come on dis info chemtrail agents-post a picture of a chem trail before 1990--you cant!

I was watching an interesting program the other day about British spy planes in the 2nd world war. One of the biggest problems the pilots had was on occasion their planes would create contrails. I wasn't aware, but even propeller planes like the Spitfires could cause a contrails.

Originally posted by BadBoYeed
reply to post by adeclerk

 

first of all, i was not proven wrong on anything, i was merely saying that the topic could be put to rest if said pictures arose, according to the pre 1990 theory. (at the time ATS was ripe with debate on the matter)

the fact that there were persistent contrails since the beginning of jet propulsion does not prove that they are not spraying anything now.

This debate will never get put to rest, because believers don't require any evidence.

BTW, I like you avatar and background image.

Originally posted by BadBoYeed
reply to post by adeclerk

 

first of all, i was not proven wrong on anything, i was merely saying that the topic could be put to rest if said pictures arose, according to the pre 1990 theory. (at the time ATS was ripe with debate on the matter)

the fact that there were persistent contrails since the beginning of jet propulsion does not prove that they are not spraying anything now.

Sorry, but many many times photos of persistent contrails have been posted, from in the past, when chemtrailers proclaimed that such contrails did not exist. And then each time, they either ignore them, cry "shill", or then move into something else.

Persistent contrails having existed for decades also does not disprove the existence of leprechauns.

I still have not seen any chem-trail that persisted long after the plane was gone out of the picture!-A con trail is moisture in the air turning to steam which condenses back to moisture, invisable to naked eye, the way it was before the plane passed. Just like your car when you run it in the winter when the weather is freezing, you get a com-trail behind it which soon DISSAPEARS! A chem trail however lingers, then spreads out to join other trails they have sprayed to haze the whole sky. AS far a westerns go, some dummy said they were keeping it real for the western thats why there are no chem-trails in any--[I ALMOST PEED MY PANTS AT THAT ONE, THE B-MOVIE WESTERNS WERE REALLY KEEPING IT REAL- HA HA HA ]--fact is in todays chem-smeared skies, they cant film a sky and KEEP IT REAL! Just look at the halmark channels new westerns,
The dis-info agents are really working overtime, which is good, they show us who they are and the lies they tell.
WATCH THE SKIES PEOPLE, YOU WILL SEE-

reply to post by itsawild1


If only you had a grasp of the actual science, then you wouldn't be so far off.

Over and over again, the information is being offered, and there is no lack of sources online, as well.

WHY don't you read it, online, and TEACH YOURSELF for a change??

Originally posted by itsawild1
I still have not seen any chem-trail that persisted long after the plane was gone out of the picture!-A con trail is moisture in the air turning to steam which condenses back to moisture, invisable to naked eye, the way it was before the plane passed. Just like your car when you run it in the winter when the weather is freezing, you get a com-trail behind it which soon DISSAPEARS! A chem trail however lingers, then spreads out to join other trails they have sprayed to haze the whole sky. AS far a westerns go, some dummy said they were keeping it real for the western thats why there are no chem-trails in any--[I ALMOST PEED MY PANTS AT THAT ONE, THE B-MOVIE WESTERNS WERE REALLY KEEPING IT REAL- HA HA HA ]--fact is in todays chem-smeared skies, they cant film a sky and KEEP IT REAL! Just look at the halmark channels new westerns,
The dis-info agents are really working overtime, which is good, they show us who they are and the lies they tell.
WATCH THE SKIES PEOPLE, YOU WILL SEE-

Ahh, what would a message from a chemtrailer be with out the "dis-info agents" accusation. Funny though, when pressed about what exactly is the disinformation, it never seems to come forth.

When chemmies post things that are totally false, would you call this disinfo?

If you havent seen a contrail that was visible after the aircraft was gone, then you certainly are not paying much attention.

reply to post by itsawild1

-A con trail is moisture in the air turning to steam which condenses back to moisture, invisable to naked eye, the way it was before the plane passed

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried!

A contrail is formed by moisture in the jet fuel freezing and forming ice crystals at high altitude (typically above 20k feet), they are formed exactly the same way all cirrus clouds are formed, and both contrails and cirrus clouds will persist as long as the prevailing atmospheric conditions allow them to.

I'm not quite sure where you get that moisture will turn to steam at 20/30k feet.......it's quite chilly at that altitude you know!

reply to post by Argyll


Actually both of you are wrong!!

There are 2 types of common contrails.

Firstly "aerodynamic" contrails - these are caused when a sudden drop in pressure cools the air, and so the moisture condenses out. But when pressure is restored the moisture usually dissolves straight back into the air.

This is what the infamous KC-10 video is showing.

Also spectacular photos of a/c breaking the sound barrier with a "collar" of condensation, or at high angles of attack where there is a "bubble" of condensation on top if the wing (usually).

Contrails from the tips of wings, propellers and flaps also are due to this.

You can actually create a similar "contrail" in a bottle of soft drink - I've noticed that when I "crack" a new bottle (usually 1.25l, clear plastic so see through) there is a momentary condensation in the air gap at the top of the bottle - especially if it has been refrigerated. This is exactly the same principle - cracking the cap allows the pressure to suddenly drop, and moisture condenses out briefly.

The 2nd type of contrails comes from the production of water by BURNING fuel - not from the fuel in the water.

All hydrocarbons make water when you burn them - a hydrocarbon is just hydrogen and carbon, and when you burn hydrogen with oxygen the combustion product is water.

So there is a HUGE amount of water generated by burning any hydrocarbon fuel - be it petrol, diesel, natural gas or jet fuel. This is why old fashioned kerosene heaters generated a lot of condensation inside homes, and why modern gas heaters are usually vented outside.

The actual volume generated is about 1:1 - for every gallon of jet fuel you generate 1 gallon of water. But that gallon is blasted out the back of the jet engine mixed with a massive amount of air, so if it condenses it forms small droplets or ice-crystals - which is exactly what clouds are also made of of course.

Hope that helps

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul



My description may be a lot more simplified than yours........but where is it wrong?

ahh, reminds me of back in the day on the Carnicom website, when his message board was the busiest place for chemtrailers to post to each other.

Sometimes they would see an airliner coming into land with condensation trails either from the wingtips or wing surface, as it was coming into land in cool/humid conditions, and they would claim the jet forgot to turn off the sprayers.

reply to post by firepilot


Heh, I suppose they would think race cars are chemtrailing as well, since they too sometimes create wing tip vortices.

I would say there are 3 kinds of condensation in regards to this.

From the result of combustion and how it adds water as byproduct, into the very cold thin air.

From the pressure drop along the upper surface of an airfoil, with the resultant temperature drop.

Prandtl-Glauert Condensation Clouds as the aircraft its transonic and a shock wave starts to form.


The last two are totally involving pressure and temperature, since there is no heating involved or water being added

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

My description may be a lot more simplified than yours........but where is it wrong?

Sorry - wasn't trying to dis you but this bit isn't correct -

A contrail is formed by moisture in the jet fuel freezing and forming ice crystals at high altitude....

It's not the moisture in the jet fuel that freezes - it is the moisture CREATED by burning the jet fuel.

There is usually moisture in fuel - and it is a problem for engines, but it is not what causes contrails.

Cheers

Originally posted by Chadwickus
Heh, I suppose they would think race cars are chemtrailing as well, since they too sometimes create wing tip vortices.

Ah yes, like this image of the McLaren driven by David Coultard.
The race this pic was taken at was humid, and the rear wing tips are generating aforesaid CHEMTRAILS.
Oh man, everyone's in on the big conspiracy.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/115e41aaebc9.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by itsawild1


I like your aproach to this topic. I have tried to find any picture of the New York skyline from the 80's just surfing around, and the clouds in the sky don't look anything like todays, also I see no supposed 'contrails'. Hmm.check out this 80's pic, sorry I don't remember how to upload the pic, so I am just posting the link

www.ilovenewyork.cwhatch.com...

Originally posted by space cadet
reply to post by itsawild1

 

I like your aproach to this topic. I have tried to find any picture of the New York skyline from the 80's just surfing around, and the clouds in the sky don't look anything like todays,

There's certainly plenty of them - like this search on flikr

also I see no supposed 'contrails'.

Is that meaningful??

Hmm.check out this 80's pic, sorry I don't remember how to upload the pic, so I am just posting the link

www.ilovenewyork.cwhatch.com...

What about it??

reply to post by itsawild1


show me a "cellphone tower before 1990"

show me a "cellphone before 1990"

show me a "cellphone camera before 1990"

show me a "cloud or cloud based SITE where i would host such images?"

lol

Originally posted by itsawild1
So to the dis-info agents POST A PICTURE, NAME A MOVIE MADE BEFORE 1990 THAT HAS A CHEM-TRAILED SKY IN IT !!!!!!!!!!!!yOU CANT AND WE BELIEVERS ALL KNOW IT

contrailscience.com...

What now?

The believers have been fooled by the deceivers.

double post

So, it was proven that contrails persisted before 1990.

It then follows, was your whole premise then, the actual disinformation that contrails did not persist? Ever corrected that notion and admitted you were wrong?