with that argument is they were not atheist.

Hitler was convinced he was doing the "Lords work" and said so multiple times. I know you didn't say Hitler but a lot of others do.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Stalin was an atheist. He abolished religion only because he saw it as a rival power and wanted the power himself. He reinstated the church after Hitler invaded. Stalin saw organized religion as an obstacle to total power.

Pol Pot is even more absurd. Pol Pot attacked and tried to kill everything. religion, science, education, medicine, etc. Does that sound like an atheist to you? Pol Pot was also a Theravada Buddhist. He studied at a buddhist monastery and then a catholic school.

I can't say for sure about Mao but more than likely it was a cult of personality thing in order to attempt to elevate himself to the level of a god. Just like Stalin.

They were not evil people because of their faith or lack of faith, they were just evil people.

I am not saying this is something you say personally, just addressing those that do.

Thanks op! I'm glad someone is trying to counter the prejudice against atheist, especially since we seem to be the only ones that value logic and reason above all else in today's world.

reminds me of a quote this one gentleman had said in a convo once


""Religion has killed millions more than any of the two atomic bombs did"

Atheism killed even more. Stalin: 20 million. Mao: 35 million. Pol Pot: 1.6 million.

Oh, and just to forestall the predictable response, I am using the same criteria for labeling a regime "atheist," as you are using to label one "religious."


.

Its much easier to say your religious or make it seem that way when your athiest.

But when you are religious its much harder to say or make it seem like your athiest .

because of the psychological moral battles that goes on .

i would believe they were more on athiesm side then that of a religius nature to its very minimal degree whatever that may be worth ....

as for hitler... he was just one of those enigmas if you will



as for the op thats pretty goot that he did that ! Photo op . more publicity . or genuine compassion thumbs up to him for the good deeds .

reply to post by seedofchucky

Of course, someone bad believing something does not make that belief wrong. It's also entirely possible that Hitler was lying when he claimed to believe in God. We certainly can't conclude that he's an atheist, though.

www.infidels.org...

Just because someone who commits atrocities has a lack of belief in a deity doesn't mean it therefore discredits "Atheism"; lack of belief in a deity.

A challenge often proposed; name a moral act made by a person with belief in a deity, that couldn't be made by a person without belief in a deity.

When we ask ourself what atrocities can be commited in the name of God; we don't have to think deep for examples. Concepts of Matyrdom and Jihad in the QuRan don't prohibit suicide in the name of Allah, infact those concepts have severe implications, and apparent effects on people, and militias - It's not entirely a "cultural" issue.

Did those Japanese kamakaze pilots shout "atheism" before they committed suicide? Did Hitler form his fascist regime because of a lack of belief in God?.... maybe not.

reply to post by megabytz

Hitler was convinced he was doing the "Lords work" and said so multiple times.

Yes, those "multiple times" you speak of were in public speeches to a German populace that was predominantly Christian.

Another favorite Hilter quote:

"To whom should propaganda be addressed? … It must be addressed always and exclusively to the masses… The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, necessities, etc., whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision. The whole art consists in doing this so skilfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct, etc. But since propaganda is not and cannot be the necessity in itself … its effect for the most part must be aimed at the emotions and only to a very limited degree at the so-called intellect… it's soundness is to be measured exclusively by its effective result". (Main Kampf, Vol 1, Ch 6 and Ch 12)

Adolf Hitler - Christian, Atheist, or Neither?

reply to post by seedofchucky


Means of murder and population demography have more to do with the number of people killed by atheists...and those deaths really had nothing to do with a lack of belief in a deity. Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot killed people because:
Stalin: Power hungry
Mao: Obsessed with communism/power hungry
Pol Pot: Guano insane

None of them did anything in the name of atheism, none of them made 'god doesn't exist a battle cry'. On the other hand:

Nazis had "gott mitt uns" on their belt buckles.
Crusades? Need I say more? The leaders may have had their own reasons for doing things, but the rank and file sure as hell had religious motivation.
Islamic response to crusades.
Age of religious wars
Northern Ireland
Kashmir
I can go on.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


...and in private he was just as religious.

I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.
Adolph Hitler to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941

Letters aren't propaganda

Or there are Hitler's table talks...

Man has discovered in nature the wonderful notion of that all-mighty being whose law he worships. Fundamentally in everyone there is the feeling for this all-mighty, which we call God (that is to say, the dominion of natural laws throughout the whole universe). The priests, who have always succeeded in exploiting this feeling, threaten punishments for the man who refuses to accept the creed they impose. When one provokes in a child a fear of the dark, one awakens in him a feeling of atavistic dread. Thus this child will be ruled all his life by this dread, whereas another child, who has been intelligently brought up, will be free of it. It's said that every man needs a refuge where he can find consolation and help in unhappiness. I don't believe it! If humanity follows that path, it's solely a matter of tradition and habit. That's a lesson, by the way, that can be drawn from the Bolshevik front. The Russians have no God, and that doesn't prevent them from being able to face death. We don't want to educate anyone in atheism.
night of 11-12 July 1941

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Who says letters cannot be propaganda? You? Why can't letters be propaganda? You're frothing at the mouth for a chance to call Hitler a Christian.

Is your school schedule too intense to allow you to read past the first paragraph of a link provided for you?

"My conclusion is that Hitler, although he was brought up and confirmed as a Catholic, had abandoned Christianity by the time he was in control of Germany. Importantly though, he was not an atheist either. Read on to find out more…

Some select Hitler quotes detailing his unbridled fondness of any and all things Christian:

"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....
"Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)


"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43)


"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity....
"Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....
"...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little....
"Christianity the liar....
"We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." (p 49-52)



"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."



"Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer....
"The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation....
"Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea." (p 63-65)



"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... ....
"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." (p 118-119)


"Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself....
"Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics." (p 119 & 120)



"There is something very unhealthy about Christianity." (p 339)




"It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie."
"Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)






I don't care what Hitler grew up with, by the time he was a nutcase terror he was not a Christian or Atheist, he was an Occultist.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So there seems to be some dispute over wheter Hitler was Christian or not. My personal belief is that many Christians don't actually believe what they preach or support, but this is complete conjecture on my part, of course.

And this isn't about tallying up the atrocities of each party. Of Course the Roman Catholic church prayed for him, and he promoted them, and God (even on the belts of the military) ""Gott Mit Uns" - But again, we can't be sure of his personal beliefs, he certainly understood the importance of a tool like religion because it is a great multiplier, a great intensifier.

Can we get back on topic please. Have you any comments regarding the OP, rather than someone refuting the old "Mao, Stalin" chesnut?

Peace, and civility.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Just like the article says Hitler was brought up Catholic, but when he was a raving nutjob he had converted to be a lover of the Occult.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Historian Richard Overy maintains that Hitler was not a Christian, nor was his ideology influenced by Christianity, but believed in Arthur de Gobineau's ideas of struggle for survival between the different races, among which the "Aryan race" — guided by a pantheistic "providence" — was supposed to be the torchbearers of civilization

SOURCES: -Overy, R. J. 2004. The dictators: Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia. New York: W.W. Norton & Co. pp 180-82
-Fest, Joachim C. 1974. Hitler. New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich. p. 56.
-Ellenberger, Henri F. 1970. The discovery of the unconscious; the history and evolution of dynamic psychiatry. New York: Basic Books. p. 235.

en.wikipedia.org...

Hitler often associated atheism with Germany's communist enemy.

SOURCES: "The speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939"

books.google.com...

Again, we can't confirm Hitlers true personal beliefs, we can only speculate. And it would be wrong of both parties to "tally up" atrocities throughout history.

This thread is regarding the soladarity between those with and without faith, and sharing thoughts and opinions on our struggle for a common humanism. If you don't mind; i'd like to try and keep this related to the OP.

Peace, and civility.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


I don't think it is wise or accurate to call Hitler an Atheist either, he certainly was a Theist. But it's not true to call him a Christian, Catholicism is much more accurate, and that was in his early years. When he was murdering millions upon millions of Jews AND Christians he was an Occultist.

I'd agree about this being "off-Topic", but I'm not going to sit here and let others lump Hitler in the Christianity group when his words after 1941ish were despising Christianity and his actions were nothing similar to the teachings of Jesus Christ. That's ignorance.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


He might not be Christian, but being Christian has never prevented people from committing atrocities throughout history; like i said; this is a farcical effort - to tally up the abhorrents acts committed by both sides; Whether it be Non-religious dictators; or fanatical crusaders.

Let's get back on topic.

Peace.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

He might not be Christian, but being Christian has never prevented people from committing atrocities throughout history; like i said; this is a farcical effort - to tally up the abhorrents acts committed by both sides; Whether it be Non-religious dictators; or fanatical crusaders.

Let's get back on topic.

Peace.

My history might be a tad rusty, but during the inquisitions weren't the Christians being tortured and burned at the stake by the RCC?? Point being, Christ warned vehemently that there would be "wolves in sheep's clothing", and that we'd know the sheep from those wolves posing as sheep by their "fruits".

I believe there are in fact wolves posing as sheep. The way to tell the difference is NOT the speech but the actions.

Anyone with a taste for murdering innocent people is by default not a Christian. I'd have no objections to getting back to the topic, if you'd drop the slander. Again, I won't sit here and let idiotic slander fester in the noonday sun.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Then the God of the Old Tesatament is guilty of being an entity with a "taste for murdering innocent people".

Amalekites is just on example of genocide; Jesus agrees with and insists upon the law of the Old Testament too; the New Testament fulfilling much of the "prophecy" in the Old.

It's very easy to customise Jesus however you like.

Do you believe what the New Testament states about homosexuality? Or do you not? Is your version of Jesus willing to facilitate this kind of love within his heart? Or does he contradict the document you put faith in?

It's very easy to have a personal Jesus figure in your head; and pretend that it's a separate theism to that of the original founding documents of Christianity.

Please, to avoid further refutations and theoligical discussion; please discuss the OP; thanks.

LOL alot of atheist have graces. God supplies in different forms. Not all of them are evil as not all christians are hypocrites.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Then the God of the Old Tesatament is guilty of being an entity with a "taste for murdering innocent people".

God is God. No one is "innocent" compared to a perfect and Holy God. It's wrong for us to play God, but not for God. He is sovereign, it's His universe. If a creature violates His decrees it's the fault of the creature, not the Creator.

God doesn't judge you or I to the drunk beating his wife down the street, God judges us compared to His Son. We are imperfect and "grade on a curve", He is Holy. You're comparing apples to catfish.

Amalekites is just on example of genocide; Jesus agrees with and insists upon the law of the Old Testament too; the New Testament fulfilling much of the "prophecy" in the Old.

The Amalekites were half-breed demigods (Nephilim) from the Genesis 6 issue with fallen angels. That's why God wanted every man woman and child wiped out, they were the "seed of the serpent" spoken on in Genesis 3. If a person doesn't understand Genesis 6 they will err on a majority of the OT. Most don't consider Genesis 6 or the "seed of the serpent" from Genesis 3. The Rephaim were the same half-breeds.

And Jesus IS the spirit of prophecy, everything points to Him. Every feast, every prophecy, every ritual, every detail of the tabernacle, every single thing in the OT points to Him.

It's very easy to customise Jesus however you like.

In layman's terms that's a "straw man" or idolatry.

Do you believe what the New Testament states about homosexuality? Or do you not? Is your version of Jesus willing to facilitate this kind of love within his heart? Or does he contradict the document you put faith in?

Jesus died for the homosexual too. Sin is sin to a Holy just God. Jesus said there was only one sin that was unforgivable, and it wasn't homosexuality. Jesus loves the homosexual just as much as the murderer, the liar, the thief, the prostitute and the drunk. He said He did NOT come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

It's very easy to have a personal Jesus figure in your head; and pretend that it's a separate theism to that of the original founding documents of Christianity.

No argument there, that's called "idolatry".

Please, to avoid further refutations and theoligical discussion; please discuss the OP; thanks.

I don't think so, for the third time if you don't want to discuss this, don't slander, misrepresent, or ask me questions regarding this stuff. I won't sit here and not refute error and inaccuracies. If you remember, I didn't bring up Hitler to slander Christians.

So there's only one good Atheist? And even he's not good enough for some. Wow. I'd love to know how "Christian" our more vocal posters are on ATS. I'd like to know the charitable acts and the following of jesus's actions they do on a daily basis. I imagine most are the talk the talk type hypocrites.