ZOMG!!! got stopped by a cop just now, anomalous behavior on officers part

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by mademyself1984


Seriously? You keep proving my point. It has nothing to do with my "fear" of the police. It has everything to do with my Bachelors in Criminal Justice. You clearly are not "familiar" with the Terry Stop case. Nor are you familiar with what "rights" of yours are being violated. No rights are violated if an officer believes it is necessary to question you, the simplest conclusion to your being questioned would be to acknowledge for whatever reason the officer is doing his job. Now, you can claim your rights are being violated, however, they aren't. It's pretty simple, if you aren't doing anything wrong, 99.9 percent of officers will acknowledge that, thank you for your time and patience, and be on their way. The second you act like an arrogant prick, you are susceptible to a "warrantless search" and potentially more inconvenience than that depending on your behavior from that point forward. I've been stopped numerous times for would have been minor traffic violations at strange hours of the night. Did I need to be pulled over? Most likely not. The time of night/morning gave the officer reasonable suspicion (which they could technically have of anyone on the road once bars have closed), the moment I did something "not within traffic codes/laws" I gave said officers probable cause to stop me, issued whatever tests, perform whatever searches, and take whatever action, whether it was a warning, a ticket, or making an arrest, they felt necessary. Because I was in fact doing nothing wrong other than a minor slip up, and I was cordial, patient, and cooperative with the officer who was in fact doing his job, and nowhere near violating any of my "rights", I was treated politely in return, and free to go. I've had an instance where I probably could have been arrested, because I was borderline over the limit to be driving, and my attitude and behavior with the officer earned me the chance to make a phone call and have someone meet me at my car to drive me and my vehicle home. It's called discretion. There's another term to look up whenever you get around to it. Honestly I don't know how any of this is that complicated. If an officer stops you for literally no reason, treats you disrespectfully, makes an unlawful arrest, or beats you or tases you or draws his weapon, perhaps even shoots, for no reason. Fine, that officer clearly violated your rights as a human being. However, it doesn't happen as much as you sensationalist "I hate pigs" crowd would like to believe.

Did you really just act high and mighty because you have a bachelors? REALLY????

I have to say, this is the second time you have resorted to immediately jumping to name calling and insults, and it's the last time I'll stand for it. You, with your impressive bachelors, aught to know that resorting to name calling and insults is a sign of someone without an argument.

As I have said all along, there is a reason that this officer ASKED the person, and didn't TELL them what to do. It is because they did not have a specific enough description to fully identify him as a suspect. If they had, they would have detained him immediately.

You and our google warrior Terry Stop cases are irrelevant. They simply did not have enough to reasonable search him, which is why it was all request, and not demand. To be a Terry Stop, the officer must have, and this is the SPECIFIC language, “specific and articulable facts”. This means, as I have said ALL ALONG, that I have EVERY RIGHT to ask for the facts of WHY I am being approached.

And again, AS I HAVE SAID ALL ALONG, if he cannot provide them, I have no further obligation.

Furthermore, if the officer did not ask him if he had weapons on him, which, by the OP's description, he did not, he does not have a right to search for them, in a suspicion case.

And again, I never said I hate pigs. That is sensationalist tripe.

Take your bachelors and get a real education.

No, he probably asked instead of demanded, because he who fit the description, wasn't being a pain in the officer's ass. If he had denied the search, the officer would have eventually done it anyways, because the officer HAS that right. And no, to perform a Terry Stop, (consider when you attend a sporting event, or concert, and officers pat down those entering, Terry Stop) an officer simply needs to approach you and ask you if he may search you. Again, if at which point you decline, he now has probable cause to utilize his police discretion, to perform a warrantless search. Again. Open a book.And I "resort" to name calling, when the person being called the name "fits the description". And yeah, I got "high and mighty" because of my Bachelors? Not exactly but I suppose it would make sense that is your assumption. I'm simply pointing out that I have been educated on my rights as a civilian as well as the rights of officers of the law, and I know the difference between a violation of my rights and an officer doing his job. Clearly, you aren't understanding the difference between the two. Which leads me to my question, exactly what schooling, training, education; do you have on the matter?

reply to post by bhornbuckle75


I hope you understand that psychopaths reason like you.

reply to post by mademyself1984

Seriously? You keep proving my point. It has nothing to do with my "fear" of the police. It has everything to do with my Bachelors in Criminal Justice.

"I got told this was how real life works in college, look at my bachelor, I am now qualified to take away your basic rights - under human rights breaching laws X, Y and Z"

Good for you, although I wouldn't want to be a cop in the coming years.

Originally posted by Sp33d
I like this story. I do things that are deemed illegal, which I feel are ridiculous laws put in place to stress power. On one hand I feel "im not doing anything wrong therefore i can smoke my pot" the law feels otherwise. Point is is that these guys have a job to fulfill. Ive been pulled over about 10 times and I have received ONE ticket. And it was for a seatbelt. We always say cops abuse there power but on the other hand we find it hard to say we citizens abuse our power. Yes freedom Yes freewill but where is the line drawn? Cops gotta do there job jsut as we have to fulfill ours. I am not saying hey lets give cops unlimited power but I mean reall....if they feel I match a description let them do there job and count me out as a NON-Suspect. There is NOTHING wrong with that. People like to put up a fight just because they can, because they know a little about the law. but the truth is is that if you have NOTHING to worry about let the man/woman do their job and carry on...

P.S. I have been caught with Marijuana a bunch of times (although its practically legal) I found honesty and cooperation are the best way to get out of trouble.

Good story OP! S&F

Yea I feel the exact same way, the people who tell you what you can and cannot put into YOUR body are the enemies of the human race, they are holding people back from relaxation, medication, endless products and an unlimited supply of oil paper wood medicine and it restores the land.

Meanwhile, they have NO PROBLEM AT ALL, with selling us cigs, alcohol, coffee, and secretly selling heroin from afghan and god knows what else. Heres the point, there is no bodies from hemp, you can search the history books all day and never find 1 death from it. Meanwhile, alcohol destroys lives, cigs destroy peoples lungs, coffee even kills 10,000 a year. All so they can make money off of synthetic medication with tons of side effects, almost all of those commercials say "serious side effects and even death may occur" why are they selling us medicine that is KILLING US?!?!

Picture this all the people who are yelling "COP BASHING THREADS OMG"

What if an alien species landed and lived with us, then out of nowhere, if you smoked a joint or do any drugs, you get kidnapped from your home/family, put in a rape cage with people that will beat you up, and keep you there for years.

We would declare war on those people in a second, but because those people are our own and we have been conditioned to believe we need these people for our own security.

If you want to have a good police force, you have to pay them actual money, not 40g a year or whatever crappy wage they get. It is too easy for a cop to become corrupt now. Any other job in the world you would think you would have to go to college and be a professional to be given that much power as police have, but no you can just sign up and begin training and you are all of a sudden the good guys.

nice propaganda piece

2nd line like all of the other posters do

edited to say, EVERY other story on here gets shut down without anything to back it up news story or proof wise

but here we can just pretty much make up any story we want involving good cops and it gets tons of attention


yet a ufo video with tons of separate videos gets shut down

interesting way things work around here


i think its shameful that we should have to focus on a cop doing something good, or doing their job PROPERLY

its like oh wow this cop didnt abuse the crap out of me, lets give him a big pat on the back and a shiny new medal


hes a cop, its his job to do things the way he did them

I once had a windowless van. My first ride at 16. I spent the better part of the summer getting pulled over by cops. One time they tailed me i pulled over and stood outside my van with my license in hand.

Guess I should have taken off the letters "free candy in the van" It was a bad year.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
I disagree, and I would challenge it as far as I could. He can ask me to cooperate, but unless he has read me my rights, I dont have to oblige. I am innocent until proven guilty. Just because I look like someone that has been described in a crime is not probable cause, and does not supersede my rights.

Considering that the OP was not under arrest, he could not have resisted. But he had every right to decline the officer's requests. To do so politely is not resisting, and does not give the cop any more rights than they had to begin with.

Yeah you could but he could also ask you to accompany him to the police station for further questioning. Should you refuse he can arrest you on suspicion and arrest you. If you still refuse he will arrest you for resisting.
Likely you'll spend a few hours in a cell while they process you.

The OP did the correct thing, he obliged the request and it was all over within a few minutes.

Have been pulled over by the cops many times, I politely show them my ID before they request it.
Answer all their questions without a fuss and they let me go my way.
I received a un-roadworthy ticket on my car once on my way to pick up my wife from work. I had a piece of rope from the boot of my car tying up the exhast pipe to stop it dragging on the road.
The cop informed it was a $140 fine on top of the un-roadworthy sticker but he waived it and let me pick up the wife so long as I went straight home and not drive the car until it was repaired.
Only because I was polite and didn't give him a hard time and was co-operative..

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


They arnt all bad, unless they pull you over for speeding.

Originally posted by curious7
Why make their jobs a lot harder than they have to be? Most police officers are just normal everyday men and women who wanna get on with it and feed themselves and their families with no hassle. Why create hassle for them just because you read a few bits and pieces about the overly aggressive douchebags that ruin the profession for everybody else?

Exactly. Why make their job any harder!
Imagine all the scumbags, murderers, theives they have to deal with not to mention fights they have to break up between drug/alcohol fueled knuckleheads, crazies with guns/knives, road accident victims (including children), suicides involving gunshot wounds or hangings, breaking the news to family about the death of loved ones...
God I could go on and on...

A friend of mine, a massive man once, is now a mental wreck from having to deal with all that and much more.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


You know what, I think it is YOU that need's to get a proper education. If you knew how to read, you would have noticed in the OP that the poster said that he came in on the END of the conversation the Officer was having with Dispatch. Comprende??? Or do you want me to put it into simple words for you. MAN COME LATE INTO CONVERSATION. DIDN'T HEAR ALL. MEANS HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT ELSE HAD BEEN SAID. Derp derp derp you get all "ZOMG NARC DON'T HATE ON ME PIGGY!!!".

At the end of the day, OP did the right thing, ended up having no problems.

And yes, I have had run ins with cops, plenty of times. It would be at least 30 times, due to my work, and me driving so much. (Usually it was being pulled over for Random Breath Testing). Wanna know how many times I had any real "problems" with them? Twice. Once when an older cop decided to check my car, which was a company car, after being RBT'd. No idea why he wanted to, but he did, and the rego was out. Which meant there was no insurance either. Boom, $2200 in fines. No charges against me, and I didn't pay the fines cause it was a company car.

And the 2nd time was recently, when I ended up getting arrested. Why? I tried sneaking into a bar (because I had been refused, but I'm always pushing my luck ) and when I tried sneaking in, security came over and went off at me, and ended up pushing me. Me, having been drinking booze for 12 hours, didn't take kindly to that, and pushed the guy back (almost flooring him too. I'm strong normally, but when I get fired up when drunk, I'm a hell of alot stronger).

1 cop comes over, and me being an arrogant prick, looked at him, and said "what are you gonna do, midget?" cause he was about 8 inches shorter than me, and replied with "well, I'm going to arrest you".

This is where the fun began. I grabbed him by his jacket, and started pushing him back, while yelling "come on, arrest me!!!" Meanwhile 2 other cops came over, and in the end it took 3 of them to cuff me and put me in the paddy wagon. $1100 worth of fines later, and NO charges (I was fined for not being 50 metres from the place when I got told I couldnt get in cause I was drunk, and "re-entering the premises" even though I hadn't been in there), and it was all over.

And you know what? It was MY fault, because I put myself into that position. If I had just moved along like I had been asked, I wouldn't have been arrested, and I wouldn't have been fined. But in your case, they weren't giving me my rights I deserved.

Funny thing is, I ended up shaking the cops hands when I left the station, because they were actually decent guys. One of them that stayed with me the whole time actually told me that I could have been done for resisting arrest, common assault, and a couple of other things too, like swearing. They actually used their discretion, and decided not to charge me with those, because they could see I wasn't being a prick or anything, and was a decent person.

The funny thing that I still laugh about now was the fact that one of the cops told me that they were worried about me, because they hadn't dealt that many guys that werent on some sort of drug, that had that amount of strength, and they had to deal with Bikies all the time. And me being the smart arse, I joked back with the comment "sh*t, you should see me when I'm sober, and I'm not all over they place!!!" Even they had a bit of a chuckle at that one.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


In addition to the previous mention of the term Wyrrd, it is also a term used to describe the scenario when just before a warrior goes into battle he gets a look in his eye,a set to his jaw, a certain essence about him. This was often said to happen to a man before a battle which would claim his life, or bring him close to the reaper. It was often used thusly...

And so it was that the warriors of the clan stood upon the plain in the early morn. Each of them was a fell handed reaver when battle was joined, but the cheiftan had a fey look in his eye, as if his Wyrrd was upon him...

Get the idea? There are many other meanings, including any strange and perhaps supernatural sensation. It is perhaps this to which the OP refers, rather than the foreknowlege of death, which I alluded to above.

Now, to topic. I have been stopped by police in my home town before. A police car stopped me at two in the morning when I was walking home from the pub along the sea front. I was wearing an urban cammo bandana round my head, have a full beard, was also wearing a urban cammo pair of combats, work boots, and a thick coat, it being November, and not particularly warm.
I can only assume it was for this reason that the police stopped me, because the fellow inside asked me if my name was (insert unlikely arabic name here) . At this point I told him that my name is *my name is as heartily Anglo Saxon as is possible* and I didnt know the gentleman he was reffering to. He then apologised and told me " I thought you might have been this bloke" and promptly showed me a sheet of paper on which was printed a set of mugshots of terror suspects. He pointed to the third one on the top row.

So nice to be confused with a maniac. No , wait, so nice to be confused with a dangerous maniac.... no thats not right... So nice to be confused with a dangerous maniac with questionable reasons for being such.... yes thats right.

Originally posted by TheDevilOfLies
nice propaganda piece

2nd line like all of the other posters do

edited to say, EVERY other story on here gets shut down without anything to back it up news story or proof wise

but here we can just pretty much make up any story we want involving good cops and it gets tons of attention


yet a ufo video with tons of separate videos gets shut down

interesting way things work around here


i think its shameful that we should have to focus on a cop doing something good, or doing their job PROPERLY

its like oh wow this cop didnt abuse the crap out of me, lets give him a big pat on the back and a shiny new medal


hes a cop, its his job to do things the way he did them

edit on 28-5-2011 by TheDevilOfLies because: (no reason given)

It's because its become rare for good cops to be good, it is more common for them to be corrupt and more of enemies than protectors.

Plus there is no videos of cops doing what they are paid to do, but people are FAST to prove a cop doing wrong.

good morning folks!

just got up 11:53am [ahhh! freedom!]

and will be reviewing from where i left off yesterday

meanwhile here are links and google translations, with a couple of corrections, about the armed bank robbery yesterday

it seems my height, build and having my hands in my pockets were what
gave the officer a reasonable doubt

back in an hour or so
as you were

www.elnuevodia.com...

27 Mayo 2011
1:50 p.m.

Armed assault at Banco Popular
The man fled the scene in a van

Ricardo Cortés Chico/[email protected]

A man robbed at gunpoint at about 12:19 noon of the Banco Popular branch at Borinquen Avenue in Barrio Obrero, police said.

According to preliminary data from the case, the man , of whom there are barely accurate descriptions currently, fled the scene in a white colored Chevrolet Astrovan.

an unknown amount of money stolen.


www.primerahora.com...

viernes, 27 de mayo de 2011
02:45 p.m.
Primera Hora

Robbery at Banco Popular Borinquen Avenue at Barrio Obrero

Police have spent hours on the trail of a man about six feet high, robbed the branch of Banco Popular on Borinquen Avenue in Barrio Obrero in Santurce at noon.

The man was described as of slim build, fair complexion, short dark hair and about six feet tall.

It was reported that the heist was conducted by a note and took an undetermined amount of cash. Fled the scene on board a bus white Chevrolet Astro Van.

Authorities were searching for the vehicle and the individual, which is believed may have inked hands with banks explosive device placed at the bags of money.

The Theft and Fraud Division of Financial Institutions of the Police is in charge of the investigation and sought the cooperation of the public to help find the whereabouts of the individual, the agent reported Francisco De Jesus Delgado, the headquarters press office general.

You can call confidentially at 787-782-9006, 787-343-2020.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


If they're in Spain, which I assume is the case, the laws may be different.

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


Something is obviously wrong with this cop you encountered. How did that cop slip through the cracks at the Police Acadamy?

I would say this guy is a failure as a "Law Enforcement Officer". He needs to get with the program. Hasn't he heard all US citizens are potential terrorists, acording to the DHS? He should have came at you with his tazer in one hand and a club in the other and used them both for no good reason. If I were you, I'd call his supervisor and advise them of the type of bleading-heart thay have on duty.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I would cooperate in those circumstances, personally. I think the OP did the right thing.

I am vehemently against someone stopping me for a tail light being out and then asking to search my vehicle. But I would cooperate with this type of request without a problem. Voluntarily cooperating with the police, imho, when it matters, helps to prevent the erosion of our rights. And, voluntarily cooperating is NOT having your rights taken away, its voluntarily cooperating.

The attitude that "the people" should never cooperate with police reminds me of ghetto people and their attitude. Its stupid. It fosters animosity between the two groups, and its counter productive to the people themselves who refuse to cooperate, who are killed, raped, robbed, etc., at much higher rates than people in neighborhoods with people who understand that ideally, police HELP citizens police the community. It SHOULD be a cooperative effort, not something we ignore and leave all to them. And not something we make harder for them just for the fun of it.

I really hate the "us against them" attitude some cops have, and I really, really hate abusive cops (or anyone who abuses power) and I fight against every legal erosion of our Constitutional rights. But that doesnt mean I hate cops or would not help them if I could, and if what they were doing was within the law, and just.

Half the problem of the "us against them" attitude some cops have comes from us.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
While I get your point, it complacency like this that is leading to the elimination of our rights.

I would have politely declined his requests until he had a better reason to search me. A cop does not have the right to put his hands on you, just because you 'fit a description'.

Actually the cop does. It's called a Terry Frisk.

Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), was a decision by the United States Supreme Court which held that the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures is not violated when a police officer stops a suspect on the street and frisks him without probable cause to arrest, if the police officer has a reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime and has a reasonable belief that the person "may be armed and presently dangerous." (392 U.S. 1, at 30.)

Source

Please make your argument that you don't care what the US Supreme Court says. I would be interested to know how any constitutional rights would be enforced without a court that is free to interpret them and apply them to real life. The Constitution itself says nothing of wiretapping because it didn't exist in the 1700s. Hence, without the Supreme Court, there would be no prohibition on illegal wiretapping without a warrant. Of Course, the neocons have pushed the Patriot Act out and killed the Constitution but whatever.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Where I see your points, I have to give you mine. I was in Law enforcement for a number of years, and am now out, for many reasons...anyways.

Your rights aren't being violated to purposely inflict a "policed" state. Or as it says.

That officer, in this predicament streamlined the process of closing avenues for the true suspect. The suspect that causes the public's "protected and served" needs.

The individual that was robbed would really love to hear, that though you did nothing wrong, you inherently obscured an investigation/pursuit. Questioning your rights is absolutely ok. And a smart officer will recognize and be able to explain:

"If you did not commit this robbery, please show me the contents of your pockets, failure to do so will result in arrest on reasonable grounds, processing, and once determined you are not the suspect, you will be released."

Seem like a fear tactic to give up your rights? It might to paranoids. But when the victim of the robbery called for help, and now has to hear that the bad guy got away, because YOUR rights may or may not have been violated politely, now creates another cop hater.

IT's not a push to create a policed state. It's a push to catch the bad guy faster. There is MORE than enough red tape to con volute an investigation. You want to push your red tape too? Don't complain then, when we can't catch the bad guy that victimized you.

I mean a road side "hoop check" for suspect reasons, would be a violation. Patting your pockets, on reasonable grounds, after permitting the leo to do so, is no violation.

So would you have wanted to be arrested, processed and searched? Rather than consent to a quick pat down? and let the leo move on? What would have been the ideal scenario for you, here? I'm just curious.

For many reasons I left law enforcement. The red tape, the inability to actually protect, trying to enforce 100 year old laws...trying to be the 'nice one' and getting shot at, for my troubles. Cops have it tough enough, definitely. Yeah, they are "supposed" to be held to a higher standard. But they are people. They don't make much money, they usually start off cause they like to catch the bad guys, protect people.
Sadly, unlike other jobs, it is rare to stand back like a painter, or carpenter and admire your work.

Either way, I guess people see this thread in two ways. Hate em, or not.

would you mind placing your hands on that wall there sir?

why?

we're on the alert for a suspect whose description matches yours, this will be over quickly either way,sir

so i "assume the position" my Wyrrd isn't acting up and i'm not even feeling nervous so...

sure , no problem, though i have to advise you that i don't have any ID on me at the moment.

i get a quick pat-down [non tsa-version] while i refer to my Semitic appearance which is referred to in local spanish as "arabe"

oh no sir! it's nothing like that at all. [turns out it's a case of armed robbery.
would you mind removing what ever that is in your pocket sir?

it's just a leather pouch with 4 flash drives which i show explaining that i repair computers.
oh may i have your name sir?

i give him my legal/given by parents name [ the one with the squeaky clean record]

thank you sir and makes to leave...

and halfway there turns around [Colombo came to mind] and returns
holds out his hand and introduces him self
have a nice day sir.

and then gives a full description of my appearance and clothes so i won't be stopped again!
BREOOPP!!
copy that
BREOOPP!!

and rides off

edit on 27-5-2011 by DerepentLEstranger because: added edit

edit on 27-5-2011 by DerepentLEstranger because: added edit & additional clarification

edit on 27-5-2011 by DerepentLEstranger because: added edit & additional clarification

WTF.
-What if you had some kind of anxiety and you were feeling nervous? Do you suggest that he had permission to force you to comply?

-Then he takes your word for who you are and allows you to take the stuff out of your own pocket. (First that stuff was none of his business if it was not what was reported stolen and second how did he know it was not stolen in the first place if he was so interested in it.)

- What if the stuff in the pouch was weed? you would have gotten arrested for sure.

-And he shook your hand?

- I was riding my mountain bike in Zephyrhills and some cop pulls in front of me, jumps out of his car and says, "You got ID?"
I said, "Of course. What’s up?"
He said, "I’ve never seen you around here before. I just want to know who you are."
I extended my hand and introduced myself.
He said, "I don't shake hands."
I handed him my ID and said, "You’re not better than me dude."
He said, "Is that what this is about?"
I didn't say anything.
He ran my ID and said, "See, that wasn't so hard."
I said, "You got everybody looking at me like I'm someone they can't trust. That’s not cool."
He got back in his car and that was the end.

Anyhow, your story sounds a little bit fake.
But I will admit, the only thing worse than a cop is a mother #ing thief.

edit on 28-5-2011 by president because: i'm retarded. and at the bottom of page six.