Washington State takes the next step towards socialism; Parents now have to get a doctors signature

Originally posted by westcoast
Oh, I completely agree with you. Our government right now is very screwed up. Giving them even more power and authority about what we can and can not to do with our bodies is NOT the answer.

But why do you think you would be giving them any power? In the UK, the Government doesn't dictate what treatment you can and can't have, in fact they are trying very hard to give us more choice right now. You and your doctor decide the best course of treatment, form a variety of sources. The only difference is, I won't get a bill for £45,000 for having the temerity to want to stay alive.

Originally posted by westcoast
If there were an actuall outbreak of a deadly pandemic, such as the black plague than I obviously would chose to vaccinate (if one were available). I am sorry though, I do NOT think Hepititis A, Chicken pox, and several others fit this bill. These are OPTIONAL and should remain as such. I should NOT be forced to have a doctor sign a waiver for me, because big brother doesn't trust my judgement.

I must point out here that here, in the UK with our "socialist" system, we are not forced to have any injections. It is entirely our choice.

So would you like to see the latest vaccination recomendations from the CDC?

Here is a link that shows the schedule for 0-6 yrs of age. There are 15 different vaccines, with a total of 39 injections. blah.....

0-6 yrs of age


But wait! That's not all...

7-18 yrs


For all those adults out there who don't want to miss out on the fun, they haven't forgotten you either!

adult schedule

reply to post by westcoast


Wow, thats loads...

I dont think my kids have had anywhere near that many injections... Don't quote me, however, as the missus knows all that down to the fine detail, but that seems like alot of vaccinations!

reply to post by stumason


It IS a lot. Part of what concerns me. Just in the four years between my two kids, the requirements changed by several additional injections. It is scary,and they just keep piling them on. I am not talking about life-saving vaccines here. It is out of control and they (government) are doing everything they can to coerce us parents into going along with their schedule. Washington State is the target due to our large exemption rate.

So? They're the medically trained professionals. They know what they're talking about. You, most probably don't

There's nothing wrong with a bit socialism anyway

Originally posted by Griffo
So? They're the medically trained professionals. They know what they're talking about. You, most probably don't

There's nothing wrong with a bit socialism anyway

I think Griffo, lokdog and FredT all make excellent, valid points. But in some threads good logic is moot. You can lead a horse to drink but you can't make him water.

For some it is difficult to learn from the past, so mistakes have to be made all over again, and the children will pay the price.

reply to post by westcoast


This isn't socialism.

This is fascism!

I read 3 lines of the OP and I stopped...

Sure the story seems unfair...

BUT THIS IS NOT SOCIALISM

Stop bashing the socialism word into something it isn't

Tyrannical, despot, police state - YES! Socialism it is not. Shake off the Fox News boogie man.

Research before you post.


www.worldsocialism.org...


You're welcome.

Originally posted by westcoast
reply to post by syrinx high priest

 

If you choose to have surgery, just like if you choose to receive a vaccine, you sign a waver stating that you are aware of the risks.

This is about FORCING me as a parent to schedule an appointment with a physician for me and my child, which I have to then PAY for, to be counseled on how I am making the wrong decsion, and then have that doctor sign the waiver, stating that I have been informed. I have a sneaking suspicion that most insurance companies are NOT going to pay for this 'consult'.

This is about bullying parents into doing something and paying for a service that they should not have to pay for!

It's called psychological coercion and it is very successful. When using fear (swine flu campaign) didn't work, they are now resorting to passing laws.

I quite agree with your above statement. Please bear with me.....so it is my understanding that these vaccinations are offered yearly at the schools....and your child will be vaccinated after (July 22, 2011) whether you want them to be or not; unless you have a signed statement from a medical person?

Also.....I am suspicious of vaccinations myself.....do they really help?

What is worse is that if you are forced vaccinated, like in my state, you can't sue the vaccine makers if somethign goes wrong. Now how is that?

reply to post by westcoast

My children are grown now, but when they were young I made sure that they received all of the required immunizations. The problem is that they still became ill with some of the same illnesses the vaccines were supposed to prevent!
Imagine my surprise when after receiving all of the required doses of MMR vaccine when both of my kids got the measles! And the HepA- guess what? Apparently my children didn't develope the anti-bodies the vaccine is supposed to create and my girls had to go through the series three different times before the school would finally back off about it. The series for HepA is three shots given over specific time periods (months). It took many unnecessary trips to the doctor and for what?
And chickenpox- that was a joke! My children both had a bodacious case of chickenpox before they ever started school. The school insisted I fill out paperwork at the school nurses office every school year explaining WHY my kids didn't need the chickenpox vaccine. The girls had to be there to show proof i.e. their scars.
I understand why immunizations for all is considered important, but I believe as PARENTS the ultimate decision to vaccinate or not should be left up to YOU!

I agree with you about the vaccinations, but this is not socialism. Any country that collects taxes is a socialist country. As socialism in short means "collective ownership", where basically everybody chips in money so they could afford something. It's what pays for your military and other government programs.

The problem is not with the enforcement of vaccination. It is hard to draw the line, are we protecting the kids or are we doing them more harm? The real problem is we CAN NOT TRUST those who are enforcing this, and because of this, I understand your stand.

reply to post by westcoast




even boondock doesn't get it

sign a permit/waiver[?]
and agents of TCOTBIP have your name and your childs name

on a list.

anecdotal evidence, i know, but i missed out on being jumped from 3rd grade to 4th
why?

cause i missed nearly a year of school.

why? mumps,measles, rubella, german measles,chickenpox
right after i got my shots

also the only time i got a tetanus shot i got a touch of lockjaw.

Vaccine Dangers- lot's of links

Originally posted by Liquesence
These vaccinations exist for a reason (prevent spread of disease/infection),

Well, not really. That is what They TELL Us. But it's all about the money/power/energy.

They have concocted evil, dangerous stuff and tout it as "life-saving," when They make loads of money off it, and later, as people show symptoms of the poisoning, They can sell more "medicine" (that does further damage and requires further "medicine" They sell).

Originally posted by boniknik
It's what pays for your military and other government programs.

Mostly military - an unneeded thing that makes war suppliers billions. If We stopped spending money on war, We could feed, clothe and house everyOne on this planet easily and abundantly.

As for needing someone to sign off on One's choice not to inject poisons into the bloodstream of Their children's bodies... It's the parents' choice, and legislating road blocks is wrong.

Originally posted by westcoast
i]reply to post by stumason

 

On the plus side, if it only infects the right-wing bible thumpers, who really only hate Obama because he is black and are so hell bent on being scared of something, then that's a good thing.

[


I take great offense to this. How about you keep your racist comments out of my thread and stay on topic?

I love it He is busy defending the people who use genocide against blacks and others.

See Links listed at Vaccines: Sterilisation & Abortion

.....

History of pharmaceutical interests

In the early half of the 20th century, petrochemical giants organized a coup on the medical research facilities, hospitals and universities. The Rockefeller family sponsored research and donated sums to universities and medical schools which had drug based research. They further extended this policy to foreign universities and medical schools where research was drug based through their "International Education Board". Establishments and research which were were not drug based were refused funding and soon dissolved in favor of the lucrative pharmaceutical industry. In 1939 a "Drug Trust" alliance was formed by the Rockefeller empire and the German chemical company IG Farben (Bayer). After World War Two, IG Farben was dismantled but later emerged as separate corporations within the alliance. Well known companies included General Mills, Kellogg, Nestle, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Procter and Gamble, Roche and Hoechst (Sanofi-Aventis). The Rockefeller empire, in tandem with Chase Manhattan Bank (now JP Morgan Chase), owns over half of the pharmaceutical interests in the United States. It is the largest drug manufacturing combine in the world. Since WWII, the pharmaceutical industry has steadily netted increasing profits to become the world's second largest manufacturing industry; [3], [4] after the arms industry.....



IG Farben & Auschwitz

Auschwitz was the largest mass extermination factory in human history. However, few people are aware that Auschwitz was a 100% subsidiary of IG Farben. On April 14, 1941, in Ludwigshafen, Otto Armbrust, the IG Farben board member responsible for the Auschwitz project....

www.sourcewatch.org...

What on earth does vaccinations have to do with socialism? If as you state this is to do with big pharma and profits then its NOT socialism but capitalism!!!!!!!

What happens when your child dies from a preventable disease that can be prevented with a vaccination. Let me have a wild guess here : the aggrieved parent will not blame their own arrogance but instead look for somebody to blame....the doctor who did not fully inform me of the risks "I was only doing the best for my child based on what I read on ATS", my doctor should have informed me that it was all paranoid nonsense. Then comes the law suit ! and the poor doctor gets shafted for parents arrogant ignorance.

Sign the goddam paper and stop whinging. You are being allowed to be an idiot and place your childs health at risk and the state merely wants proof you knew what you were doing. In addition, the state will have a record of who is not vaccinated and when an outbreak occurs (CAUSING CHILDREN TO DIE) when the "herd" coverage is less than 80% they will know which families to avoid.

The MMR avoidance over here in the UK has caused mumps to increase and an increase in the number of deaf children. All based on the fearmongering of a doctor who took a flawed sample of 12 (YES ONLY 12) cases and extrapolated a link to autism. Investigation by Sunday Times journalist Brian Deer discovered that the lead author of the article, Andrew Wakefield, had multiple undeclared conflicts of interest, had manipulated evidence, and had broken other ethical codes. This is ATS and you have fallen for the very thing you all jump up and down about : conflicts of interest, manipulation of evidence DUH!

On 28 January 2010, the GMC panel gave its verdict on the facts of the case: Wakefield was found to have acted "dishonestly and irresponsibly" and to have acted with "callous disregard" for the children involved in his study, conducting unnecessary and invasive tests.

reply to post by westcoast

As of July of of this year, it is going to be required that all exemption forms be signed by a physician, stating that they have advised me of all the risks of NOT vaccinating. WHAT????!!!!

I really don't see why you are so upset over this. Sure, you have educated yourself and appear to understand some of the risks with certain vaccines. This doesn't mean all the people who will refuse them do. Having to make sure you CLEARLY understand the risks just makes sense to me.

This isn't socialism, this is common sense.

Half of the people, if not more, that are anti-vaccine have absolutely no knowledge or understanding at all. Alex Jones told them they are bad, so they don't want them.

some vaccines are good, some are a scam, some have side effects worse than the things they are treating. SOME vaccines can be safely avoided, others would put your child at risk if they don't get them.

But to allow uneducated people to make that decision for their child, without clearly understanding the risks, it's ridiculous.

And yes, I'm the type to avoid most of those vaccines, but thankfully I'm in Canada and we haven't gone as vaccine crazy as the US has. But I did my research and understand the risks. Most of the anti-vaccine people HAVEN'T.

This is the same as home schooling. OMG they are going to monitor home schooling and make sure I'm teaching my kids the right things, socialist monsters!

Yes, for 5% home schoolers this isn't needed. But then there's that huge 95% that might not neccesarily be teaching their kids actual FACTS and knowledge they need to live in the modern world. Making sure there is some type of standard just makes sense.

reply to post by malcr

Wakefield was found to have acted "dishonestly and irresponsibly" and to have acted with "callous disregard" for the children involved in his study, conducting unnecessary and invasive tests.

Yes but:

New independent research presented at the 2010 Pediatric Academic Societies Annual Meeting in Vancouver, Canada confirms unequivocally the findings of Dr Andrew Wakefield’s 1998 Lancet paper of an association between autism and serious gastrointestinal disease in children .

Source

I'm not backing either study honestly, but if you think all of this relates directly to Wakefield you are a fool.