Geo-engineering/Chemtrail forum - success or failure?

I seem to recall when various people lobbied for this forum it was to give due importance to "geo-engineering" - to take "chemtrails" out of the "skunkworks" forum for "highly speculative" theories.

Chemmies felt that chemtrails are not "highly speculative" of course.

so not this forum has been going a while - a month?? Just over - looks like the first post might have been April 13 - www.abovetopsecret.com...

There hasn't actually been much discussion about REAL geo-engineering of course - just the usual chemtrail stuff.

and of course there hasn't actually been any REAL evidence about chemtrails in that "stuff" - just the usual belief based "proof" and fruitless requests for decent evidence.

This "dedicated" forum does seem to have raised the "profile" of chemtrails here on ATS - many "new" people are asking the "same old" perfectly reasonable and rational questions about what is the evidence for chemtrails, and getting the "same old" irrational and baseless replies.

A couple of the "movers and shakers" who lobbied hard for this forum have disappeared entirely from ATS and a few new chemmies have appeared.

So what do you think - is the forum a success or a failure - and if it is either against what standard do you measure that?

Personally I think it is a complete failure - it was an attempt to use the scientific term "geo-engineering" to disguise the chemtrail theory - completely ignoring the fact that potential spraying in the atmosphere is only 1 of many geo-engineering techniques, and that others ARE actually being used whereas "chemtrails" are not.

And of course the chemtrail theory remains completley without evidence to support its existence, whether you call it geo-engineering or not, and so believers continue to take a pasting in the logic and rationality stakes.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I personally see this forum as a failure by ATS to deny ignorance - they should have created separate "geo-engineering" and "chemtrail" forums. Or better yet, put all "chemtrail" threads into the hoax bin and "geo-engineering" threads into skunk works/ some kind of future technology forum.

reply to post by adeclerk


Agreed.

How would one go about lobbying the ATS moderators to move it?

While weather modification and engineering EQ's are certainly being tested since a long time ago, they seem to be a failure so far. Scalar weapons still do not have the potential to move millions of tons of rock except with hundreds of years of progressive resonance which we would surely notice.
As to chemtrails, I think there is a simpler explanation - environmental pollution. I attribute the presence of weird elements in the atmosphere more to negligence than to an agenda of killing the majority on Earth. While that coud be certainly the fantasy of some Nazis and other elitists, it could be accomplished more by two existing forms of WMD's: biological warfare of genetically introduced microbes and simple nuclear devices.
Certainly, I feel worse on some days like when the ozone content is higher in otherwise polluted areas. Adding to that, agricultural spraying and the burned kerosene already adds to the unhealthy effects, but what I think we should be worrying about is the above two - diseases released in an experimental vein (which are also unpredictable) and nuclear testing and war, including the pollution from DU.
But ordinary folks willingly eat and drink already man death-causing agents such as aspartame and pesticides...
This is just a common problem with a fantastic explanation.
I can see where it is coming from though: some people add their spiritual insights to the existing pollution and teh magic money and power and theocratic institutions have over you, and the results - a little short-circuited - will be like theories like mass mind control (television does far more damage than HAARP) or chemtrails and geo-engineering...
It would be more conducive to the aim of protecting the average citizen from the ills of the post-modern society to face the mass spiritual problems as they are - by individual insights done via mediumism by trial and error - and to evaluate things by a scientific understanding (including some less than ofiicial channels.)

Originally posted by v0ice0freas0n
reply to post by adeclerk

 

Agreed.

How would one go about lobbying the ATS moderators to move it?

I'm not sure if there is any real incentive for ATS to make those changes, after all, continuing to allow the "chemtrail" hoax to perpetuate keeps people returning to the forums. Ever notice that for every "chemtrailer" who gets their claims debunked, there are 10 more who sign up and spout the same rhetoric?

It's not like if they removed the forum, they would end the arguments. And is a couple of months enough to decide if it failed or not? I think Geo-Engineering is for real and something worthy of discussion. The problem with the forum is not the forum itself, it's the chemtrail theory and those that blindly argue in favour of it (or blindly argue against it for that matter). Don't get me wrong, I'm still willing to calmly debate both sides of the theory, but most aren't so calm about it. It's not only this forum that encourages such behavior (I swear it's the internet!), but does that mean we should ask for those forums to be removed?

But I hear ya...

Like I have said time and time again...who gives a dam if it's real or no...because No-one, nor 2, nor 3 is going to do a dam thing about it..We deserve what we get done to use now for ruining this once great nation...To hell with us all.....as I don't see anything except nature trying to do anything about it...

we are a piss poor lot of human being to let these evil bastards rule over us the way we do, yes, that includes me too....

Originally posted by Caji316
Like I have said time and time again...who gives a dam if it's real or no...because No-one, nor 2, nor 3 is going to do a dam thing about it..We deserve what we get done to use now for ruining this once great nation...To hell with us all.....as I don't see anything except nature trying to do anything about it...

I believe you must give a damn, since you repeatedly place a single post in most new threads (usually stating your belief, or something about TPTB, etc) that expose the "chemtrail" hoax. How can nature do anything about ice particles in the sky?

Originally posted by MikeyBones
It's not like if they removed the forum, they would end the arguments. And is a couple of months enough to decide if it failed or not?

If you think it is then it is, and if not then not - it's going to be a personal decision.

I think Geo-Engineering is for real and something worthy of discussion.

I completely agree - and the forum "Fragile Earth" was mentioned during the discussion as an existing suitable place for geo-engineering, but the lobbyists wanted one of their own.

The problem with the forum is not the forum itself, it's the chemtrail theory and those that blindly argue in favour of it (or blindly argue against it for that matter). Don't get me wrong, I'm still willing to calmly debate both sides of the theory, but most aren't so calm about it. It's not only this forum that encourages such behavior (I swear it's the internet!), but does that mean we should ask for those forums to be removed?

But I hear ya...

Yeah I didn't actually ask for the forum to be removed or changed - others have mentinoed that & I understand why

reply to post by Caji316


I think there are far more tangible and founded fear and evil to combat; contrails are a distraction.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I think there should certainly be an open forum for discussion on the matter, but skunkworks seems to be a more appropriate place than geo-engineering for the flavor of rhetoric that clouds a more scientific perspective on the matter. Geo-engineering is certainly something to be discussed thoroughly and logically, free of fear-mongering and distracting, off-base assertions.

I thought for a long time it was a failure. It was the same believer group with hardly any variation, saying the same things, denying the same things......samo-samo. And there would be days when no one had contributed anything for hours. Seemed pretty dead at the time.
But recently, there have been more and new people commenting, and a much faster rate of posts. So, while not wildly successful, it is improving.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I've been overwhelmed by real life and haven't been posting to ats.

Instead of complaining, why don't you post some info on geoengineering

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


What other forums here on ATS do you think should be removed? Or is this the only one you have a problem with? I would suggest that if somebody does not like it that maybe they just go to forums they feel are worth their time. It is not as if people are forced to come to the geoengineering forum to read the posts or comment.

Originally posted by SaveTheWolves
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

What other forums here on ATS do you think should be removed? Or is this the only one you have a problem with? I would suggest that if somebody does not like it that maybe they just go to forums they feel are worth their time. It is not as if people are forced to come to the geoengineering forum to read the posts or comment.

Where did he say that he wanted it removed? I was the one who suggested that, have you read the other posts in the thread?

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
Yeah I didn't actually ask for the forum to be removed or changed - others have mentinoed that & I understand why

I don't necessarily have a problem with the existence of the forum, it's just disappointing to me that the "chemtrail" aspect of this forum promotes so much ignorance of basic science and meteorology (not to mention psychology, ever notice how "chemtrailers" exhibit confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance?).

IMO this is just another attempt to discredit the topic.

I see no problem with it being here. If a particular member has a problem with it I suggest he/she reads other threads or goes to another forum, instead of wanting to re-shape the world into his own image.

I mean really, WHAT is the problem?

reply to post by adeclerk

it's just disappointing to me that the "chemtrail" aspect of this forum promotes so much ignorance of basic science and meteorology (not to mention psychology, ever notice how "chemtrailers" exhibit confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance?).

Well that is your opinion. And you have a right to your opinion just as others have a right to their opinions. I have never seen any proof that chemtrails are always just contrails.

It's like when you go to a restaurant...you look at the menu and there are things you like and things you don't like. So you order what you like and stay away from the stuff you don't like. But that does not mean that because you don't like something it should come off the menu because there will be other who happen to love it!

Originally posted by wcitizen
IMO this is just another attempt to discredit the topic.

I see no problem with it being here. If a particular member has a problem with it I suggest he/she reads other threads or goes to another forum, instead of wanting to re-shape the world into his own image.

I mean really, WHAT is the problem?

edit on 18-5-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

The main issues (which have been stated over and over and over again) are that "chemtrailers" willfully deny basic facts, the basic concepts in science and the science of meteorology. All of this denial is for what? A belief that "chemtrailers" take on faith alone?

Because of the massive amounts of disinfo out there (rense, educate-yourself.org, etc), chemmies continue to come to this forum and post the same rhetoric that has been debunked again and again. They seem to be able to read "chemtrail" websites, but lose the ability to read when a link that is contrary to their preconceived notion is posted.

The most daft claim of the believers is that "I know what I'm seeing/believe my eyes", which (if it were true), by their logic would mean that "It looks like a contrail, it behaves like a contrail, it only exists in conditions that allow contrails to form, therefore it is a contrail." But alas, they don't understand the fallacy in their logic (cognitive dissonance much?) and continue to insist that the behavior of contrails has changed since they first heard of "chemtrails" (confirmation bias).

One day the gross example of ignorance that is the "chemtrail" hoax will finally be denied!


(but probably not, if someone is taking the "chemtrail" hoax on faith, what can you do to change their "belief")

Originally posted by SaveTheWolves
It's like when you go to a restaurant...you look at the menu and there are things you like and things you don't like. So you order what you like and stay away from the stuff you don't like. But that does not mean that because you don't like something it should come off the menu because there will be other who happen to love it!

The problem is more like this:
"Chemtrails" are all speculation and faith, they should have a forum that is separate from the Geo-Engineering forum. Even though Geo-Engineering is mostly just speculation right now, it deserves a forum for valid discussion of what might be happening with it in the future. "Chemtrailing" =/= Geo-Engineering.