H.P. Lovecraft, Mathematician. Exotic Spheres May Reveal The Lair of Yog Sothoth.

i flare my gills in honor to all that have come out for this thread. i will hail dagon on june 21st. he is the closest of all the olde ones. besides shuib-nigurath that resides here in innsmouth.

Thought I would write a few things about the idea of fractals and dimensions that have been going through my head lately

Typically, mathematically, we would designate a space on a 3d chart like this:

(ax + bx) + (cy + dy) + (ez + fz) = Space H

Basically this defines a box. It is all defined from a point, because that is how we see the world, from one perspective, which is actually tied to a single point in time. When you move the position of the perspective, all the variables, a to f, change. The space remains that same, but our perspective of it changes. Maybe some of those variables become negative, and our zero function completely changes. Mathematically this has major implication, because the numbers that reset everything, are now completely different. Mathematically what I mean, is that zero times any other number is zero, but zero is only a point of origin. When the perspective changes, the point of origin changes, all the numbers change, and all the multipliers. This is only looking at the outside of the box. Each time you change your perspective, you point of origin changes, and so your understanding.

One you enter the box, all of that becomes a completely different dimension. All perspectives change in a completely different way.

Once you have finished your exploration, then you can put all the perspectives together for a much broader understanding. Now imagine if you could see all perspectives at the same time time.

reply to post by littled16


The term Necronomicon brings up a lot of connections to many works. Mostly it made me think of William Gibsons novel, "Neromancer", which I always felt came from the term Necronomicon. Gibson, who is my favorite current author, tends to have an obsession for obscur references, so it makes me wonder is the title for Neromancer wasn't a tribute to the concepts of Necronomicon.

Of course there is also "Cryptonomicon", By Neal Stephenson, which is also, IMO, similar to Necronomicon.

A little research lead me to this interesting link, I though some of you might be interested in.

www.straightdope.com...

OK, cut to the punchline. Once and for all: the Necronomicon is fiction, pure fiction, invented by H. P. Lovecraft in his stories in the 1920s. There never was such a book, not nowhere, not no-how, before that.

......

One of the recurring plot devices was the "terrible and forbidden" book, The Necronomicon, an all-purpose book of demonology, occult lore, and magic, written by "the mad Arab Abdul Alhazred." Lovecraft first made reference to The Necronomicon in "The Hound" (1922), and earlier to Abdul Alhazred in "The Nameless City" (1921).

....

In 1927, Lovecraft wrote the "History of the Necronomicon" as a tongue-in-cheek history of his mythical book. He said he did it to give "a sort of air of verisimilitude." Doubtless also to be sure that all the other writers who were making reference to the Necronomicon would be consistent.

According to Lovecraft's "History," the Necronomicon was written in the 8th Century AD by the "mad Arab" Alhazred, and was translated into Greek under the title Necronomicon by Theodorus Philetas in AD 950, then into Latin by Olias Wormius in 1228. (The real Wormius--a Danish doctor--lived from 1588 to 1654.) An "imperfect" English translation was supposedly made by Dr. John Dee (1527-1608), an English mathematician and astrologer. And so on. Lovecraft thus created a detailed background for his imaginary book.

When fans wrote Lovecraft in the 1930s to ask if these books were real, he replied truthfully (as quoted above.) In a 1936 letter, for instance, he says, "I am forced to say that most of them are purely imaginary. There never was any Abdul Alhazred or Necronomicon, for I invented these names myself."

..

Long after Lovecraft's death, several books appeared, sold privately or in bookstores, purporting to be new translations (or rediscovered copies) of the Necronomicon. Most of these are clearly spoofs or in-jokes. There are just under a dozen versions floating about, including one by Lin Carter and one by L. Sprague DeCamp, famous science fiction writers in their own right. All of them have an initial appearance that post-dates Lovecraft, usually by over 35 years.

Ah, but the imperfections of scifi evolution do seem to be having an influence on the real world.

Maybe a copy will be found in some newly discovered ancient pyramid.

Oops, also meant to add this other link that you might enjoy.

fairfieldproject.wikidot.com...

reply to post by idealord


Thanks, IdeaLord, for the wonderful post. Like the posts from upthepunx, it is these personal stories from members that make this thread and ATS so special. Where else would we hear this kind of thing?

It just makes me really happy that so many of us are still so heavily influenced b H.P.L. all these years later.


To all:
In fact there seems to be a Lovecraft renaissance happening.

All of this Math and computer science is just egging us on even harder. Don't forget that page 5 has some pretty gnarly imaging tools for modeling a lot of the math that is driving this thread not to mention Sprocket2cog's great video embedding.

Be sure to check out IdeaLord's music link and 0zzymand0s' as well. It is so cool to hear the H.P.L. influenced music run the gamut between Hard Rock and Classical. It is just too cool to see the Hutchinson Consort standing there in their evening wear holding their instruments and getting ready to perform 'The Song of R'lyeh.

It seems we are living in the time of the Götterdämmerung for Geeks.

I love it!

reply to post by poet1b


Heya, Poet1.

I was wondering if you have seen the 'Necronomicon' research done by Daniel Harms and John Wisdom.

Here is a link to the site:www.necfiles.org...

I have been fascinated by the possibility of the Necronomicon from an early age like many here.

The story of its development in popular culture is really fascinating and involves characters like Peter Levenda.

If you have not been over the Harms site you are in for some fun.

A Bedouin in a psychic realm.

No possessions but those you carry.

Terrible in its beauty.

Felonius

reply to post by Upthepunx


Thanks, Upthepunx. We will all be there in spirit with you when you hail Mighty Dagon on the 21st.

Here is an Icon for the Worshipful...

reply to post by Frater210


almost an accurate picture. though i have never seen his eyes for he is still sleeping. his voice in your head is like a chuch been in ryleh. mabey ill start to get my scales this solsitce

Been checking out that Video from the OP.

Can also be found as a free torrent:

See here

Some crazy stuff to get your mind round

reply to post by poet1b

Thanks for the interesting links. The Old Ones and Transhumanism all rolled into one- who'd have thought? Very entertaining, not to mention kind of scary as one day our brains really could be implanted with such neurotransmitters. Remember- alot of what was written as fiction has in the modern age become legitimate science!

Well, ATS, that was a lot of fun. I really can't express how much I really mean that. How much fun was that to see so much support for H.P.L.?

I did receive an email from Doctor Richard Elwes, the author of the paper, Exotic Spheres, or why 4-dimensional space is a crazy place. It is Dr. Elwes' publication which allowed for the concept of this thread. By his permission I will post the email here so everyone can read it but first I would like to quote from his website and his CV...

Visiting Fellowship at the University of Leeds. Recently I’ve primarily been working as a mathematical writer, and occasionally speaker, largely aiming at the general public rather than specialists. In what time I have left, I do some research in Model Theory, an area which bridges mathematical logic and algebra.

Dr. Elwes is also the author of the books, Maths 1001 and How to Build a Brain: Mathematics without the boring bits.

richardelwes.co.uk...

And here is the email...

Hi, Frater210

Thanks for getting in touch. Thanks too for mentioning my article in your post, which I enjoyed, as well as all the wonderfully weird pictures and videos on the thread.

I should give credit where it's due: the idea of writing about the mathematical aspects of HPL's work was Tom Hull's first. But when I wanted to write about exotic spheres and so on, it just seemed a perfect fit. Where else would The Old Ones live but in some insane high-dimensional manifold, so demented and deformed that it no longer even faintly resembles familiar Euclidean space?

I wouldn't go so far as to call Lovecraft a mathematician, but he certainly had some interest and knowledge of the subject. It's also worth saying that he was writing at a time when some way-out-there ideas from pure mathematics (e.g hyperbolic geometry) were unexpectedly beginning to find applications in physics (e.g in Relativity theory). This took a lot of people by surprise, raised the profile of a few previously obscure bits of geometry, and I suppose it also sent HPL's imagination into overdrive - not that he needed much prompting of course.

I genuinely think that fiction-writers like HPL and mathematicians have a lot in common. Both want to investigate worlds which have some of the same basic constituents as the universe we know, but in other ways are very strange places indeed. The challenge to both is: how weird can these alien realms possibly be? In each case, a lot of imagination and hard work is needed to answer the question! The main point of my article was that in the case of 4-d space, we still don't know the answer. But it is certainly a deeply strange place, to the eyes of us residents of 3-dimensions.

(I should add that the before & after pictures posted in the thread accurately reflect the effect of my encounter with Yog Sothoth. I also appreciate the comment: 'Eldritch Mathematician Richard Elwes', a title which I shall use with pride.)

All the best,
Richard

So thanks everyone for making this so much fun. Lets have a big round of tentacle slapping and flipper flapping for Eldritch Mathematician Dr. Richard Elwes.

Thanks ATS for a great Cthulhu Weekend.

reply to post by Frater210


Some of the art in this thread is nothing short of an

EPIC WOW!!!!!!

Thanks, so much, Frater210 and felonius for checking out my music!

Here's a little more information we found out about 169 Clinton St. and why its unusual characteristics may have informed HPL's spiritual collapse.

Lovecraft Country

For one thing, he described it in his letters to his wife as being unwholesome and furtive. He was having a lot of problems at the time with getting work (and not trying that hard) and the diverse neighborhood was really getting him down as a New England gentleman. (He was quite the racist).

When we were living there it was a combined apartment, 2 apartments into one. Two bathrooms, etc. One of the worst things that happened to him when he was living there was that he was robbed. Somebody broke into his apartment and stole his warm clothes, what little money he had and food. At the time, he was basically living off of canned beans (he would later die from this diet it is now assumed). Again, the Joshi Bio is the definitive source for info re HPL.

What we learned from living there was that the foundation was for a building much older than the 1850 or so building there now. It had a foundation from around the early 1800's and at one point had one of Brooklyn's first synagogues. The synagogue would later burn down.

FWIW, the building recently sold for 3.2 million bucks. Corcoran Real Estate Listing

So much to say here!

This post really perked me up and makes me wish I had paid more attention to math. I am convinced all of reality can be defined via mathematics which is the only way for the human brain to comprehend much of what is "real" as any time we directly perceive certain things we tend to lose it a little mainly because our sensory organs don't extend beyond the 3... unless our brain is a sensory organ that we haven't really figured out how to use yet.

Maybe Lovecraft along with several others have learned to use that sensory organ and their stories are retelling of what they saw rather than completely fabricated? This is what I think.

By the way we now officially know you're a geek because you knew to call them D20s rather than 20 sided dice. Paper and Dice Gamers are even lower than Chess nerds in societies pecking order! ha haa

By the way we now officially know you're a geek because you knew to call them D20s rather than 20 sided dice. Paper and Dice Gamers are even lower than Chess nerds in societies pecking order! ha haa

Yeah, you got me. I guess this was sort of a coming out party.

Please never give up hope on your math. I had given up until I realized that there was no way I would be able to do what I want to do without math. Even after 3 months of computer assisted learning I still could not 'perform' math.

And believe me; Math is performance art.

So I had to go all the way back but I did not quit and now I can do algebra. One other male in my family can do Algebra. And I am on my way now to bigger and bigger stuff.

You can do it, JL. Don't ever let anyone tell you you cannot.

The way math is taught here (the U.S.) is Beyond Deplorable. It should never be as hard and socially humiliating as it is, but chalk it up to little math robots created via social reproduction.

Here are the 2 best maths links that I have found in my arduous journey. They are indispensable must haves for anyone daring to climb Math Mountain...

Larry Is A God:
www.mathwithlarry.com...

Khan Academy Will Save Your Ass:
www.khanacademy.org...

And I am looking forward to putting the tools I know I will find in Dr. Elwes' books to use once I lay hands on them.

So , Jl, and anyone else who has been stricken down from Math Mountain; don't quit. Pick yourself up and try again.

Old Zen saying: Fall down 7 times get up 8.

reply to post by Frater210


I should clarify by more attention to Math I mean advanced calculus, physics, and the sort. I use algebra and statistics and basic financial math daily in my job, part of being a real analyst means you need to be wired for that kind of logic. Granted I don't know the names to all the theorems and processes but I know what many of them do and what they are getting at.

This to me is the main failure our education system has with math. Math isn't a "memorize this theorem and apply where told" science, but this is how it is taught. A proper mathematical education should consist of building blocks of the basics and logic tests to see how to solve problems mathematically.

What, Where, When, Why, How. Notice how is last? This is all most High School and lower level college math shows anyone is how. This also teaches you nothing except how to pass an exam. If I was designing the curriculum I would focus all education into focusing on what, where, when . Then once curiosity is piqued and interest generated it is time to learn why. Now people are ready to learn how.

This is how I've always structured on the job training and it works very well. It is not my experience with education at the high school or college level.

reply to post by Jinglelord


Hey, Jl. That is really impressive that you deal with those types of maths daily. That must keep your mind razor sharp. I bet you could do any math you wanted to. I am having a terrible time punctuated with a few really stellar moments. I guess that means I am kinda bipolar with math right now but I'm going to keep going. I simultaneously love and hate the stuff.
Had a final today. Not sure how I did because a lot of my math right now is seat of my pants. I am apparently not one of the folks to whom math comes naturally.

What would you say gives you the ability to do what you can do with numbers?

I am looking for help from anywhere I can get it from. Would you mind?

My only plan right now is to continue with the Intermediate Algebra book now, 3-4 months before the next semester, and keep up online with Khan and Larry and I have a little supplemental reading. I want to get the Elwes book because I am wondering if a British perspective on this might help me.

I am trying to find some balance between a miracle cure and treating myself like grade school child from Hong Kong. Any advice.

reply to post by Frater210


I've seen your ability to think and use logic. Your grasp of esoteric information and ability to link ideas is with the best. You, along with many others who think they don't have the ability to do math as well as anyone.

There is one secret I know of: Get out of your own way. You have convinced yourself it is difficult and your subconscious will accommodate this for you in an effort to prove you were correct. Your brain likes to be correct and will go really far out of its way to prove preconceived notions. Seriously try meditating and clearing your mind before you learn. The entire difficulty is to get out of your own way. And you are obstinate so this may take a bit of work but I'm sure it is something you can accomplish.

I have somewhere a pamphlet from my great great uncle (my grandfathers uncle by marriage not blood) where he goes through and disproves the Euclidean notion that a an angle can't be trisected with a compass and straight edge. He was one of those guys that corresponded regularly with the smart folks of his time and many of them, including Einstein supposedly said it worked, nobody could punch a hole in it. I looked at it and it seemed to work but them I'm not really at that caliber and wouldn't be able to poke a hole in it. His goal was to disprove the commonly held notions it is impossible to double a cube, square a circle, and trisect an angle with only a compass and straight edge. He died before he got to the other two and couldn't get his one accepted even though it was agreed to be correct by some of the top thinkers of his time. (As the family lore goes at least)

The point being that this sort of thing is just a matter of setting your mind to it and ignoring the conventional wisdom that anything is impossible or for that matter even difficult.

Horror upon squamous horror, and at last: Understanding.

From "Through the Gates of the Silver Key"

“And while there are those,” the mad Arab had written, “who have dared to seek glimpses beyond the Veil, and to accept HIM as a Guide, they would have been more prudent had they avoided commerce with HIM; for it is written in the Book of Thoth how terrific is the price of a single glimpse. Nor may those who pass ever return, for in the Vastnesses transcending our world are Shapes of darkness that seize and bind. The Affair that shambleth about in the night, the Evil that defieth the Elder Sign, the Herd that stand watch at the secret portal each tomb is known to have, and that thrive on that which groweth out of the tenants within—all these Blacknesses are lesser than HE Who guardeth the Gateway; HE Who will guide the rash one beyond all the worlds into the Abyss of unnamable Devourers. For HE is’UMR AT-TAWIL, the Most Ancient One, which the scribe rendereth as THE PROLONGED OF LIFE.”

Terrifying, yes? But consider the source. They don't call him the "mad Arab" for nothing (and let's not neglect the mathematical associations to be drawn from his Arabic origin). Later on:

“The man of Truth is beyond good and evil,” intoned a voice that was not a voice. “The man of Truth has ridden to All-Is-One. The man of Truth has learnt that Illusion is the only reality, and that substance is an impostor.”

That's some mighty gnostic stuffs, there.

Furthermore:

There were “Carters” in settings belonging to every known and suspected age of earth’s history, and to remoter ages of earthly entity transcending knowledge, suspicion, and credibility. “Carters” of forms both human and non-human, vertebrate and invertebrate, conscious and mindless, animal and vegetable. And more, there were “Carters” having nothing in common with earthly life, but moving outrageously amidst backgrounds of other planets and systems and galaxies and cosmic continua. Spores of eternal life drifting from world to world, universe to universe, yet all equally himself. Some of the glimpses recalled dreams—both faint and vivid, single and persistent—which he had had through the long years since he first began to dream, and a few possessed a haunting, fascinating, and almost horrible familiarity which no earthly logic could explain.

Yog-Sothoth is a bubbly, extra-dimensional you. Thoth in the name, connect the dots. Whoa!

Did HPL just blow your tiny mind?!

reply to post by mistermonculous


Howard will always blow my mind. im showing this article to a friend who is better with math than me. the half breeds have a tendency to be more intune with blood majick more so than word majick