Judge has harsh words for Mom before sentencing her for spanking her kid

Originally posted by SteveR
There's something wrong with the parenting if violence is required.

I was in a Dollar General store when a Grandmother was actually trying to get away from a very abusive little girl. Maybe 8- 10 years old. This child was slapping her grandmother because she would not buy her what she wanted.
The Grandmother kept telling her she could not afford it.
The child started to beat the grandmother on the chest when a woman stepped in and told the child she was going to call the police if she did not stop hitting her Grandmother. The customers and I were stunned at the behavior of this little girl.
She stopped hitting her Grandmother and her Grandmother left the cart full of things sitting there and took the little girl out of the store. As soon as she was outside this child started in on the lady again. I felt so sorry for the lady.

That child definitely needed some serious discipline.

That's insane. I mean, if she'd left bruises or something, it would be different. Personally, I acknowledge spanking to be an uncivilized way of discipline, but kids are quite uncivilized themselves, and sometimes you have to speak their language.

Originally posted by dolphinfan


A felony? This woman gets a felony conviction for giving her kid a typical spanking?

But what right does this judge think that he can tell this woman not to mildly spank her child?

Spanking a child mildly is an effective tool in teaching disciplining a child. Certainly it should be used after other methods are attempted, but giving a kid a swat on the kiester is not child abuse and certainly should not be considered a felony.

The kid was not harmed, the kid was taken to the hospital and no injury observed.

The entire business was brought forth by the paternal grandmother? Is it likely that there is a bit of bad blood between the two? Absolutely.

If we had our kids totally doped up on drugs the way the elite would prefer there would not be any misbehaving, so perhaps the solution to not get convicted of a felony when, after other methods of displine fail, you give your kid a spanking.


www.volunteertv.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

yeh we had this go to our courts here in Canada and they voted that we can spank just no belts or bruises fair nough I think and as a parent of four boys I got to say a spank from time to time works wonders...

tho its always our last option..

reply to post by greeneyedleo

My 2 yr old son removed our yard gate lock and ran out in front of a concrete truck coming up the driveway. We live on a busy hwy and he knows that our biggest rule is to never leave the yard. I found it fully acceptable to swat his rear once I caught him. Luckily the truck seen him coming and stopped in time. But I will admit that his little rear was red from my hand for several minutes afterward. Maybe he will now associate a little pain with going outside the gate. Maybe it will save his little precious life.

reply to post by gnosticquasar

She did leave the "or something". Lasting red marks. I know that doesn't sound like a big deal in print but it was concerning to the grandparent and the authorities. I already did the experiment of slapping my own arm to see how much force leaves what kinds of marks. A good hard hit left a mark that lasted barely a minute. The child in question was only two years old and had red marks that lasted long enough to be seen and documented. It takes a pretty hard hit to do that to a child. This wasn't just a swat on the butt most moms and dads do. I got some good spankings in my day and didn't endure marks like that. Leave an open mind on this one. I advocate a parent's right to spank as a means of discipline, but not when they cross the line to inflicting that much injury.

reply to post by curious7


yes there is! I recommend an in-depth study into the words pater, parens patriae, inc., Jesus, last Adam and anti-Christ

suppose there are also many cases where the child (older than two of course) has fought the Parent back to avoid a spanking and bruised themselves trying to get out of "it" (I know I did a few times) and fair skinned is an issue as well

He who spares his rod hates his son,
But he who loves him disciplines him promptly. -Proverbs13

reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain


Okay I checked one source and it looks legitimate. Here is what the law states in Texas where this supposed incident occurred.

Abuse does not include reasonable discipline by a parent/guardian/managing or possessory conservator if child not exposed to substantial risk of harm. Family Code § 261.001. [Civil Code] Parent/stepparent/person standing in loco parentis to child is justified to use non-deadly force against a child under 18 when and to degree the actor reasonably believes necessary to discipline, or safeguard or promote child's welfare. Penal § 9.61. [Criminal Code]

kidjacked.com...

This story listed in the OP sounds like someone is not reading the law very good including the judge. A spanking generally leaves a red mark, or you didn't do it too well.

Oh please! I don't hit my kids and they are well rounded and polite people.
They're not out running the streets and being a problem to society.
I've not had any issues with them, one is now 13 and the other is 9. We talk about problems and use a consequence system. They misbehave I take away privileges. They know the deal.
We have mutual respect and that is how it needs to be. I do not inflict any sort of violence on my children and they do not inflict violence on me or on their peers.

You do not need to hit your kids! It's as simple as that!
Nobody has the right to hit their kids for any reason at all and I am sick of people carrying on as though they have had their parenting rights taken away by the government.
If you need to hit your kid, you have massive parenting problems that need addressing.
Hitting kids is abuse just like hitting a spouse is abuse.

I would like to know where the law is, that allowed this case to go forward.

reply to post by ellieN

That sounds like the kid not only never got discipline, she got no parental attention or guidance worth a crap ever. You start from the moment they are old enough to ask for toys, teaching them to ask nicely. Tantrums in stores need to be met with an immediate departure with desired items left behind and a stern lecture when they are small. It need never escalate to the point physical discipline if you start early and remain consistent in enforcing expected behavior.

And when I see a small child running amok and the parent standing there oblivious to it all, I just stand in total shock. The zombie apocalypse may very well be upon is, judging from how dead to the world some parents seem to be. I am always surprised when I go to the park and the moms just stand there yakking and don't pay any heed to their kids tormenting other kids and ripping apart trees and terrorizing the wildlife. They don't need to spank if they at least start talking and correcting their kids, but they can't be bothered to do even that much.

reply to post by Bee2010


I have to smack my child's hands frequently as it is the only form of discipline he seems to understand. That and loud noises will make him stop and reconsider his actions. Tell me I am a bad parent, and I will explain to you why this is necessary. My child is 5 years old. Should I not discipline him in this manner? How should I discipline him?

LOL, I was once spanked for getting terrible grades in school. Since then I've been a student who works hard and gets good grades. I don't think if my father said "Son, try to focus on school, it will help your future" I would have taken it seriously.

Originally posted by Unity_99
I would like to know where the law is, that allowed this case to go forward.

The mother pleading guilty to a bogus charge is what allowed this to go forward. If she plead innocent, the same would be true. Had she challenged the jurisdiction and refused to plead until actual jurisdiction was proven on record, it is doubtful this would have moved forward and the scolding judge would have been saying something else all together. The mothers own plea of guilt empowered an arrogant judge and encouraged this nonsense.

Originally posted by beezzer
And people wonder why the kids today are so messed up. No discipline. No structure. No moral guidance. No attention, period!

I love my son. I spend time with him. I talk to him. And in the past, I swatted his butt. He learned. He learned that there are consequences for certain actions. Cause and effect.

He does bad, he gets punished. Children today can act with impunity because they have no fear, no remorse for an incorrect action.

Someone obviously didn't spank the judge enough!

I totally agree. My boys got the occasional swat and they new what "1..2.3..' meant , that there would be consequenses if they didn't do what they were 'asked' to do. The trick is following thru with what ever standards you have set up in your house. Cause and effect. By the time they got to 5 or 6 we didn't have to do anything but talk to them and sometimes count 1..2... and they new we meant business. Time out didn't phase them much but I saw 'go to the corner' on one of the OLD shows like Andy Griffith and tried it and they totally hated it. It was so simple and made an impact on them the few times I tried it. You would have thought 5 minutes was 5 hours !! God love 'em...

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


That appears to be a likely scenario. Her lawyer needs to have his license suspended then. Same goes for the judge allowing a guilty plea for a crime that appears not to have the elements present to allege a crime.

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

That appears to be a likely scenario. Her lawyer needs to have his license suspended then. Same goes for the judge allowing a guilty plea for a crime that appears not to have the elements present to allege a crime.

Actually, that licensed attorney swore a fealty to the court and became an "officer of the court" upon licensing. Licensed attorneys do not have their clients best interest at heart, they have the courts "best interest" at heart.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and while a defendant can allege incompetence in regards to her attorney, she would have been wiser still to simply know that the charges brought against her were bogus. It was - legally speaking - simulation of legal process, acting under color of law, impersonation of a government official, and obstruction of justice. These very real crimes were committed while this poor woman ignorantly pleaded guilty to no crime at all.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


I spank but I don't leave red marks that linger. We are talking about a two year old in this case of the OP. There are times when I affectionately pat my kid on the head and she says "ouch" that hurts, and I am reminded what seems like minor action from me feels quite forceful to a child They are smaller than us. Hitting is startling and attention getting enough. It is actually the noise and the action itself that holds the effect for a two year old. A slight sting is the extra bit to get the message across. Leaving lingering red marks that last beyond an hour is too much force on too small and young of a child.

I will admit I have no idea how much force to apply in spanking a little boy around eight or older. I have a six year old daughter, nearly seven now, and we seemed to have moved beyond any kind of behavior on her part where I feel a need to spank to get my point across. She is intelligent, articulate and amenable to other forms of discipline at this point. I suppose if I had Dennis the Menace for a kid I would agree with your statement. I just can't, given that the child in the OP is a two year old. When my child was two and spanking seemed the best way at times, I never once found it necessary to hit hard enough to leave any kind of lingering mark. A few times all I needed to do was haul her across my lap and ask "Do I have to settle this with a spanking or are you ready to listen to me?"

I suspect, based on the results, that mom had a habit of hitting her kid in anger and letting that get the best of her instead of thinking out what really would be the best method in a situation. The judge did grant her probation and classes. Maybe he is trying to help, not just punish. There isn't really enough in that one article to really judge any of them fairly.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
This is all just my opinion and it absolutely goes against the grain here...

As a mother...and someone who as a child was spanked with hands and objects such as paddles and belts (and it went too far, often). I grew to disrespect and absolute fear of my parents not love and respect for them. It taught me nothing except to fear them and hate them.

I am absolutely against spanking. I actually cringe and feel anxiety when I see a parent hit a child. Spanking is hitting, IMO. If an adult used the same on another adult, it would be an assault. I do not believe that inflicting physical pain and absolute fear on another person is a good way of teaching a person. I'm not sure how hitting an adult is wrong, but hitting a child is justified. Leaving a mark on a child??? Uh. No. That is abuse IMO.

I have never had to hit for punishment. My daughter has never been so out of control or "bad" that I felt the need to take my hand (or an object) and inflict physical pain on her. So many other ways of disciplining her that works.

With that said....there is not enough to this story. But as it is currently presented, I do not believe punishment for the mother is deserved. I do not support this type of discipline at all....but I am not the parents to other kids...and to each their own I suppose....

edit on June 17th 2011 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)

Guess what, a smack on the bum is a last resort to a child who after every other technique still will not listen.
An adult who gets a punch in the face for being a tosser, is just a child who never learned boundaries.

My daughter does not love me any less and infact respects the boundaries that need to be in place FOR HER OWN Safety.

This will always be a touchy area. But smack me on the bum! Thats how things are at this time in our house.

They work.. for us,, not for every one

Its difficult being a parent these days, Im a single mother and discipline confuses me, if my daughter is running riot in the shopping centre and she doesnt listen when I growl her sternly then people look at me like I am an unfit mother, if I give her a small smack on the hand or bum (not a whack, just small you know to get her attention) and she cries (but stops running riot I might add) I am still looked at like I am filth! I just cant win!
If I dont give her smacks will she be a brat when she is older, or will she be traumitised if I do smack her? I dont think she will be traumatised because my mum used to smack me when I was a kid and I dont think I turned out that bad, on the other hand I have a friend who's mum disciplined her the same way and she believes she was traumatised by it This is the only part of parenting that I struggle with and I am absolutly paranoid that no matter what I do (discipline wise) I will mess it all up, throwing the thought that the government could take away my child if I dont get it right, into the mix does not help.....

Well, I never spanked my child. I tried to rely on common sense and it seemed to work well. For example, if my child (during the terrible two's) threw a tantrum, I calmly told her that what she was doing was not appropriate. And would not alter the situation in any way. And, that throwing a tantrum will assure her of never getting what she originally wanted. If she kept it up anyways, I closed the door and walked away. They want a reaction, and guess what, she didn't get it. Grocery store tantrums happened maybe twice. First I would explain that tantrums = no end result. Then with her sitting in a crumpled crying mess, I would tell her, "lets go to the meat isle", and I would start walking fast. The tears would stop, and she would run to catch up. And totally forget that she was upset. Her terrible twos lasted less than a month. Whew! And that short spell was the most she ever misbehaved.

Her teenage hormonal spell lasted maybe 2 weeks and was a breeze. One day, I got the "oh you don't love me and I am running away", bit. Ok what kid doesn't pull this one? I wrapped my arms around her and gave her a huge bear hug. And said, honey I love you too much to let you go anywhere. That was the end of that. I guess she knew she could never get away with claiming I didn't love her or care for her. Later that night, we sat and watched TV together like nothing happened. And I asked her, so what was that about? Here she was upset about her best friend going to live with their father. Which I was already aware of. So I told her that perhaps she bottled her feelings about this too much. So we talked a bit more during her teenage hormonal years. Warning, don't ask for honesty unless you are prepared to hear it.

But perhaps not everyone is as blessed with a well tempered child. I have seen some children with severe agressive behavior problems. A real handful to control. And I am not certain if it was from violent parental beahavior or just genetics. So I really can't say that spanking is right or wrong. For my situation, it was not needed. The courts really need to butt out.