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The issue of the omniscient God

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posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by TheOneElectric

A little more to the point.

"Remember...it's omniscience we are discussing, and nothing short of it. If it exists, and God is all powerful, then God has it." Let's say that "God" has it.

"If God has it, then our individual free will is automatically in question."
We are talking about omniscience, not enforcing someone to make a choice. The will is still there, however it is our doing. It's much like watching a child, you know 100% given a certain situation that child will act in a certain manner. After the fact can it be said we willed that child to perform it? I would debate that.




posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by TheOneElectric
As many of ponder upon the great depth of the Universe, the Multiverse, and Reality, we find ourselves perplexed with the question of existence. What brought forth creation? Was it pure will, a random expansion of energy, a random birth of a powerful being? We sit, contemplate, and answers to these questions come not in this stage of existence. So we live, and we make assumptions as to the origins of things.

Taking for granted that there is a source, a creator, a God of sorts, or a presence an issue arises. If we are to skip the argument of infinite regression and assume that there is a source in which all originates, we have a conundrum on our hands. In many spiritual teachings, choice plays a major part in development. However, never enough do we question the validity of free will. What factors allow us to choose? Is it an evolutionary development that assists our brains in higher levels of cognition? Is it a benevolent gift from the source? What is choice? Well, to be honest, I'm not here to answer what choice is exactly, I'm just here to state a fact of the third dimensional plane of thought.

Under our rules and understanding, if a Omniscient, Omnipotent god being existed then the idea of free will and choice are more or less fictional ideas; at least in our level of understanding. It takes merely simple logic to question the validity of free will under Omniscience. If such an all knowing being existed, outside of space and time, all of our actions would be known to it. All of choices, before we were even here to make them, are known by our assumed God. This being knows all, it knows when all will be born and when all will die. It knows what a person will choose to have for breakfast and it knows what a person will have for dinner. It knows what route one will take to work, and what route one will take to return home. It knows all. It knows what exact words, down to the awkward verbal punctuation, one will say to their co-workers on that given day. All of our choices were known, thought of, and contemplated long before we existed under this assumed God.

How is free will or choice to be considered valid under an Omniscient God? How can our decisions make a difference to our well being if they were already crafted, like a computer program in play. Are our individual experiences and choices meaningless on a personal level? Are our choices the choices of God, therefore giving more credence to the idea of all of reality just being God experiencing?

Remember...it's omniscience we are discussing, and nothing short of it. If it exists, and God is all powerful, then God has it. If God has it, then our individual free will is automatically in question.

What exactly is going on here? What are our choices if we are to believe in an omniscient source?


Perhaps Time is like a tree... each time there is an opportunity for a choice, the tree branches out in multiple directions... God can see the whole tree at once, past future and present, as well as where each branch leads. Yet we choose which path is actually taken. I think it is also a matter of point of view. From God's point of view, outside of time, our futures seem predetermined, as he can see which path we choose. Yet the seemlingly predeterminedness is directly a result of our own choices... from our point of view, within time, our choices lead one after another into our unknown future, whereas God sees where our choices lead us already. But that doesn't mean that they are his choices... the future is still a result of our choices in the present.... if we could be zoomed out to God's view, perhaps we would see the most likely choices we would make, yet when put back into the present, we have the opportunity to change these choices and shape our future, sort of like in A Christmas Carol. Maybe I am making this too complicated... I'm just trying to say that just because God can see our future does not mean that he determined it..."God doesn't control your thoughts. You have the full choice to do exactly what you want with no interference from him in the decision-making process. He just already knows what you're gonna do before you do it. It doesn't change the fact that you're the one who did it".... so it still is your choice, God just knows what you will choose is all... that doesn't mean it isn't a choice. If you had a decision to make, whether to eat a cookie or not, you, ultimately, have the choice of eating the cookie or not, yet God knows already that you will eat the cookie.

I believe that someone asked the question of why would God create a world in which he could see the future and he knew something would go wrong (the Fall, Adam and Eve, etc.)? Perhaps its simply because he yearned to create other beings with free will, and the creation of such beings would inevitably lead to some sort of Fall due to the nature of free will. However, God created us nonetheless out of his love for us and yearning for someone to be with, greatly hoping that we would choose the path that led to him. Yet we could choose otherwise because we have free will.
Now, in a world where we have free will, it may be inevitable to God that some souls would be destined to Hell because of their choices. However, just because God knows this, does not mean that it is his choice and that he is purposely and mercilessly condemning people to Hell. People born into bad situations who never except God (and God may know this may happen) are simply victims of manmade choices going against God that are direct results from man's free will. God will help anyone if they ask, yet he must know, being omniscient, that some people may never ask... and so why would he let those souls into the world? Well, its not that he purposely did that... they are just victims to the manmade decisions/free will.

Either that or God doesn't know the exact future, but has a good idea of it and a plan that we can change with our own decisions... like he wants us to follow the plan but he can't entirely force us to





edit on 24-6-2011 by oaktree137 because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-6-2011 by oaktree137 because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-6-2011 by oaktree137 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by TheOneElectric
As many of ponder upon the great depth of the Universe, the Multiverse, and Reality, we find ourselves perplexed with the question of existence. What brought forth creation? Was it pure will, a random expansion of energy, a random birth of a powerful being? We sit, contemplate, and answers to these questions come not in this stage of existence. So we live, and we make assumptions as to the origins of things.

Taking for granted that there is a source, a creator, a God of sorts, or a presence an issue arises. If we are to skip the argument of infinite regression and assume that there is a source in which all originates, we have a conundrum on our hands. In many spiritual teachings, choice plays a major part in development. However, never enough do we question the validity of free will. What factors allow us to choose? Is it an evolutionary development that assists our brains in higher levels of cognition? Is it a benevolent gift from the source? What is choice? Well, to be honest, I'm not here to answer what choice is exactly, I'm just here to state a fact of the third dimensional plane of thought.

Under our rules and understanding, if a Omniscient, Omnipotent god being existed then the idea of free will and choice are more or less fictional ideas; at least in our level of understanding. It takes merely simple logic to question the validity of free will under Omniscience. If such an all knowing being existed, outside of space and time, all of our actions would be known to it. All of choices, before we were even here to make them, are known by our assumed God. This being knows all, it knows when all will be born and when all will die. It knows what a person will choose to have for breakfast and it knows what a person will have for dinner. It knows what route one will take to work, and what route one will take to return home. It knows all. It knows what exact words, down to the awkward verbal punctuation, one will say to their co-workers on that given day. All of our choices were known, thought of, and contemplated long before we existed under this assumed God.

How is free will or choice to be considered valid under an Omniscient God? How can our decisions make a difference to our well being if they were already crafted, like a computer program in play. Are our individual experiences and choices meaningless on a personal level? Are our choices the choices of God, therefore giving more credence to the idea of all of reality just being God experiencing?

Remember...it's omniscience we are discussing, and nothing short of it. If it exists, and God is all powerful, then God has it. If God has it, then our individual free will is automatically in question.

What exactly is going on here? What are our choices if we are to believe in an omniscient source?


My answer to this lies within my own perception of the definition of 'Omniscience'.

Omniscience: The ability to see not only all possible 'end-actualities', based upon the determining freewill of any sentient being, but also all possible potentialities.

In other words, this ability would allow 'GOD' to see every possible path through life that any given sentient being is able to choose from, allowing said being to develop it's own linear timeline. This denotes that freewill is the ability to develop a linear timeline out of a Temporal-Directional Potentiality Matrix.
Now, since I (a sentient being) do have freewill and thought, I have the ability to choose from said paths once I have acquired the knowledge that allows me to recognize the fact that I have choices. Although, my decisions are limited by my own perceptions of what all choices I have, this does not preclude the existence of all possible choices. This denotes my emerging ability in developing my linear timeline out the potentialities., and the only limitations upon my utilizing any given potentiality stem solely from my lack of perception of all possible choices.
From that moment forward, every decision is left up to me. As a result, as I continue along in life, developing my linear timeline (my path in life, as I continually chose it), the size of the Temporal-Directional Potentiality Matrix decreases with every choice. Thereby, reducing the number of potentialities in which to choose from that remain for me to utilize in developing my linear timeline. This denotes that Omniscience is the ability to reasonably, and accurately deduce all potential 'end-actualities' that ensue of any given developing linear timeline based upon the remaining potentialities. The true 'end-actuality' is wholly decided by the sentient being. The ability of 'the Heavenly Father' to accurately deduce all possible 'end-actualities' does not inhibit any given sentient being's freewill. Omniscience merely allows 'Him' the ability to be 'All-Seeing/ All-Knowing' within the respect.of knowing all potentialities (and all possible 'end-actualities') from the beginning point of a sentient beings existence, all the way until the true 'end-actuality' of that existence is determined by said sentient being's choices.



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