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1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good.
3. A perfectly good being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being, who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good being, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).
: "Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?"
1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good.
3. A perfectly good being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being, who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good being, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).
"Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?"
The last philosophical dimma is remained a large point of contention against Theists for many thousands of years.
Originally posted by SaveTheWolves
reply to post by EternalThought
One's religion could be their philosophy.
I have to stop you right there, and get your philosophy in check. The assumption is according to Christians, is that we exist because of god. This would make God existence. Question is, is does existence exist?.Answer would be rightfully so.
Let's assume that God exists
We arn't all born into sin despite what your prophet Jesus claims. (or the men writing the bible claim)
Original sin is nonsense. If there is no evil, there is no Devil, and no need for the hellfire dogma. It's evil.
That's why i protest your beliefs. It's an insult to human intelligence to say we NEED a dictator, or a prophet like Jesus in order to be good to one another.
Besides, if we believe your Jesus nonsense, we have to believe that God waited a mimimum of 100,000 years of human evolution before he decides to introduce "a savior"
I really don't think you believe in this, i think you just WANT to believe in it, and it's nice when other people agree with you and preach the message of Christ.
This need, this desire to be told what to do, this consideration of humans as naturally evil is incredibly slavish and servile.
Jesus can't absolve your personal responsibility (Vicarious Redemption) you are responsible for your own actions
How do you know this for a fact? You don't... its a theory which has to do with Karma.
lol, so you just said if theres no evil....blah blah...then called something evil.... you confuse me sometimes. I also said nothing about hellfire anything... thats more garbage from our christian friends.
You protest everyones beliefs so think whatever you like... I said nothing about a dictator nor did i say we need Jesus for anything. You really don't read my posts do you?
.and who is this "we"...how many people are sitting behind your screen
More assumptions...geez
I said evil doesn't exist....yet again, you don't read my posts
Really man you're starting to get annoying.... You don't read anything i post...so whats the point of replying to me? Just for the sake of arguement?
Karma is nonsense, there's no system that punishes bad actions. If you're a bad person, other people's thoughts and judgement of you should be your prison. And you don't know Karma exists for a fact, but who's the one saying it does?
Again, you'll just claim that i can't prove Karma doesn't exist, which is a cunning argument.
You believe in God, right? - So you believe in true good? So that must have an oppposite
I don't protest belief, i challenge belief, there's a difference, I do read, i respond to your points.
That's why i protest your beliefs. It's an insult to human intelligence to say we NEED a dictator, or a prophet like Jesus in order to be good to one another.
I'm talking about everyone, "are WE expected to believe?". I'm assuming that that my atheist rationalists are as as skeptical as me. I'm allowed to use "we" if i chose. I was referring to my agnostic atheist rationalists. Say whatever you will about that.
That's a cunning little smiley there. Fact is - I did say i THINK, and yes it was an assumption. But it wasn't an assumption regarding God. I didn't pass it off as truth, i said I THINK.
Blah blah blah, evil doesn't exist but man natural instinct isn't "good" (slavery, rape, theiving) Pretty much our perceptions of "evil" - So which is it? Is man born into Sin? or is he not?
If you don't believe in evil, then Charles Manson was not evil. right? And your God made him? Cool.
Meh, you said you believed in Christ, i'm arguing the idiotic dogma of Christ (haha i know i can't prove it wrong) Apologies if you only adhere to some of the preaching of Christ, It can be for the benefit of Christians.
I'm only responding politely - Try not to get butthurt my Christ-loving friend.
Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Theophorus
LOL, don't let his word play confuse our lack of knowledge regarding the universe (or reality)
Just because we exist in a reality, it's still an assumption to state it was "made" by a deity.
You don't know how it works, scientist's don't know how it works, it could have a beginning, it could have no beginning, it could be infinite, it could be not.
Truth is, you're just as naive as us Atheists.edit on 7/5/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Lionhearte
Because man's basis for what is right, what is love, and what is pure, clearly dictates what God should be, amirite?
Originally posted by Cinquain
Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Theophorus
LOL, don't let his word play confuse our lack of knowledge regarding the universe (or reality)
Just because we exist in a reality, it's still an assumption to state it was "made" by a deity.
You don't know how it works, scientist's don't know how it works, it could have a beginning, it could have no beginning, it could be infinite, it could be not.
Truth is, you're just as naive as us Atheists.edit on 7/5/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)
Yeah, I'll give you a star and agree with that. The thing that irks me about religion is the fervency with which they "know". There's no room for questioning or looking for answers. God created all and that's that, period end of sentence. It's a very destructive and dangerous mindset, though I am sure it's comforting.