Gold/Silver OTC trading illegal for US residents after July 15, 2011?

Listen guys,

This is ONLY FOR THE OTC INSTRUMENTS that you can trade through most FX firms. They have changed the leverage rules and a bunch of stuff. In fact, this is the last to go because they have already limited the leverage for US customers a long while ago.

This DOES NOT EFFECT ANY SORT OF PHYSICAL HOLDINGS OR FUTURES CONTRACTS OR OPTIONS CONTRACTS.

Time to buy lots of silver and gold but mostly silver because it is highly undervalued. Silver should be around $80. an ounce based on the traditional 20:1 ratio of gold and silver which has been a constant for 5000 years . 20 ounces of silver for one ounce of gold.Buy more silver! This is awesome news.

But whats this thing on not being able to own more than 1/4 ounce of gold. Is that fact? Could someone explain that to me.
Did Obama really pass a law like that? Someone who knows something about this explain this to me.

I'm willing to bet silver will skyrocket after the 15th of July . Based on the truth I've been able to uncover here.Before people fear monger do some reading instead of flying off the handle.

Well, we will have to see what happens in 11 days. The FEDS announcement on their QE2 - they say it is ending, but who are they kidding. How are they going to start up QE3, without sounding like they are.

Isn't it sad? I mean look at us - worried about a shiny rock that gives paper value. It's a rock - and as long as people let "them" make it valuable - we all lose.

Shouldn't other things be of more value than a resource or precious metal? The only people who make these things precious are the elites, who force us to accept their currency.

This summer, I am growing a huge farm in my back yard - this winter I will go hydroponic in my basement. The system and rule we all live under sucks, and is oppressive... it will collapse.

Tell me - if your family is starving, what is more valuable - food or a piece of gold. Yes, you could say that you could go out and buy food with that gold, but what if food is scarce (you can't eat gold)? I don't need gold, I need food and my family.

United States government, congressmen, politicians, lawmakers and bankers are most corrupted low-life creatures in the world. They should drop dead.

I can't believe what's happening. It's getting worse everyday. Endless media propaganda, staged terrorist attacks, military invasions to economic frauds.

By making gold/silver OTC trading illegal to most US residents, the end game is loud and clear. Because they know that if all gold/silver traders are to take physical deliveries, COMEX and JP Morgan frauds will be exposed.

reply to post by Dbriefed


Thanks for the heads up.

Reading this further, it has Cass Sunstein's fingerprints all over it.

regulate the piss out of what you cant make illegal!

This has to do with some BS of delivering the product within 28 days, a stupid test for managers to take,ect.

www.zerohedge.com...

Elimination of OTC Metals

As for OTC precious metals such as gold or silver, Section 742(a) of the Act prohibits any person [which again includes companies]from entering into, or offering to enter into, a transaction in any commodity with a person that is not an eligible contract participant or an eligible commercial entity, on a leveraged or margined basis. This provision intends to expand the narrow so called “Zelener fix” in the Farm Bill previously ratified by congress in 2008. The Farm Bill empowered the CFTC to pursue anti-fraud actions involving rolling spot transactions and/or other leveraged forex transactions without the need to prove that they are futures contracts. The Dodd-Frank Act now expands this authority to include virtually all retail cash commodity market products that involve leverage or margin – in other words OTC precious metals.

The prohibition of Section 742(a) does not apply, however, if such a transaction results in actual delivery within 28 days, or creates an enforceable obligation to deliver between a seller and a buyer that have the ability to deliver, and accept delivery of, the commodity in connection with their lines of business. This may be problematic as in most spot metals trading virtually all contracts fail to meet these requirements. As a result, although the courts’ interpretation of Section 742(a) is unknown, Section 742(a) is likely to have a significantly negative impact on the OTC cash precious metals industry. Here too, it is essential that those who offer to be a counterparty to OTC metals transactions seek professional help to discuss possible operational and regulatory contingency plans.

I dont think they are going to totally kill trading....YET.

What the hell does any of this have to do with a "Farm" bill?

I love the "contractual" specification. We are "commercial entities".for sure now.

Dodd and Frank.... Frank needs to drag ( ) Dodd out of the closet.


To all you government bastards.....keep pushing us.

reply to post by kroms33


well when you have no food left and no physical silver or gold that means the only thing you will have to trade is your wife or daughter. You might not be able to eat a metal but you can buy what you want if ou have it.

Sorry to be so truthful but people who say what you say need to wake up a little food perishes metal doesn't

Well, we now know why Beck isn't on anymore --no more of those Gold buying commercials anymore as of July, lol.

Wow, I can't believe this is happening!

Well, one thing...you can't say they didn't warn us. All of those gold buying commercials, all of the warning signs.

Welcome to the last stage.

Everyone stop and read this.

Here's the Facts:

1. This is a regulation to curb speculation on the OTC markets by prohibiting trading in spot forex with retail investors unless the trader is subject to regulations by a Federal regulatory agency, i.e. CFTC, SEC, etc

The Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (“Act”) has changed a number of laws in all of the securities acts including the Commodity Exchange Act. Two specific changes deal with certain transactions in commodities on the spot market. Specifically, Section 742 of the Act deals with retail commodity transactions. In this section, the text of the Commodity Exchange Act is amended to include new Section 2(c)(2)(D) (dealing with retail commodity transactions) and new Section 2(c)(2)(E) (prohibiting trading in spot forex with retail investors unless the trader is subject to regulations by a Federal regulatory agency, i.e. CFTC, SEC, etc.).

The Forex.com’s interpretation of the law stems primarily from Section 742(a) of the Dodd-Frank act which “prohibits any person [which again includes companies]from entering into, or offering to enter into, a transaction in any commodity with a person that is not an eligible contract participant or an eligible commercial entity, on a leveraged or margin basis.”

What does this mean, you ask...well essentially this means that any spot commodities transaction (i.e. spot metals) will be subject to CFTC jurisdiction and rule-making authority, but there is an exemption for commodities which are actually delivered within 28 days.

The prohibition of Section 742(a) does not apply, however, if such a transaction results in actual delivery within 28 days, or creates an enforceable obligation to deliver between a seller and a buyer that have the ability to deliver, and accept delivery of, the commodity in connection with their lines of business. This may be problematic as in most spot metals trading virtually all contracts fail to meet these requirements. As a result, although the courts’ interpretation of Section 742(a) is unknown, Section 742(a) is likely to have a significantly negative impact on the OTC cash precious metals industry. Here too, it is essential that those who offer to be a counter-party to OTC metals transactions seek professional help to discuss possible operational and regulatory contingency plans.

2. Nothing in this regulation prohibits or restricts the buying and selling of PM coinage or bullion on the open market by the common person. Only the derivative and future markets of the comex/forex.

3. This will, in effect, stop most speculation price swings. It will also cause prices to fall, just like the housing market did when speculator left. but that I feel is what the government wants it to do for deflationary reasons.

My advise is to sell then buy at the lower price point of 40-60% less than today.

Originally posted by kroms33
Isn't it sad? I mean look at us - worried about a shiny rock that gives paper value. It's a rock - and as long as people let "them" make it valuable - we all lose.

Shouldn't other things be of more value than a resource or precious metal? The only people who make these things precious are the elites, who force us to accept their currency.

This summer, I am growing a huge farm in my back yard - this winter I will go hydroponic in my basement. The system and rule we all live under sucks, and is oppressive... it will collapse.

Tell me - if your family is starving, what is more valuable - food or a piece of gold. Yes, you could say that you could go out and buy food with that gold, but what if food is scarce (you can't eat gold)? I don't need gold, I need food and my family.

Invest in ammo as well.

Lead will help you keep your gold LOL!

Frontier alchemy!

Originally posted by QuantumDisciple
This helps explain it

"Elimination of OTC Metals"

As for OTC precious metals such as gold or silver, Section 742(a) of the Act prohibits any person [which again includes companies] from entering into, or offering to enter into, a transaction in any commodity with a person that is not an eligible contract participant or an eligible commercial entity, on a leveraged or margined basis. This provision intends to expand the narrow so called “Zelener fix” in the Farm Bill previously ratified by congress in 2008. The Farm Bill empowered the CFTC to pursue anti-fraud actions involving rolling spot transactions and/or other leveraged forex transactions without the need to prove that they are futures contracts. The Dodd-Frank Act now expands this authority to include virtually all retail cash commodity market products that involve leverage or margin – in other words OTC precious metals. ...

This only involves leveraged or margin trading.

edit on 18-6-2011 by QuantumDisciple because: (no reason given)

I also found this explanation. It seems to still be legal if the material actually makes it to your hands.

The prohibition of Section 742(a) does not apply, however, if such a transaction results in actual delivery within 28 days, or creates an enforceable obligation to deliver between a seller and a buyer that have the ability to deliver, and accept delivery of, the commodity in connection with their lines of business. This may be problematic as in most spot metals trading virtually all contracts fail to meet these requirements. As a result, although the courts’ interpretation of Section 742(a) is unknown, Section 742(a) is likely to have a significantly negative impact on the OTC cash precious metals industry. Here too, it is essential that those who offer to be a counterparty to OTC metals transactions seek professional help to discuss possible operational and regulatory contingency plans.

More information

The actual Act

I can see a need to limit trading metals on paper only. That way a corporation like JP Morgan cannot sell more gold than it actually has in reserve.

I was worried because I collect coins and thought this bill would eliminate that as well.

Originally posted by CarlitosAmsel
WASHINGTON, D.C. — President Barack Obama today banned private ownership of more than a quarter ounce of gold, saying the move was necessary to revive the economy.

"Wealthy Americans are bailing out on the economy by taking their money out of circulation and hoarding gold," Obama said as he signed an executive order reminiscent of Depression-era President Franklin D. Roosevelt's ban on the possession of gold. skinnyreporter.com...

So everybody told Americans, even Alex Jones did, tu buy GOLD GOLD GOLD. Now Obama comes and steals it from you, which means, you have lost a tremendous chunck of your wealth and gave it, to whom? In end effect probably to ISRAEL!

edit on 19-6-2011 by CarlitosAmsel because: (no reason given)

You keep pushing this silliness! Why? Did you miss the gold/silver train? Jealous?

Make sure you double-check your "skinnyreporter", and realize it's right up there with the Onion.

The problem is, lots of people don't realize it's a JOKE. Perhaps Carlitos doesn't know either?

Anyway, IGNORE this nonsense folks. There are a couple of people posting in this thread that are very knowledgeable, and have explained that this is no big deal. But, there are goofballs too.

NO, Obama hasn't outlawed gold ownership over a quarter of an ounce! RIDICULOUS!

"Could" this really happen one day? Maybe. But why would anyone bother?

The fact is, Americans don't own much gold, at all! The average person has a ring on their finger. Some of the ladies might even have some earrings!

They could confiscate all the gold held by Americans, and barely fill up a small Japanese pick-up truck.

Most of the gold is "officially" held by the central banks of the world. As for the common person, you would have to go to places like India to find gold in the hands of the common people.

Let's deny ignorance. Please, no more "skinnyreporter"...

JR

I want to make sure I understand what is being said... treat me like the bright and lovable six year old on this...

Your saying...

1) law goes into effect gold over twenty ounces total will be siezed....

2) foreign exchanges have stopped dealing in some OTC because of the new regulations...


now for the questions...
1)does canada have the same regulations....



(yes every prohibition creates its bootleggers)

(its a southern thing.....)


because the tricks can be worked pretty easily... cant own gold as a US citizen... a foreign corporation can... and If I own that corporation well....

to that effect.....

what the hell Everyone who has silver what are your plans? I don't have a clue. first i've heard of this

what the hell Everyone who has silver what are your plans? I don't have a clue. first i've heard of this

reply to post by vkturbo


All you have to do is GROW your own food, can it and make sure you DON'T run out

Originally posted by felonius

Originally posted by kroms33
Isn't it sad? I mean look at us - worried about a shiny rock that gives paper value. It's a rock - and as long as people let "them" make it valuable - we all lose.

Shouldn't other things be of more value than a resource or precious metal? The only people who make these things precious are the elites, who force us to accept their currency.

This summer, I am growing a huge farm in my back yard - this winter I will go hydroponic in my basement. The system and rule we all live under sucks, and is oppressive... it will collapse.

Tell me - if your family is starving, what is more valuable - food or a piece of gold. Yes, you could say that you could go out and buy food with that gold, but what if food is scarce (you can't eat gold)? I don't need gold, I need food and my family.

Invest in ammo as well.

Lead will help you keep your gold LOL!

Frontier alchemy!

WHoops

HOW COULD I FORGET GUNS AND AMMO?? LOL

Sorry I missed that one, good call. Food, Water, Guns, and Ammo... I don't need gold or silver to survive.

Originally posted by PaganArchangel
This can't be for real (I mean it could be I'm just dumbfounded)....
No OTC precious metals buying for the regular folks after 1700 on July 15, 2011?!
Ok, now this is disturbing.
I have never lived in a time in this country where I couldn't purchase gold or silver OTC.
I have even more of a feeling that something is very, very wrong here.
It will be interesting to see what the general public thinks about this (when it gets around the grapevine).
Yikes.

I think folks are completely skipping the "over the counter" part of the statement.

That means stocks, bonds, other debt securities. Definition of "over the counter" is at this link

It doesn't mean the metals.

Some Forex trading (some of which have been shut down for trading in imaginary gold), some other stock type investments offered by private firms are affected.

It doesn't affect my silver coin collection. It won't impact my ability to buy silver coins today or next week or ten weeks from now. I can still buy or sell 1923 minted $20 gold St. Gaudiens coins. I can buy gold Kuggerands (if I can find them.)

It does shut down some of the shadier "over the counter" (sort of "over here on the unregulated market where the big guys aren't going" deal) of "shares of gold."

(foo. ATS really liked my last post and made a duplicate of it)

I think that the "scare mentality" of the times means that people will hit some sort of "alert trigger" words in articles and immediately assume it relates directly to what they're concerned about. (I agree with Obi1 that the Forex article is pure scare tactics from a rational point of view -- and is also based in the idea that THEY may be shut down from trading in the US... so they're scared. Some of the Forex "paper" really is very speculative.