9/11 Family Invited To Presidential Ground Zero Visit Snubs Obama

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by KicknAndScreamin
So am I gonna believe them in this case? Not a snowballs chance in hell.

Exactly why I do not see putting our soldiers lives in even more danger than they are already in just so some people can call something a fake instead of saying it will be a fake. It just makes no sense to me at all.

We never called the huge amounts of undeniable evidence that Iraq had WMDs, Ties to Alqaeda and that they were buying yellowcake uranium fakes, we didn't question it. We put our troops in extreme danger because of all of this evidence and....WOW none of that was true either. Another reason why I don't believe ANYTHING they have to say

Please nobody take offense (I sincerely respect everyone's opinion and am grateful for them because they're helping me piece this all together).

But I must be honest- I am exhausted with hearing the excuse we will not be shown the photos/footage/evidence because we would not believe it anyways.

May we please be the judge of that ourselves? I assure you, I would believe it if offered and it was legit.

It's not just 'fringe lunatics' or 'extremists' or 'America/Obama Haters' who are requesting it.

Patriotic citizens, families of 9/11 victims, those seeking closure, those who were willing to believe but then became skeptical due to the outrageous storyline, etc., are asking for it, too.

Thanks. That's all I ask. I would like to be the judge of it myself instead of people telling me what I would do.

If there are pics they will leak out. I remember when I was at a certain base that Daniel Pearl beheading videos (among other things) made their way around SIPRNet via mass e-mails.

Originally posted by Myendica
What? put them in danger? you have no proof of that..

MORE danger. I said MORE danger. You get the difference, right? Proof? Want it from me or the military?

maybe if we brought them all home already, we wouldnt need this debate of proof of OBLs death...

If frogs had wings they would not bump their ass but I live in reality where ifs and wishes do not play a real role.

Releasing pics of how horrible we treated prisoners didnt get them in too much more trouble did it?

Yes, yes it did. Ever watch the Nick Berg beheading tape where they blame Abu Graihb?
Maybe I have been hearing bad stats. Let's ask Mrs. Berg.

so why pictures of the Moth........er we've been looking for for 10 years going to put them in danger?

MORE DANGER. MORE DANGER. MORE. MORE. MORE.

its not like the world didnt think we'd finally get him, if we did.. Please... you show the proof because we spend billions and trillions of dollers to do it.. least you can do is show us..

Now I am confused. Proof of what? That we were not trying to get him? I know we were trying to get him.


FOREALS

reply to post by AshleyD


Sorry didn't mean to speak for anybody. Just stating I personally have no faith or trust in the administration. I'll leave it at that and argue the point no more.

reply to post by Sinnthia


I'm sorry, I thought your post was absurd.. I was typing too fast? mORE danger, danger.. putting in danger.. all = danger.. we spent trillions of dollers in last 10 years looking for OBL.. least they can do is show us proof hes dead... is that so hard to understand? choping up my quote and replying to each part doesnt make you wittier or smarter.. your statement is BOGUS!!! it wont put us in MORE DANGER... if it would have, we would have stopped looking for him...


Tell ya what.. give me trillions of dollers and I'll find GOD for ya.. but when I do, I won't show you GOD.. just tell you how the conversation went


GROW UP

Originally posted by drwizardphd
Releasing the photos will not put the soldiers in more danger. I think that is a cop-out argument being used by officials as an excuse not to release the photos. It is widely accepted that Osama has been killed in the international media, and that alone will be enough to elicit any sort of terrorist reactions that would be expected.

So you have never seen the way images are used in war to propagandize? I am not sure this is the place to go over that but I can take your opinion. I have the military telling us that they will cause danger. You say differently. I just need a reason to trust you over them. Not a reason to NOT trust them.

However, the vast majority of the people crying for the pictures will believe that they were photoshopped or manipulated or outright fabrications. Just look at how many of these same people handled the birth certificate. The simple fact is there are die-hard Obama opponents who will believe anything and everything in order to discredit the man.

Exactly. Many of them already said in other threads here they will not believe them but still want to see them. I have not figured out the logic yet. Even I know better than to trust a photo and if they were going to fake one, it could have been ready long long long ago. A photo will not convince me either. You know what would? Seeing Osama again. If he is with Elvis it does not count.

That being said, I really want to see the photographs. I don't see any logical reason not to release them, as photos of the raid have already been leaked. Reluctance to release the evidence will only result in needless speculation and warranted suspicion. There are rational people out there who do not hate everything about Obama, such as myself, who are skeptical of the OBL situation simply because of the subversive tactics being used by this administration (burial at sea, refusal to release evidence, constantly changing official story).

I guess I am just gullible enough to think that if even one soldier can skip a chance to die because one person is less pissed off at us then that is better than satisfying a few armchair soldiers. Just me but real lives are at stake. It is not COD here. Maybe if you were on the front lines and you were begging for them, it might make a little more sense.

Originally posted by KicknAndScreamin

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by KicknAndScreamin
So am I gonna believe them in this case? Not a snowballs chance in hell.

Exactly why I do not see putting our soldiers lives in even more danger than they are already in just so some people can call something a fake instead of saying it will be a fake. It just makes no sense to me at all.

We never called the huge amounts of undeniable evidence that Iraq had WMDs, Ties to Alqaeda and that they were buying yellowcake uranium fakes, we didn't question it. We put our troops in extreme danger because of all of this evidence and....WOW none of that was true either. Another reason why I don't believe ANYTHING they have to say

That makes no sense. Everyone questioned that. Ever heard of Valery Plame? It took a year and half for that war to start because Bush had to try so hard to win a little more than half the people over with it. There were always questions. None of that is an excuse. Would you tell a family that their husband, son, father had to die because...well...other people died for other stuff anyway. Long as you get your pictures?

Originally posted by Sinnthia

I guess I am just gullible enough to think that if even one soldier can skip a chance to die because one person is less pissed off at us then that is better than satisfying a few armchair soldiers. Just me but real lives are at stake. It is not COD here. Maybe if you were on the front lines and you were begging for them, it might make a little more sense.

THEY ARE SOLDIERS!!! do you know what the job description is for a Soldier? its we throw you into hell and hope you come out breathing...

reply to post by Sinnthia


it does not matter what we do they want us all dead!

dead
dead
dead

we are not muslim thus infidels unbelievers when there is no america or americans thats when they will stop

geez

Is this really what the apologists who say a photo would endanger troops think goes through a terrorist's mind?

"By golly, those darned US occupiers... They've destroyed my country, killed my family and friends, stolen our resources and brought opium production to a record high... but c'est la vie.. Oh wait, they've released a photo of Osama bin Laden's body? NOW THEY MUST DIE."

Pics or it didn't happen.

Originally posted by Myendica
THEY ARE SOLDIERS!!! do you know what the job description is for a Soldier? its we throw you into hell and hope you come out breathing...

So why not turn the heat up on them just to make you happy. Comfy chair?

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

it does not matter what we do they want us all dead!

dead
dead
dead

we are not muslim thus infidels unbelievers when there is no america or americans thats when they will stop

geez

Really? You under heavy gunfire over there? I have never been attacked by a terrorist of any kind or a Muslim. Have you?

reply to post by JohnnyTHSeed


No, they USE that picture as a tool. The same way we used images of 9/11 over and over and over and over and over again. You would think more people on ATS would be familiar with programming. There are still lots of people that do not want to kill us. Unfortunately, that number is shrinking. This piture will be a great tool in that toolbox of propoganda to whip up the masses. Watch the buildings go down over and over, lets go get them. Watch the buildings go down, dont you hate them! Watch the buildings go down, can I attack Iraq? Watch the buildings go down. Attack anything, just go!!!!!

No, look what those infidels did to our great martar? Look at what they did. Go kill Americans. Look at the picture, go kill Americans.

reply to post by Sinnthia


have you?

we are not talking about over there its about what has come to the streets here

you think your all safe and sound now? that is laughable.

i know 3000+ americans who went to work one day and never came home.

those soldiers can fight back pretty sure most americans will run to mommy and daddy to save them but fat chance.

Originally posted by Sinnthia

So Obama was gonna let the pictures out.
The military asked him not to.
He went with them.
You blame him and say screw them?

Am I following?

As regards the above I would like to point you in this direction.

www.whitehouse.gov...

In particular these answers to questions relevant to your claim.

Q So was he, in the time period you're discussing, the moment he had the photos until now that we know the answer, was he grappling with this at all? Or was his stance clear and he was just gathering other opinions?
MR. CARNEY: Well, I don’t know about the evolution of his decision-making process. When I’ve heard him discuss it, he held this opinion very firmly. And he has held that opinion very firmly. But this is a very short period of time. Obviously he wanted to hear the opinions of others, but he was very clear about his view on this. And obviously his decision is categorical.

Q Well, that I understand, but I’m saying his comment was there was no question that a photograph would be released -- obviously that was wrong.
MR. CARNEY: Well, look, the thing is the President made this decision. He consulted members of his national security team. There’s reasonable arguments to be made. The President felt very strongly and made the decision he made.

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by leemachino
I commend the family for standing their ground. They have every right to ask for evidence/proof.

I have every right to ask for a bazillion dollars too.
We all have the right to ask for stuff.
I have the right to ask if I can drive 100 MPH in a school zone.
I hae the right to ask.
I just find it a little more than selfish. To think more Americans might die due to these pictures, and knowing how people doubt photos anyway, and they would still demand them be released? Sounds like spoiled children with no concern for anything but their tinfoil hat.

That family lost a loved one. How can you compare the right to "ask for a bazillion dollars" to their right to demand proof of the suspects death? Its a bad comparison. I personally have no desire to see the photo, but I also can't take any politician's word for it. Families of the 9/11 victims' deserve more than "we got him and dumped his body in the sea".

Americans are in more danger now just because of the announcement of his death.
Do you think the Obama administration should have kept his killing a secret, to "protect" us?

Its selfish to only think of American deaths. What about all the civilian "collateral damage" deaths caused by American bombs dropped on people who don't even know 9/11 happened?

Yes, anyone who questions the government story must wear a tinfoil hat. They've always been truthful and forthcoming.

If we weren't over there killing people there would be less danger of Americans getting killed. "That's the world we live in." Our government has had a big hand in shaping that world.

American foreign policy has been a disaster for decades. Its time to end the wars, stop starting new ones and bring the soldiers home. I have a brother who is in Iraq so I have put some thought into how I feel and have more to lose than some of the people who just want to see a dead guy's photo.

Well the COD reference is real cute, much like the President of the U.S. treating the country like children who're easily fooled with tricks and aren't adult enough to be shown gory photographs, even if it means bringing forth proof to end a ten year chapter in our history.

One photograph might be easily claimed to be fake, but two of the same subject (especially if taken from differing angles) is much more difficult to debunk as fake, if genuinely taken under proper conditions, which would have been done if any members of that team have ever attended at least one training session of SSE.

Suggesting that the photos aren't being released for the safety of U.S. military personnel and civilians is a valid one, but it has not been the only reason presented to us for not doing so - It has been one of a few seperate excuses, depending on which White House press conference you watch. If this were to be the case, than they may very well have Nukes in place in the U.S., all the whole patiently standing by with detonaters in hand like time is on their side or something.

That's not the al qaeda I know, the al qaeda I have come to know likes to do battle while wearing suicide vests and frequently make blunders that lead to their faces being blown off rather than making a kill, and that's not even on U.S. soil, but theirs. Yes.

President Obama said, "It is important for us to make sure that very graphic photos of someone who was shot in the head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence or as a propaganda tool that's not who we are."

And just yesterday I tuned into CNN, and right there on the screen were two uncensored photographs of two other men shot dead in the head, in a pool of blood in the same compound released by the White House. So there's one huge contradiction.

I'm not going to comment on whether or not I think Osama was actually killed, but I think the majority of the world that wants to see photographic proof just wants to be able to end this whole mess and move on, but we can't because this is being held over our heads like it's a game - At least President Bush and his Administration was man enough to own up to our actions, and release photographic proof of killed HVTs, which certainly has not left room for conspiracy (Have not see any regarding Uday and Husay, have we?).

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by UcDat
Man you people catch on fast no wonder they got to attack you conspiracy 'nuts' 'truthers' and 'birthers' all day long heck they even got to make up words to profile you so people like Sinn can have something to call ya. Cant have you guys be respected then the sheeple might just start waking up...

Oh how the sword of irony doth cut a great swath.
I do not recall calling anyone any names in this thread and I used to be a truther and had no problem with the title. I have asked "birthers" many times what else I should call a group of people that deny Obama was born in Kenya.

Hey the only time I denied that was when you convinced me the first BC wasnt a conclusive fake. But glad your on our side still

Originally posted by Sinnthia
No one has responded. But here? You whip out sheeple after that little speech? Did I call anyone a deather? That is the new one you know.

Yeh it was a bit low but fair play since you tend to use it a lot even on your good buds like me

Originally posted by Sinnthia
These people that say "Show me the pic or I don't believe it" have already been labled "deathers" by the MSM. You do not like the moniker, you better make your own flag real fast and wave it higher than anyone.

But maybe you can help me out with the topic.

lol dont worry you guys are winning why you think they are so scared

check my sig for the real truth.

edit on 5-5-2011 by UcDat because: (no reason given)

That is such an odd analogy. A woman must only really fight off a rapist if that rapist has a good point huh? Why else wouyld she fight so hard?

Anyway....

Can you tell me what good would come of releasing the pictures? Making 9/11 victims feel good is not going to cut it.

edit on 5/5/11 by Sinnthia because: (no reason given)

sorry not following you here? Who said anything about needing a good point to fight off a rapist? If one look at you funny you kick that sucker in the nuts then send him our way for the finisher.
As for the pic i dont care if they release it or not but I dont blame these guys for wanting it. They do deserve closure so to do all the Americans footing the bill. But i dont think they have one and they know better than to try and pass another fake.

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by KicknAndScreamin

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by KicknAndScreamin
So am I gonna believe them in this case? Not a snowballs chance in hell.

Exactly why I do not see putting our soldiers lives in even more danger than they are already in just so some people can call something a fake instead of saying it will be a fake. It just makes no sense to me at all.

We never called the huge amounts of undeniable evidence that Iraq had WMDs, Ties to Alqaeda and that they were buying yellowcake uranium fakes, we didn't question it. We put our troops in extreme danger because of all of this evidence and....WOW none of that was true either. Another reason why I don't believe ANYTHING they have to say

That makes no sense. Everyone questioned that. Ever heard of Valery Plame? It took a year and half for that war to start because Bush had to try so hard to win a little more than half the people over with it. There were always questions. None of that is an excuse. Would you tell a family that their husband, son, father had to die because...well...other people died for other stuff anyway. Long as you get your pictures?

Like I said, I don't care to see the pictures, Don't want to. I'm not asking for evidence because they have proven that if they don't have it, they'll manufacture it. So showing it to me is pointless. I agree that some elements would use the pictures solely for a reason to react as in the case of Nick Berg. I'm not arguing that fact. And yeah I've heard of Valery Plame. The whole issue was not brought to light untill after the invasion of Iraq and wasn't under Public scrutiney and never would have gotten any measurable media coverage if Libby didn't throw her under the bus to get even with her hubby.

Originally posted by Sek82
One photograph might be easily claimed to be fake, but two of the same subject (especially if taken from differing angles) is much more difficult to debunk as fake, if genuinely taken under proper conditions, which would have been done if any members of that team have ever attended at least one training session of SSE.

Oh if only they took two pictures on the moon instead of just that one. That would have ended that debate for good huh?
If only there had been video of Kennedy being shot. That would put that to rest huh?
Who are you trying to kid? You would call one photo fake but not two? I am sorry but like I said, I would not believe the pic anyway. Pics are too easy to fake. Why you think two would work better is beyond me.

It seems really simple. There are still people that believe the Earth is flat. I am pretty sure we have more than two pictures that prove otherwise but still they go on. So, why should our soldiers be in more danger than they already are?

Suggesting that the photos aren't being released for the safety of U.S. military personnel and civilians is a valid one, but it has not been the only reason presented to us for not doing so - It has been one of a few seperate excuses, depending on which White House press conference you watch.

Don't care. That is the only one that has to be valid for me. Other contradictory excused do not make our men and women safer. Neither does attempting to appease a few people that mostly already decided the whole thing is fake no matter what they see.

Sorry but there is no photograph on the planet that could get me to tell some family they lost a loved one because I just really had to see it.