The Growth of Atheism and What it Means for Our Future

reply to post by flyingfish


Your view and understanding of religion is digracefully ignorant.

"Science without religion is lame
Religion without science is blind"

reply to post by NewAgeMan


You should go back to being unheard and so misunderstood by all subsequent posts, like a voice crying out in the wilderness, ignored completely.
It's not that your misunderstood it's more like I tend to ignore sophomoric posts.

Why, cry out for attention? just because people do not respond does not mean that no one has read it. That is the point of this communication to let your ideas and thoughts flow and it provides a place where they can be read by anyone willing to read it.

I am aware of "spiritual" experience. I allow myself to have them when they won't interfere with mission critical planning. They are entertaining. I'm also aware that this is produced by my mind which is physical. I am aware of how this is me helping me in a less structured way.

reply to post by Annee


Hello I have read most of this thread, not all, so if someone has made this observation already sorry.
I have read your...antitestimony and a number of your posts so I have an idea of where you are coming from.
Getting back to the original question (rise of atheism & what it means) I would pose a question, perhaps simply for reflection or rhetorical; the current percentages, let us say for argument, would be 5% atheist 95% believer not addressing agnostic & other. What would happen if the percentages were reversed? Atheists generally contend that we believers are delusional. For being so darn delusional we operate pretty good; we raise families, hold down careers, pay taxes etc. Whether we do this better than atheists is open for debate. Would atheists be tempted to round us up for "treatment" There was a psychiatrist that contended that after his therapy if a person still believed in God he considered it a failure. We are often accused of being intolerant would it be any different or worse if you all were on top? Agnostics are pretty mellow, ambivalent and probably would not care, if all atheists were minded like yourself and were in the 95% majority you would probably leave us alone. Anyways just something to consider.

Originally posted by LafingWithTears 5% atheist 95% believer

Of course we would leave you alone. Is there a fear amongst the religious that we want to lock you up? I understand the religious are perfectly capable of following the rules, laws, and customs of their society. This will definitely get you by in life. What I'm looking for are changes to the rules, laws, and customs. I don't think this can happen while a majority consider this life a blip of consciousness compared to the eternal bliss of the wished for afterlife.

reply to post by gentledissident


No there is no such fear, at least not prevalent, that I know of, that was just my own paranoid idea
Political regimes that have tried to erase the whole religion/belief in God thing have not had a good track record on improving laws & customs. I do not know if you can blame mediocre socities that are noy improving on a collective tendency to believe in a supreme being.

reply to post by gentledissident


I am sorry; NOT improving

Originally posted by LafingWithTears
if all atheists were minded like yourself and were in the 95% majority you would probably leave us alone. Anyways just something to consider.

First off Atheist only means lack of belief in a Deity. Beyond that Atheists are individual. They are not a group think.

Not all Atheists are what is referred to as Hard Atheist - - that only what is proven is fact - - or that there is nothing beyond physical. There are Spiritual Atheists.

What do I think would be different?

I think we'd be much further along in science and medicine.

Decisions would be based more in logic then emotion.

People being social beings would still create groups to bond together with same interests. Some of these groups would be for charity purposes and to help those in need.

We wouldn't have this stupid issue of gays not being equal.

reply to post by ztruthseeker

"Also, religion has completely bastardized spirituality. We need more spirituality, but unfortunately, its now been linked to religion. I would like to see people embracing this experience called life, and try to make it better for all living things.

I think atheism would defiantly help shape a more positive future."

Don't you know what Atheism does? It totally destroys spirituality. You don't just see Dawking attacking God and religion you see him attacking spirituality itself and everything else in between. Technically you can be spiritual but still be an atheist by technical definition. But the overwhelming majority of atheists are anti-spiritual. At least ones on the internet.

I personally would like to believe the world is more than just this pointless meaningless hopeless place.
I hate the idea of non-existence and while I admit that there may be no conscious postmortem existence of any form whatsoever. I would still like to believe there is something more.

So positive? What is so positive about knowing your life is meaningless and everything you do will be for nothing because you will cease to exist after death and it will be as if you never lived your life at all?
I mean it's all find and dandy about getting rid of God and all that religion crap out of the picture but the problem is that it doesn't stop there.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by LafingWithTears
if all atheists were minded like yourself and were in the 95% majority you would probably leave us alone. Anyways just something to consider.

First off Atheist only means lack of belief in a Deity. Beyond that Atheists are individual. They are not a group think.

Not all Atheists are what is referred to as Hard Atheist - - that only what is proven is fact - - or that there is nothing beyond physical. There are Spiritual Atheists.

What do I think would be different?

I think we'd be much further along in science and medicine.

Decisions would be based more in logic then emotion.

People being social beings would still create groups to bond together with same interests. Some of these groups would be for charity purposes and to help those in need.

We wouldn't have this stupid issue of gays not being equal.

About 95% of atheists are "Hard Core" atheists.
I haven't met a single one who believed anything more than the idea that that only what is proven is fact - - or that there is nothing beyond physical. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying most are like that.

I personally hate being around the hard core ones, they're so depressing. They're depressing because what they say is probably true. Happiness and love doesn't exist, it's only a electro-chemical reaction in the brain. When you die it will be as if you never lived at all because your consciousness ceases to exist instantly. NDE/OBE's are just hallucinations caused by a oxygen starved brain. There is no objective meaning, purpose, morality, etc in life. Blah blah blah as if they KNOW for a fact that they're right and the rest of the world is wrong.

The main thing I hate about it all is they present it as if it is solid fact. I take the stance that it's impossible to know if God/afterlife exists or not mainly because we don't even have a clear picture of what this God is. There are so many ignorant people who think that because there is no heaven or hell then that must mean there is no afterlife of any form whatsoever. How can you deny the existence of something that hasn't even been explained to you?

I don't really care about God, I just care about what happens to our consciousness after death. Personally I think our subjective reality is not a part of or dependent of objective reality, therefore it can exist separately.

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
About 95% of atheists are "Hard Core" atheists.

After being in on-line discussions for 20 years - I don't agree.

If you are meeting Hard Core Atheists in real life - my guess is - you are going to where they are. Such as in mathematical/science curriculum or intentional groups.

You would never know the average everyday person walking about - - who considers themself Atheist.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
About 95% of atheists are "Hard Core" atheists.

After being in on-line discussions for 20 years - I don't agree.

If you are meeting Hard Core Atheists in real life - my guess is - you are going to where they are. Such as in mathematical/science curriculum or intentional groups.

You would never know the average everyday person walking about - - who considers themself Atheist.

I only know a few in real life and they're all the hard core type.

Online, Idk about this website because I only started posting here today but go to Yahoo Answers R&S or Youtube and almost all of the self proclaimed atheists are the hard core type. There might be more that aren't hard core about it and I don't know it because they're not obnoxiously shouting out about how there is no god, spirit, etc. So I admit Idk about the totality of it all, I'm just going off my personal encounters.

Anyways, in your opinion what do you think the percentage of Hard Core atheists are there in the entire group?

Everything is natural. There is no supernatural. Even if an entity did create what we know, it would still be an entity.

Is my line of thinking considered hardcore?

Originally posted by AgnosticWarrior
I only know a few in real life and they're all the hard core type.

In what context? Are they all in the same place? Do they know each other?

I only have a few minutes.

I realize hard core Atheists think if you believe something that can't be proven - - that is religious. I do not agree.

The age of the universe and all it encompasses - - - is so many billions of years old - - - there simply is no way of knowing all there is to know about how life and consciousness came about.

I do believe original life and consciousness evolved naturally from energy and matter. However - - I believe humans are in-part a created race. I see nothing wrong with believing that. I don't consider it religious in any way.

I started out Christian - evolved through New Age - Spirituality etc. I now consider myself Atheist. Other people like me evolve through their journey.

Read this: THE CENTER FOR SPIRITUAL ATHEISM

Generally, Spiritual Atheists are people who do not believe in a literal "God" (thus the term "Atheist"), but still consider themselves to be (often deeply) "Spiritual" people.

There is no consensus among Spiritual Atheists regarding the literal existence of one's own "spirit" or a collective "spirit"; however, there is consensus that if any "spirit" does exist, it is not external to the universe and it is not "supernatural". Spiritual Atheists believe that nothing that exists or happens violates the nature of the universe; they believe that all such things only further define the nature of the universe.

For Spiritual Atheists, being "Spiritual" means (at the very least) to nurture thoughts, words, and actions that are in harmony with the idea that the entire universe is, in some way, connected; even if only by the mysterious flow of cause and effect at every scale.

Therefore, Spiritual Atheists generally feel that as they go about their lives striving to be personally healthy and happy, they should also be striving to help the world around them be healthy and happy. (This empowering concept is referred to as "Wholistic Ethics".)

www.spiritualatheism.com...

Originally posted by Annee
For Spiritual Atheists, being "Spiritual" means (at the very least) to nurture thoughts, words, and actions that are in harmony with the idea that the entire universe is, in some way, connected; even if only by the mysterious flow of cause and effect at every scale.

If everything were connected, would thinking about that make us more connected?

Originally posted by gentledissident
Everything is natural. There is no supernatural. Even if an entity did create what we know, it would still be an entity.

Is my line of thinking considered hardcore?

edit on 18-12-2011 by gentledissident because: (no reason given)

I don't think supernatural things exist either. That's just a term used to describe things that science doesn't have en explanation for. If a soul/spirit existed, I don't think that's supernatural.

You're only a hard core atheist if you think you know that a god, or soul/spirit does not exist. You would become an obnoxious one if you spent your time trying to argue with people about how their god doesn't exist and how meaningless our lives and all the rest of what they blab about.
You're just an atheist by technical definition if you simply lack the believe in a God or gods.

I don't believe in god, which makes me an atheist. Although I don't believe that a god does not exist. I hold the stance that you can't know for sure one way or another, so I don't claim to know that there is not one. Mostly I don't care about God/gods also making me an apatheist. Although the definition of God/gods isn't even a solid one making it pointless to try to debate on if God exists or not. Some can say the universe is God by definition. I can agree with that. Although some say God is some physical dude who surfs clouds and stuff, well that's the type that I lack a belief in. Others say he's a spirit that does not interact with our lives, and I have no idea about that one.

So atheists and theists don't even really know what they're debating.

Originally posted by gentledissident
Everything is natural. There is no supernatural. Even if an entity did create what we know, it would still be an entity.

Is my line of thinking considered hardcore?

What is supernatural?

Yes an entity is still an entity. Its just logical to me - - that life existed long before our planet was even formed.

And there are too many myths to completely ignore - - as I believe many come from a real happening.

You know - - like the Wars of the Gods - - - and the war in Heaven.

I believe they were actual events - - possibly over control of earth. Politics is everywhere.

A hard core Atheist would say I am not Atheist because I have these beliefs. Which I think is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Annee
the Wars of the Gods - - - and the war in Heaven.

I believe they were actual events

Originally posted by Annee
A hard core Atheist would say I am not Atheist

A dictionary would say you're not an atheist.

reply to post by Annee



Most of them were in the same place and probably knew each other I guess. The others are just people I met or knew at random. Some are my friends, some are just, other people.

I don't see why so many people think that if you reject religion you have to reject spirituality too. Idk why they think it's linked.

I started off Jewish, then turned into an agnostic when I started questioning if God existed or not. When breaking away from believing in God I sided with the atheists/hard core atheists, but then questioned how they knew for sure there was nothing special to the world, no afterlife, and all the other stuff they were ranting about.

What is considered a spirit? Do you consider that like a "soul" some non-physical thing that can exist separately from the material world or some sort of dualism view?

Is a literal "God" more like some physical guy with a beard who sits in the clouds and watches us and all the stuff about hell fires and etc? Maybe God is a non-physical spiritual being who may or may not have magical supernatural powers? Or maybe some sort of big collective consciousness?

There are so many different definitions of God and what God is that when I view God debates it convinced me they weren't even arguing about the same thing.

I mean I have a hard time believing in some guy with a beard who literally makes thunderstorms on earth happen and all that stuff. And when I believed in God as a child I thought of him more of a big spiritual soul like entity that somehow created us. I later learned there are people who literally believe there is a guy who surfs on clouds and spends his existence sending people to hell. It's completely understandable why someone wouldn't believe in that type of God. I mean technically we are all born atheists and are atheist when asked if we believe in gods like Thor or Zeus. But who knows of those gods did or did not exist? They could have been extra terrestrial aliens for all anyone knows. The only thing you can know for certain is that you exist. That's it, our world and universe that we live in could be a dream or matrix like computer simulation.