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Originally posted by Syyth007
The John Bingham quote doesn't even really matter in this case anyway, as his mother was a natural born citizen. His parentS did not owe allegiance to any foreign sovereignty, just his father. He was born, in the United States of America, to a natural born citizen. I would love to see any type of proof that a child born of a natural born US citizen isn't a natural born citizen themselves. It's quite clear from the quote you posted that Obama does not meet those specific "diss"qualifications.
Originally posted by aptness
The “same argument” must be telling you what the law is, because I limited my posts to citations of the relevant and controlling Supreme Court case, and to the Department of State’s own explanation of the law.
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Once again, as other liberals have used that same argument, you are attempting to declare that Native Born is equal to Natural Born.
“Other liberals”? You have no credibility left in this discussion.
Everyone born in the United States is a natural born citizen and therefore eligible
relevant and controlling Supreme Court case
United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), was a United States Supreme Court decision that set an important legal precedent about the role of jus soli (birth in the United States) as a factor in determining a person's claim to United States citizenship. The citizenship status of a man born in the United States to Chinese parents was challenged[1] because of a law restricting Chinese immigration and prohibiting immigrants from China from becoming naturalized U.S. citizens,[2] but the Supreme Court ruled that the citizenship language in the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution could not be limited in its effect by an act of Congress.[3]
Originally posted by ShakaDoodle
reply to post by anumohi
Very good point for consideration!
That could mean he was deliberately looking for and
acquired a SS card with the sole intent of avoiding
military service. Or was it because he was trying to hide
something from his past, or perhaps both?
Originally posted by Syyth007
No, someone pointed out earlier, Barack's father did not owe allegiance to a foreign nation. I WAS WRONG. I'll admit it =P
FactCheck.org Clarifies Barack’s Citizenship, well with a spin of course.begin quote )"When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children…" (end quote
Originally posted by Syyth007
Ok, so now we've established that Barack's father did not owe allegiance to a foreign nation, he was under the jurisdiction of the United States while in this country, not to mention the simple fact his mother was a Natural Born Citizen. I was confused by the wording of the legalese (which I'm sure is the whole point in trying to use the Bingham quote when it has nothing to do with Obama's situation). His mother also was under jurisdiction of the United states when Obama was born, in the United States. NOW, either you can try to prove Barack SR owed an allegiance to a foreign nation, and was not under US jurisdiction when in the US, OR ya gotta find another reason to claim Obama is not a Natural Born citizen.
The contention in Wong Kim Ark wasArk’s citizenship, yes, but if you had read and understood the case you would understand why Wong Kim Ark settles the natural born citizenship question, at least for persons born in the United States.
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
See you cite Wong Kim, whom that case was to establish mere citizenship, not eligibility for POTUS.
I have no idea why you are saying this because I never said anything about naturalization. In fact, if there is one class of people who, by definition, are definitely not natural born citizens is naturalized citizens.
There is no law stating that a person who has been naturalized is a Natural Born Citizen.
Originally posted by ShakaDoodle
reply to post by anumohi
Something else that needs to be considered and addressed about the SSN numbers that obama has thefted was his ability to circumvent selective services from ever inducting him into the military, so he wouldn't have to serve and be placed at risk in any armed conflicts...which also makes him a coward
Very good point for consideration!
That could mean he was deliberately looking for and
acquired a SS card with the sole intent of avoiding
military service. Or was it because he was trying to hide
something from his past, or perhaps both?
Originally posted by aptness
The contention in Wong Kim Ark wasArk’s citizenship, yes, but if you had read and understood the case you would understand why Wong Kim Ark settles the natural born citizenship question, at least for persons born in the United States.
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
See you cite Wong Kim, whom that case was to establish mere citizenship, not eligibility for POTUS.
How did the Court ascertain Ark’s citizenship? It ruled the common law principle of birth right citizenship entitled Ark to citizenship from birth. And that common law principle, the Court explained, also said the children of aliens were natural born citizens.
Ark was a natural born citizen, even though the only contention in the case was whether he was a citizen or not.
It’s bizarre to claim the Court didn’t say a word about natural born citizenship when the term “natural born citizen” is used 50 times, and the meaning of the term, its roots in common law, and the implications of it in the Untied States, are explored at length.
I have no idea why you are saying this because I never said anything about naturalization. In fact, if there is one class of people who, by definition, are definitely not natural born citizens is naturalized citizens.
There is no law stating that a person who has been naturalized is a Natural Born Citizen.
No, it is you who doesn’t seem to get it.
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
You just don't get it. This is patently false.
It’s a requirement for the person, not the person’s parents!
Barack Sr was never a US Citizen and that is a requirement under Article II.
Originally posted by alphabetaone
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
Here is yet another reason why the "birthers" claims always seem so outrageous and baseless.
I want you to look at your argument structure and realize how ridiculous you sound:
"Obama cant be president, he was not born here, there is no birth certificate"
.."Yes he was, and here you go, here is the certificate"
..."Oh thanks for that! Too bad it's a fake!"
...."No it isn't, and here is why."
....."Where is the raised seal?!?!?! Huh huh huh??"
......"Now we've shown you the raised seal, is it still a fraud?"
......."Well, how can you explain the nude photographs?!?! Huh huh huh??"
........."What's that got to do with it?"
.........."So what!!! Is it out of the realm of possibility that one of our founding fathers spoke French??? huh huh huh?
I can't imagine why no one takes any of it seriously.... like boondock said a million people believe this nonsense, I take solace in knowing that the other 299 million do not.
According to whom? Point me to the Supreme Court cases, or US legislation making this distinction.
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
He would be native born not natural born.
Proponents that say Barack Obama is a natural born citizen point to the highlighted portion above concluding that is as much a citizen and the natural born child of a citizen are equivalents in that sentence. Thus, a child born in the United States of a foreigner domiciled in the United States is a natural born citizen child.
First, it can be unequivocally argued that the justices in their affirmative opinion above found Wong Kim Ark to be a 14th Amendment U.S. Citizen. There can be no dispute of this fact regardless of the soundness of the Justices’ arguments. It should also be noted that while domiciled in the U.S. and again in accordance with the 14th Amendment that “every citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States” was the additional argument that the opinion of the court was making.
The crux of the ruling though for our purposes is how it relates to the natural born citizen status of an individual and in the highlighted text above, the Justices clearly state: and his child (snip) f born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural-born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle. These twenty-seven words may ultimately decide the eligibility of Barack Obama to hold the Office of the President of the United States.
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by aptness
Once again, as other liberals have used that same argument, you are attempting to declare that Native Born is equal to Natural Born.
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by aptness
See you cite Wong Kim, whom that case was to establish mere citizenship, not eligibility for POTUS. Are you aware of the difference?
There is no law stating that a person who has been naturalized is a Natural Born Citizen.
If that were so then every person who came here from another country and goes through naturalization can be POTUS.
Granted, that is what liberals are trying to achieve.
Originally posted by spinalremain
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by aptness
Once again, as other liberals have used that same argument, you are attempting to declare that Native Born is equal to Natural Born.
See, here you are polarizing the argument which does nothing but expose your actual agenda. That being, the debate has nothing to do with your president's credibility to hold office as much as it does your contempt for Liberals. You're equating the interpretation of Natural Born citizen to one's political views.
I think birthers would do themselves a great service by showing some actual evidence to the perpetual claim that Obama has spent millions in hiding records. That would be a great starting point.
???