It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

God 3%. Satan 97%. Does God needs a new marketing man?

page: 1
6
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 08:35 PM
link   
God 3%. Satan 97%. Does God needs a new marketing man?

Many Christians take the view that the Bible says only a few will be saved. There are verses which show just that. You know, the narrow road and the wide road. It also shows that God would have known ahead of time that his program of salvation would be a marketing disaster. Scripture says he is all knowing. Yet he carried on with his present plan rather than choose a different program which could have been a marketing coup and show him as a successful planer instead of a dismal marketing flop.

Why would God not put forward a successful marketing plan?

www.youtube.com...

It should have been quite easy for him. He had all the answers to any survey question he could have asked in order to gage the best approach to winning the hearts and minds of the population. Omnipotence includes infinite powers of persuasion and any sales or marketing man will know that with that at hand, anyone could deal with any objections to the sale, which is usually the only hindrance to the sale. In this case, selling us on the notion that he is God and should be followed.

Give those same tools to any fool and he would become the new Man/God of the whole world hands down. I am not saying that God is a fool but any marketing firm would fire his ass.

I find it quite strange that at the end of days, Satan will be sitting there in hell gloating over the fact that God has only a small % of all the souls he has created even as scripture says he created all of those souls perfect.
Perfect souls would of course make the perfect choice.
Perfect souls choosing who we are told is the bad guy? What the hell.

Poor God could not get out of heaven in the beginning without losing Satan and 1/3 of God’s angels. He could not get out of Eden without losing Adam and Eve. He could not impress all those of Noah’s day. Not even the dumb animals and even today, he is losing most of us to secular law instead of Biblical law.

Adam and Eve should have been a trophy for God as they did exactly what scripture says we should all do. Learn of good and evil and emulate him and be as bright as Gods. Yet when Adam and Eve became as Gods, God showed great displeasure and cursed everybody up and down including the earth. This I find really strange but then, God works in mysterious ways.
Perhaps that includes being a loser to Satan.
Can’t fight the Bible facts folks.

What do you think?

Does God need a new marketing man to reverse his dismal showing?

Regards
DL




posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 08:56 PM
link   
How do you know what God's ultimate plans are? Do you claim to know what he is thinking? From the sounds of your post you don't believe the Bible anyway so why question something you don't believe in?
No human "wisdom" can even begin to understand the complexities of God... he may surprise you.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 09:08 PM
link   
This question was raised in the last week or so but I don't remember which thread, and it seems to keep percolating endlessly wherever anti-Christians roam. So I'll just post these links to two pertinent articles of mine for whoever is interested, and will try and discuss this with anyone willing to consider it honestly and without rancor.

Cosmic Q and A

Holding Satan's Leash

A few brief responses to the OP:

1. If it were strictly God picking people to save, as some say, or God being merely a hopeful salesman, one might rightly condemn him. But he isnt. As I explain in the linked articles, there is much more going on here than meets the eye; to demand that God spill his guts on every detail we demand is arrogant at best. We were told what we need to know, and trust is certainly an important factor.

2. Since conjecture abounds in the OP, I'll add my own scenario. Let us suppose that God's omniscience is what is called "middle knowledge", where God knows all possible worlds that may achieve some goal. He chooses the best one, and like an expert chess player, has unequaled foresight into all remaining possible moves though the set of such moves changes with each move. Let us also suppose that, just like in chess, even God has agreed to certain rules of the game and will not violate them and win by cheating or pulling rank. This limits his options to intervene in human affairs, which have been in Satan's domain since the Fall.

3. In such a world where Satan rules, one would hardly expect anything good to happen, such that the real question is why it ever does, rather than why God allows bad things to happen. So rather than God being helpless, sadistic and cold, or indifferent, it is a case of God abiding by agreed upon rules for a limited time until the game is won, and no amount of Satan's cheating or viciousness will make God break his own rules and promises.

4. When it's "game over", Satan gets what's coming to him for all the suffering he caused, and those who chose to trust God in spite of everything will get the justice and rewards that are coming to them. Finally there will be justice; finally everyone is paid back, depending on how they lived.

5. While degree of reward or punishment is an earned wage, salvation itself is pass/fail based upon faith in Jesus. It is a gift he bought for us and thus cannot be earned in any way. And like any gift, it cannot be such if it is forced on the receiving party; it must be accepted willingly. That's why each person must decide for themselves whether to accept this gift, and on that basis alone will they enter heaven or hell.

6. Not everything we know from this life can be ported to the spiritual realm, meaning we cannot presume that we are exactly like children to God in that we have no grasp of good and evil. We also must note that nowhere in scripture does it say Satan will rule hell for eternity, but that he will be tormented forever in the Lake of Fire. And I'm pretty sure he won't be laughing.

7. The Fall of Man is way oversimplified here and pretty much everywhere, but I'll save that for another comment if anyone cares to hear it.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 09:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by Soldier of God
How do you know what God's ultimate plans are? Do you claim to know what he is thinking? From the sounds of your post you don't believe the Bible anyway so why question something you don't believe in?
No human "wisdom" can even begin to understand the complexities of God... he may surprise you.


If we dont question what we dont belive in, how can the heathens ever be converted for the glory of god ?
Isnt the ability to question and reason what makes us human ?
And once we start to question then the blinders come off and we can see that there is more then two roads.
there is the narrow path to the Abrahamic religions heaven and a wider road to the hell of "satan"
but if you turn around and look from the mountain you can see so much more..
But the op has an interesting point, al be it a bit strange how he presented it , but still relevant.
if we are all made in gods image, why wouldnt he give us eternity to reach him ?
I've just started looking at the gateless gate korans, (Zen)
en.wikipedia.org...
and i dont think this gate is on the road to the heaven of jesuss father.. but i might be wrong.

edit on 6-6-2011 by sprocket2cog because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 09:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by Soldier of God
How do you know what God's ultimate plans are? Do you claim to know what he is thinking? From the sounds of your post you don't believe the Bible anyway so why question something you don't believe in?
No human "wisdom" can even begin to understand the complexities of God... he may surprise you.


Very true I must say........ so why do we box god into mans wisdom book known as the Bible? (not saying you do)



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 09:16 PM
link   
reply to post by sprocket2cog
 


The OP is not sincerely questioning this. He's making a comic attempt to say God is stupid and Satan is the winner.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 09:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by Soldier of God
reply to post by sprocket2cog
 


The OP is not sincerely questioning this. He's making a comic attempt to say God is stupid and Satan is the winner.


Do you care to counter the arguement, or are you focusing strictly on discrediting the ops intentions?

That sort of shows you have no counter for the arguement when you resort to attacking the messenger.

guess the ops then must be right?

Add:
To me, the ops is showing that, due to such a narrow margain of people going to heaven verses hell, God must therefore be:

1) mean
2) idiotic
3) non-existant (at least the biblical version)

can you see alternatives or offer a different suggestion in regards to the threads point?
edit on 6-6-2011 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 09:22 PM
link   
reply to post by SaberTruth
 

Salvation is only a pass or fail if you belive in jesus only if your destination is the heaven of his father.
Salvation in its self can lead to the Source of eternal life outside of the Christian constructs fo faith in jesus and the biblical heaven
en.wikipedia.org...

Some religions claim that salvation can be attained by using only inner human resources such as meditation, accumulation of wisdom, asceticism, rituals, or good deeds. Other religions teach that humans can be saved only through the grace granted by an external personal agent (Gods, bodhisattvas, Avatars, etc.)

So there to is many roads to salvation, the choice is which one you want to follow and what you seek at the end..
islam for example

"Salvation" in Islam refers to the eventual entrance to heaven. The word does not cover the possible entry to hellfire, or the different levels of hellfire and heaven. The Quran teaches that the only thing guaranteeing no salvation is a disbelief in the “One God”; associating others with God,

Hinduism and Buddhism have a diffrent view

Eventually, however, one is able to escape from saṃsāra, the cycle of death and rebirth, through the attainment of the highest spiritual state. This state is called moksha (or mukti) in Hinduism, Sac Khand in Sikhism, moksa or nirvana in Jainism and often called nirvāṇa in Buddhism. This state is not one of individual happiness but often a merging of oneself with collective existence



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 09:25 PM
link   
God doesn't need any kind of marketing in my honest opinion. God just is and no proof must be to a true believer of this divine presence around us, within us, part of us. As time goes by and your spiritual sense starts to arise, you realize than inside you there is a part of god essence, in every human here on earth also. With that being said, marketing the ideas of our creator, the one which we owe him every single moment of our existence is far from the real purity that our devotion must be.

The fact that maybe 3% of everybody will be saved depends only and totally on an individual devotion and belief in the Lord. Being faithful to ourselves, what we believe and our understanding of what reality truly is, personally talking as a discovery on my spiritual path, the real thing to focus on for the time to come.

We must unite, believe, and most of all, base our lifes on 3 single concepts. Those concept are the following : 1- Love, in everything; nature, family, friendships, our enemys (most of all), etc, 2- Respect, because without it there can't be any real healthy relationship, and the last but not least, 3- Forgiveness, considering vengeance as a mere detour to our goal and a negative (black) tought which may more destroy than help us along the way.

These are my personal tought on the subject. I felt I had to say this as I found recently my mission here on earth which consist of helping other humans.

The best thing you could do is to not believe a single word of what I say and try it to transmute this knowledge (if you wish, no attempt of proving anything out there) into experience which may never be lost during this physical life.




Much love to all,


Truthseek3r



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 09:28 PM
link   
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I clearly stated my point and I'll ask you... Do you claim to know the mind of God?
If your answer is no then you don't know what His plans are and can only make assumptions.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 09:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by sprocket2cog
reply to post by SaberTruth
 

Salvation is only a pass or fail if you belive in jesus only if your destination is the heaven of his father.

Of course; I am responding from a Christian perspective since the OP is judging the Christian God.


Salvation in its self can lead to the Source of eternal life outside of the Christian constructs fo faith in jesus and the biblical heaven...

The Bible does not support this claim, so directing it at a Christian is kind of pointless. Did you mean to direct it to the OP?



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 09:45 PM
link   
No , was just pointing out that salvation has many paths, and not every path that dosnt include jesus leads to hell.
But sorry if i offended you by directing it at you. i by no means judge you by your faith.
Just debating ideas, its what makes it fun

so was just showing you a diffrent view in case you hadnt seen it before.
you understand my intent wasnt to misguide you,



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 09:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by Soldier of God
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I clearly stated my point and I'll ask you... Do you claim to know the mind of God?
If your answer is no then you don't know what His plans are and can only make assumptions.


Yes
I know the mind of God

As (theologically speaking), I am a part of God, therefore I am God (perspective of), and I know my mind.



Therefore, I know the concept of God is false (at least biblically speaking), because I personally see it as false...and if God acknowledges something as false, then it must be. None can deny the truth...and since I can deny religion, then religion must not be true

So there you have it. there is no truth, everything is permitted



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 09:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by sprocket2cog
No , was just pointing out that salvation has many paths, and not every path that dosnt include jesus leads to hell.
But sorry if i offended you by directing it at you. i by no means judge you by your faith.
Just debating ideas, its what makes it fun

so was just showing you a diffrent view in case you hadnt seen it before.
you understand my intent wasnt to misguide you,

No offense taken. But rest assured I've been around the block a few times and rarely get surprised by new ideas these days.

I'm also trying my best to stay focused on what the OP asked and directed the claims toward. ATS frowns on rabbit trails and Christians have to be extra careful (just my observation).



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 10:19 PM
link   
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


LOL! People wonder why God won't save everyone, and my question is:

How can God save ANYONE? Hell I deserve, heaven sounds scandalous! We've all failed to be perfect and God is a perfect being. If He doesn't want His enemies living around Him for eternity, fair enough I don't have my worst enemies living with me either.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 10:20 PM
link   
kinda like ...Santa 97%..

Easter bunny..3%..

none of them are real...

so who cares?

right?



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 10:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by Soldier of God
reply to post by sprocket2cog
 


The OP is not sincerely questioning this. He's making a comic attempt to say God is stupid and Satan is the winner.


Go to his/her profile.

All his/her threads are the same theme.

God bad/Christians stupid.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 10:37 PM
link   


Why would God not put forward a successful marketing plan?


Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, and my ways are not your ways.



It should have been quite easy for him. He had all the answers to any survey question he could have asked in order to gage the best approach to winning the hearts and minds of the population. Omnipotence includes infinite powers of persuasion and any sales or marketing man will know that with that at hand, anyone could deal with any objections to the sale, which is usually the only hindrance to the sale. In this case, selling us on the notion that he is God and should be followed.


John 15:16 You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you...



I find it quite strange that at the end of days, Satan will be sitting there in hell gloating over the fact that God has only a small % of all the souls he has created even as scripture says he created all of those souls perfect.


Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire...



Poor God could not get out of heaven in the beginning without losing Satan and 1/3 of God’s angels. He could not get out of Eden without losing Adam and Eve. He could not impress all those of Noah’s day. Not even the dumb animals and even today, he is losing most of us to secular law instead of Biblical law.


Isaiah 66:1 ...The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool...
Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:...



Adam and Eve should have been a trophy for God as they did exactly what scripture says we should all do. Learn of good and evil and emulate him and be as bright as Gods. Yet when Adam and Eve became as Gods, God showed great displeasure and cursed everybody up and down including the earth. This I find really strange but then, God works in mysterious ways. Perhaps that includes being a loser to Satan.


1 Corinthians 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.



Does God need a new marketing man to reverse his dismal showing?


John 15:16 You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you...
Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.

ETA: If you're going to take on the bible, you should at least read it.


edit on 6/6/2011 by Klassified because: ETA

edit on 6/6/2011 by Klassified because: (no reason given)


edit on 6/6/2011 by Klassified because: ETA:



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 07:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by Soldier of God
How do you know what God's ultimate plans are? Do you claim to know what he is thinking? From the sounds of your post you don't believe the Bible anyway so why question something you don't believe in?
No human "wisdom" can even begin to understand the complexities of God... he may surprise you.


Sure, Eric Cartman. "respect my authorit-a-i", even if all of it probably is made up, is presented as an ideology to keep slaves in submission and use violence, when brainwashing doesn't suffice.

Indeed, why should we question this?

Quote: ["No human "wisdom" can even begin to understand the complexities of God... he may surprise you."]

Nobody understands the flying spaghetti monster either. But we never use that as a missionary argument.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 08:17 AM
link   
reply to post by SaberTruth
 


You wrote:

1. ["We were told what we need to know, and trust is certainly an important factor."]

Emphasizing the authoritarian nature of the christianity-version you advocate.

2. Quote: ["Let us suppose that God's omniscience is what is called "middle knowledge", where God knows all possible worlds that may achieve some goal."]

This assumes 'free will' and see what happens, when mankind actually uses free will.

3. Quote: ["In such a world where Satan rules, one would hardly expect anything good to happen,"]

On the circle-assumption that 'god's rules are good' because 'god' made them, you get to the answer you want. But as Jahveh actually is an ambitious demon, this argument fails.

4. Quote: ["When it's "game over", Satan gets what's coming to him for all the suffering he caused,"]

Propaganda noted. If there's any reality at all to your imaginationed situation, the outcome is still to be seen.

5. Quote: ["While degree of reward or punishment is an earned wage, salvation itself is pass/fail based upon faith in Jesus."]

Absolving mankind for the mistakes made by the demon wanna-be 'god' Jahveh'? Hardly.

6. Quote: ["Not everything we know from this life can be ported to the spiritual realm,"]

If you really wanted, instead of preaching, you could at least try to establish such connections. But please: Not more of your quantum religion. It's bosh.

7. Quote: ["The Fall of Man is way oversimplified here and pretty much everywhere, but I'll save that for another comment if anyone cares to hear it."]

I cartainly would like to hear it, as I to this day only have had two answers presented: The schizoid paranoia/megalomaniac Jahveh is, in spite of all evidence, a brilliant parent. Why? Endless embellishing sugarcoating until everybody gives up from terminal boredom.

Or. 'God' is good, because he's 'god', so he must be good.



edit on 7-6-2011 by bogomil because: typo, syntax



new topics

top topics



 
6
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join