Eugenics and deliberate economic persecution of vulnerable people in United Kingdom.

Campaigners warn over incapacity benefit changes (BBC report)

The above BBC news article refers to many cases of suicide among VULNERABLE people with mental health issues. I am not going to comment on anything else other than the FACT that this is allowing a cloak and dagger form of eugenics to take place.

The hounding of people with mental health issues by the Brtish Authorities is leading to suicides of vulnerable people (WITHOUT DOUBT).

This is CLEARLY demonstrating that the British Authorities see it that it is more important to save a little cash by ridding itself one way or another of people with mental health issues from the authorities duty to abide with the European Union's Charter on Human Rights:

Expressing their concerns about the process, the group of organisations wrote: "We've found that the prospect of IB [incapacity benefit] reassessment is causing huge amounts of distress, and tragically there have already been cases where people have taken their own life following problems with changes to their benefits.

(from the news article).

It is very very obvious what is taking place here. The British Authorities are using legislation to persecute a socially dependent and vulnerable group. Their legislation is no different to what the S.S did in Deutschland during the Second World War. Well, as I have been labelled by them I now label them:

FASCIST BRUTAL BULLIES WITH NO SOCIAL CONSCIENCE ATALL.

Its bad isnt it.

By the way did you watch that program lastnight on the BBc about that guy who went undercover in a mental nursing home?

He filmed lots of abuse from most of the nurses who worked there and the nurses who didnt join in just watched and laughed while others abused the people they were ment to be looking after.

One guy who quit is job because of the abuse the nurses was dishing out to the patients reported it to the head of the private mental hospital but they didnt reply. So he went above them to the people who are suposed to regulate the carers and they ignored him too. It was quite sickening to be honest.

If I can find a link to the program il edit my post.

Edit.

Cant find the full doc. Maybe its on bbc iplayer. But here is a link to the story and a short vid on the bbc news site.

www.bbc.co.uk...

S+F btw, Im glad you brought attention to this subject.

Edit again. Full program here. Some people may find some of the scenes upsetting

www.bbc.co.uk...

I think you’re clouding a serious subject with needles hyperbole. We must ensure that those who need help get it but we do not have an unlimited budget, to assess those who claim any benefit is not eugenics it is prudent spending policy.

Perhaps these benefits should not be cut but there is evidence to suggest that it should be reassessed to determine whether that is true. It is a fact that claims for incapacity benefit have consistently increased over the past decade; between 2001 and 2007 for example the number of people claiming IB and had been off work for five or more years had increased by around 23%. That is a huge number and not readily explained any natural “inflation”.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Originally posted by Mike_A
I think you’re clouding a serious subject with needles hyperbole. We must ensure that those who need help get it but we do not have an unlimited budget, to assess those who claim any benefit is not eugenics it is prudent spending policy.

Perhaps these benefits should not be cut but there is evidence to suggest that it should be reassessed to determine whether that is true. It is a fact that claims for incapacity benefit have consistently increased over the past decade; between 2001 and 2007 for example the number of people claiming IB and had been off work for five or more years had increased by around 23%. That is a huge number and not readily explained any natural “inflation”.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

"needles hyperbole" - The "needless hyperbole" as you call it is my conclusion as to what is happening to people with mental health issues here in the UK.

"to assess those who claim any benefit is not eugenics it is prudent spending policy." Even if it is causing people with mental health issues to commit suicide? Is that "prudent spending policy"? Or perhaps it is a sacrifice worth making so more money is available to bomb Lybia???

" It is a fact that claims for incapacity benefit have consistently increased over the past decade; between 2001 and 2007 for example the number of people claiming IB and had been off work for five or more years had increased by around 23%" - Is that perhaps a symptom of a society that is driving people to the edge of their sanity because of the awful experiences they have to go through in Britain nowadays; bullying at work, all the family breakdown, all the injustice of a diseased state. Poor housing, all the crime and violence and lack of services.

My "needless" hyperbole" is the expression of my angry soul having to live like this. I do not believe it is needless because I KNOW that vulnerable people are being driven to suicide by government policy. Many campaigners are aware of this, too and after the BBC article so is the general British Public.

If I read somewhere or someone tells me that vulnerable people are being abused to the point of suicide and I am also in that category then my only option is to worry and stress about it. The result of this government's policy is that I am being forced to live in fear now that anytime soon they are going to drag me into a little room against my will and just about half my benefit, this on top of the acute anxiety my condition gives me.

What do you want. Do you want me to commit suicide? Do you want me to starve and live an existence full of horror and fear, just because I am not well enough to work in the stress of today's modern world?

I will fight to survive, using each and every means available. Using "needless hyperbole"(s) is me trying to express my deep anxiety and worry about the health and welfare policies of this government.

Thank you for your reply and spurring me on to clarify my concerns. Wish you well!

reply to post by ThePeopleParty


Yes, I saw all that you have included in your reply. I think that is why I am angry, too. I used to work with people with learning disabilities and to see this happening in 2011 is so depressing to my soul.

It is REALLY BAD!!!

I think as a society we have utterly lost our way. All the people that slamn Christianity and Jesus's teaching look and see what you are replacing it with...THISSS!!! Was it worth it? I don't think so.

Jesus came here as lowly as He could to tell us to care about and love eachother, that is all. Now this morality is dying and being isolated and forgotten. I tell you now as a very REAL PREDICTION, soon life will be so evil and nasty it wont be worth living. For a sensitive soul like me to live in a world where they blow Presidents heads off in daylight that even small children have had to witness. Aint a world worth living in anyway.

That is why I am not scared to speak out ever. I am not frightened of anything they can throw at me. I have been through enough horror already and I will not shut up until there is more justice for us all.

I make no bones about it. I want to live in an open, free, just, gentle, compassionate and caring society. I don't want to live like this in this greedy, selfish, uncaring, violent, immoral society that Britain has become.

"Love is the answer, Love is a flower, You got to let it grow" JOHN LENNON (who got murdered just for being John Lennon)

reply to post by Revolution9


Change can produce stress for everyday folks. More so for those who live with challenges in their life. Based on experience and observation, many people with mental health issues need a staunch advocate in their life that will help. Simple forms and paperwork may have a very different meaning to someone with health issues. For many daily life is a battle, and medications that are supposed to help have side effects that take a toll.

If you know someone who is in this predicament why not let your charitable side come out? See if they need help. Better sooner than later. Seriously, paperwork and documents are much more menacing for some than others. Still deadlines have to be met and there are less hassles if folks get their papers in on time.

Best of luck to all those affected.

reply to post by Revolution9


We have a ~£95bn structural deficit; the cost of Libya is in the “tens of millions”. Yes equating the assessment of benefits claimant as a deliberate attempt to shape the evolution of human beings by killing of the disabled is hyperbole.

The method of assessment should be and is open criticism and potential modification, if it is causing serious distress to the point of suicide then that must be looked at but I’m not arguing with you about that, I am with your characterisation of the process as a form of eugenics.

Is that perhaps a symptom of a society that is driving people to the edge of their sanity because of the awful experiences they have to go through in Britain nowadays; bullying at work, all the family breakdown, all the injustice of a diseased state. Poor housing, all the crime and violence and lack of services.

If those things had suddenly increased at a rate in line with the number of people claiming benefits then perhaps but as far as I know that is not the case, for example services have increased and crime has fallen.

What do you want. Do you want me to commit suicide? Do you want me to starve and live an existence full of horro and fear, just because I am not well enough to work in the stress of today's modern world?

Do you want to be deprived of benefits and services that you need because someone who doesn’t need them is nevertheless claiming them fraudulently? Do you not agree that if someone is capable of working it is better that they do so rather than take public money that they do not need? If so isn’t there are need for some form of assessment?

At the end of the day we do have a limited budget, there are people claiming benefits that they do not need, there has been an unusual increase in the number claiming benefits and we do have a serious deficit problem.

It might be difficult but we cannot ignore the problem. Denouncing any attempt to address the situation as eugenics is hyperbole and it is far from helpful to the point of being counter productive.

Originally posted by LargeFries
reply to post by Revolution9

 

Change can produce stress for everyday folks. More so for those who live with challenges in their life. Based on experience and observation, many people with mental health issues need a staunch advocate in their life that will help. Simple forms and paperwork may have a very different meaning to someone with health issues. For many daily life is a battle, and medications that are supposed to help have side effects that take a toll.

If you know someone who is in this predicament why not let your charitable side come out? See if they need help. Better sooner than later. Seriously, paperwork and documents are much more menacing for some than others. Still deadlines have to be met and there are less hassles if folks get their papers in on time.

Best of luck to all those affected.

Thank you for your sensitivity, care and great advice.

It is so sad that this minority group are the very ones that are often so isolated from family and services.

I do believe that the social atmosphere of such a narrow definition of what is normal and acceptible is having a great toll. Diversity is being lost and this is very worrying because it makes it possible for the "only one way" attitude to prevail and that to me might as well be a fascist society.

People are so indoctrinated with fear of anything different. Even mention the term mental illness and people run away and put up all manner of barriers and false assertions. These stem from a total misunderstanding and the kind of fear generated by media and society at large that people with mental health problems are dangerous.

A lady once wrote a beautiful piece about the control aspect of modern psychology, that it has risen as a science in much the same way as eugenics did, when in fact it is not even a science and is just a set of forced and indoctrinating values to create a social climate and a way of controlling that social climate. I may still have the article and if I do then I will post it here as it is so well written.

reply to post by Revolution9

when in fact it is not even a science and is just a set of forced and indoctrinating values to create a social climate and a way of controlling that social climate.

Sorry but that is utterly untrue, have you studied psychology to any degree, formally or informally? And I don’t just mean reading “about” psychology but actually reading the theories and methodologies themselves.

While it could be said that it’s not as clear cut as the physical sciences it is very much based on the scientific method. It certainly has had its unpleasant episodes but we have come a long way from baby Albert and the like.

To say it’s not a science is just a flat out lie; I really can’t let that pass!

reply to post by Mike_A


However, I do believe the symptom of this social policy is a kind of eugenics.

eu·gen·ics noun (plural) /yo͞oˈjeniks/  The science of improving a human population by controlled breeding to increase the occurrence of desirable heritable characteristics. Developed largely by Francis Galton as a method of improving the human race, it fell into disfavor only after the perversion of its doctrines by the Nazis Web definitions the study of methods of improving genetic qualities by selective breeding (especially as applied to human mating) wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn The science of improving stock, whether human or animal; A social philosophy which advocates the improvement of human hereditary qualities through selective breeding en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eugenics eugenic - pertaining to or causing improvement in the offspring produced wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn eugenic - of or relating to eugenics; relating or adapting to production of good offspring en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eugenic from Greek eugenes meaning wellborn; The eugenics movement of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries sought to "improve" the human species and preserve racial "purity" through planned human breeding. ... www.understandingrace.org/resources/glossary.html The belief that information about heredity can be used to improve the human race. www.ornl.gov/hgmis/publicat/genechoice/glossary.html The practice of trying to influence human heredity by encouraging the transmission of 'desirable' characteristics and discouraging the transmission of 'undesirable' ones. www.genetics.com.au/glossary/e.asp Programs by which humans are carefully selected for breeding in order to maximize certain qualities. The German Nazi government instituted a Mutterkreuz (mother's cross) program which encouraged women to have many "Aryan" children, for which they could receive crosses. www.translationdirectory.com/glossaries/glossary007_e.htm Derived from Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest. The Nazis used false scientific arguments to discourage procreation by members who they considered were 'unfit' to live in society, either physically, mentally or socially. www.bl.uk/learning/histcitizen/voices/ref/gloss/glossary.html The scientific practice of “improving” a population or species by selective breeding or genetic engineering, to breed out “bad” traits and breed in “good” ones. www.routledge.com/textbooks/9780415485395/glossary.asp literally meaning "well born." Eugenics is a genetic and social theory whereby the human race is improved by selective reproduction whereby desireable characteristics are propogated and undesireable traits are eliminated. www.uvm.edu/~cgep/Education/Glossary.html the early twentieth century policy which aimed to improve the quality of the population by preventing "unfit" people from reproducing and encouraging "fit" people to reproduce. ... www.antenataltesting.info/glossary.html Literally "well born." The attempt of artificial selection towards a particular set of desired characteristics. ... www.cap-lmu.de/fgz/portals/biotech/terminology.php The application of the principles of genetics to the "improvement" of humankind. www.fao.org/docrep/003/x3910e/x3910e08.htm The study of the production of better offspring by the careful selection of parents. nandankanan.tripod.com/scienceterms.htm

link to google definition of eugenics


I see all the above definitions of eugenics in British Society today. We may have a seperate discussion about this, too, if you like ( I have the time to partake).

Please notice in one definition how Nazis used it as a means of social cleansing. That happened, it was a fact.

The current suicides among people with mental health issues (and other vulnerable people) is a fact. It is being brought about by government policy. Maybe this is just a downside symptom of the policy, but it is taking place.

Now the government have been told by many professional people that this is happening. If they now change the policy then they have responded to this symptom of their policy. If they knowingly now do not change tact then they are CONSCIOUSLY allowing their policy to push a vulnerable group of people into such drastic expression as suicide. If they consciously allow this to happen as a result of policy, this is to me practising eugenics.

I am very interested to learn as to why you are more interested in trying to prove one word that is open for debate in my post as a wrong conclusion, than you are about the fact that people with mental health problems are killing themselves because they cannot handle what is being put upon them by government policy.

To tell you the truth I am not that much concerned with whether it is eugenics or not. My concern is that the group of which I am a member is being treated with such lack of care as to make some people in this group commit suicide because they see this as a better alternative than having to deal with the institutions that control and ration their livelihood without them having any kind of say other than voting once every 5 years.

I stick to the conclusions I have drawn and to clarify if now the government continues this ruthless policy in the know that people are commiting suicide because of it then this is the kind of eugenics that Nazis practised and endorsed.

It is not my fault there are benefit cheats. I am not a benefit cheat. But I am having to suffer with the stress of what I deem to be an unfair and "loaded" examination and interview that wants the outcome to be that I will have to by force do things I am not able to do if I am to have a home and a meal to eat.

That is wrong. You may think that is ok. We are entitled to that, but I will fight my corner as you fight your's.

I don't want vulnerable people to be put in a position where they take their own lives. My friend only last year took his own life because he could no longer cope with the stigma, loneliness and insecurity of being a HUMAN BEING living in a society that has these kind of so called "values".

I will continue to discuss with you, at your leisure, about this, but please excuse me if I do not answer you promptly as I may have to leave the PC for periods of time, but I am quite willing to keep a rational, if somewhat heated but polite discussion going in this thread.

My motive for this post was to draw peoples attention here to a symptom of a policy that is having severe and cruel repercussions on a vulnerable minority group.

Britain has become a country where 'ain't nothin' goin' on but the rent' is the sole philosophy of the government. When this happens and everything revolves around the bean counters, and the government attempts to get the country furthur and furthur into debt by GIVING AWAY all our money to other countries, ie foreign aid, the Eu, WARS etc, a country is in deep mire!
Every last penny is all people care about to survive and the weak go to the wall because the bean counters discount the disabled as of any value in 'bean production'.
Apparantly, if you can lift your left arm now you CAN and WILL work. Where and how is not answered. If you do not..............well, I wonder what the answer to that one is going to be?
Mental health issues, and this goes without saying to most sane people, are as serious as physical health issues. What if someone is agoraphobic, or can't sit in a room with a door shut, or can't use public transport, or get into a car etc. You cannot see or measure these serious problems BUT you can easily claim they do not exist, hence destroying the sufferer, cutting off their hope of any help, survival and even their existence.

This is becoming a very bad country, run by very bad people who want to do very bad things.......and are suceeding. However, what goes around, comes around.

It's not just about those with mental health issues and disability. There is a horrible naziesque whiff in the air demonising anyone on benefits & the BBC are buying into it all with a gusto.
Want people to conveniently forget the billions of tax evaded? Need people to forget all about ministers spending tax payers money on floating duck houses? Simples, just get everyone with an ISA to rabidly detest anyone who needs help in society, while they in turn moan endlessly about their Child benefit (otherwise known as wine money) being stopped.

reply to post by Mike_A


Yes, I used to work with people with learning disabilities, young people with behavioural problems, elderly with senile dementia, people with mental health problems and people with severe head injuries.

I have read Lang, Carl Jung, Maslow, Freud, etc.

For me personally it is not a science but an art. Above I have listed severeal men each of whom were of differing opinions.

Science is based on facts; what is provable and demonstrable in experiments time and time again as a law and concrete pattern. As Jung and Freud noted differently people respond differently in behaviour to the same stresses.

Like with the famous experiment where a panel were ordered to give electric shocks to an individual and most, in the belief it was really happening, did administer the shock, where as some did not. Two different responses from different kinds of people.

For me there are no facts in psychology. It is a pseudo science that just as readily might be called a study of mind-games, human to human.

I will try and find that article by the lady. Give me an hour or so!

Maybe this all fits into the governments plan. After all, with less mentally ill people alive to claim benefits, thats more money saved. Yes this is cynical but when you remember this government is the same government currently killing innocent people in Libya for resources. The way the animals in power have trampled all over the vulnerable of society in implementing these cuts is unforgivable.

reply to post by Revolution9

Looking after the learning impaired IS and art BUT you don't get artist on £5.90, or whatever the minimum wage is. You tend to get uneducated thugs with little going on in their heads. I have seen these 'types' rush into these jobs and the result if NOT pretty.

reply to post by Elliot


To be fair, a large portion of British wealth came at the expense of others around the world. So giving some back is the least they should be doing. However as usual, they are giving the poor peoples money away while the rich who stole it in the first place get richer.

reply to post by Suspiria


Hello Suspiria!

Well I am coming from the same place as you. That is my concern. There is a very definite naziesque whiff in the air in Britain.

There is a marked change in attitudes here; from the liberalism and acceptance of difference in the late sixties and seventies, to the narrowly defined borders of behavior for the sake of ease of manipulation and mass control by economics in 2011!

I don't like the narrowness of borders that is now because I am a very complex, diverse, eccentric, unpredictable, self-controlling, experimenting, free, thinking, questioning HUMAN BEING. I feel my freedom and character to be under long term and sustained ATTACK!

And I do fully agree with you that great hypocrisy is here at work. Only today that is the very word that came out of my mouth in retort to what I see happening to us in the UK, U.S and Europe.

wish you well, my friend.

duck houses second homes porn movies ect They are just a bunch of crooks... No money for the ill or disabled, but lots of money for Trident or invading some country that wont toe the line. Eugenics? hmmm The whole system is wrong, we need to throw out these assholes in govt and start again. 1984 was a warning to the future, not a blue print as our govts seems to think.

reply to post by Firefly_

The rich became rich of the backs of the poor in the UK.
It was not just the foreign peoples who made the rich the way they are.
Interesting however to note that to put a learning impaired person into a care home costs £3 500 a week. Is that possible? Don't you think that someone is pulling a 'funny' on that? Some very rich owners of these companies are overcharging the country for warehousing the disabled and the government allow it!

Often we forget about the humble english peoples. My mother, who is not english, is always complaining how lazy english people are, much to my disdain. She has not worked for the last 30 years and has lived off benefits as she has had to care for her husband. However, my hard working english husband works 60 hours a week for us to survive, pay taxes so that the government can claim expenses, run down our country, bomb other countries and generally make a mess of everything. And yet, people claim, like MR Cameron recently, that the english are responsible for problems in other parts of the world?! Correct, the super rich elite thieves are responsible for the problems of the world and NOT the down trodden english man or woman!

I'm sick of hearing the english, the ordinary hard working salt of the earth type of english man and woman blamed for the faults of a few at the top and those taking advantage at the bottom of the heap.

Originally posted by Mike_A
If those things had suddenly increased at a rate in line with the number of people claiming benefits then perhaps but as far as I know that is not the case, for example services have increased and crime has fallen.

Please provide supporting information about service increases. I would suggest any such information is hyperbolic! Fact is, services are being cut, all part of the austerity measures that are designed in such a way as to further disempower the working, middle and under classes.

Crime has not fallen. The police have come under heavy criticism for not acting with the result that more and more people no longer report crime unless it is to get Crime Ref. Number for insurance purposes. The figures have been cooked, that's alll! And that is what happens when police and other 'services' become overly burdened with beaurocratic and target driven political agenda's.

At the end of the day we do have a limited budget, there are people claiming benefits that they do not need, there has been an unusual increase in the number claiming benefits and we do have a serious deficit problem.

It might be difficult but we cannot ignore the problem. Denouncing any attempt to address the situation as eugenics is hyperbole and it is far from helpful to the point of being counter productive.

Whilst it is true there is an unacceptable amount of fraudulent claims for incapacity benefits as opposed to unemployment benefits, the system itself has created this problem. If unemployment benefits were on a par with incapacity benefits, fraud would be considerably reduced. By creating degrees of destitution rather than a level playing field for all state dependents, the state itself encourages dishonesty.

Dismissing increases in self harm even to the point of suicide as being merely a by product of necessary spending reviews implies complicit acceptance that the state has the right to act with moral impunity.