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America Spoken of In Revelations

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posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 02:17 AM
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Revelations 18: 1-9

And after these things, I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the Earth was lightened with his glory.

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is Fallen! And is become the habitation of Devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. (America has fallen, morals decaying, the nation now a home of sins and demons. The bird reference is a subtle way of pointing out the symbol America goes byÖthe Eagle.)

For ALL NATIONS have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the ABUNDANCE of her delicacies. (America is the richest nation, the nation that wants for nothing and is the envy of all. It is the ability to trade and deal with us that determines another countryís wealth. Cuba, IraqÖlook at what they have become because we wont trade with them. We are the whore of Babylon, our country has lured every leader (Blair, Putin, ect..) to be a friend of ours just to partake of our riches. This much is apparent to all.)

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and god hath remembered her iniquities. (This tells us not to follow our government, not to cave in and follow our leaders down this path of evil. I believe it tells us to leave, but for those of us who cannot, we must remain clean. An example of these plagues that befall the unclean of this nation would be AIDs. Those who live the opulent life that America rewards people for wanting will be stricken with plagues of their own. In other words: Be wary, and keep the moral high ground at all times.)

Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill her to double. (This means, I believe, that we must give our country grief and sorrow the same way she has given us grief and sorrow. That we must protest, and fight, and battle, and raise up against her every time she raises up against us. That for every war our country instigates, we must create a war of our own against her. The million man march, anti-war protestsÖthese are the best examples I can give.)

How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. (This states the sad truth that our country does not care about other countries and lives ìhigh on the hogî so to speak, conveniently forgetting that we are ignoring the pain of the third world nations that cry for our help. Our nation glorifies itself and calls itself great, it calls itself a nation of god, under god, for god, and it acts like the agent of the devil. So, since ìsheî does not experience the sorrow and pain of these other nations, then the bible says to give her pain and sorrow. In a way, this validates every protest or march the activists have done so far, and somewhat frighteningly, might also validate terrorist attacks against America, although you would not catch me doing such a thing.)

Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.(The ìone dayî quote is not to be taken seriously. Especially since a day in heaven is nearly a year or two on earth, according to the apocryphal studies. However, think about what the past two years have been like. 9/11, the Columbia disaster, two nightclub disasters, Anthrax scares galore, and now a horrible war on the horizon. We are a nation under siege, a nation in mourning, a nation who is at the bottom of a pit of sorrow. America is being judged by god.)

And the kings of earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning. (The countries that benefit from their close association with us like England, for instance, will cry for us and mourn for usÖsuch as the mourning after 9/11, because our collapsed economy will also affect their economy as well.)

Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas the great city of Babylon, that mighty city for one hour is thy judgment come. (For fear of being attacked the same way, many countries will ìstand afarî from us, meaning they will distance themselves from us and refuse to help us or join us in our battles. This much is incredibly obvious. America will be judged.)




posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 02:22 AM
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This Topic is in the wrong Forum.

ChitChat or Relious Forum would be more apropriate.

Looks interesting but I'll read it when it's moved.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 02:36 AM
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You'll have to forgive me for that, I am new to the Forum. (well, truth be told, I once posted here two years ago as "Machina" but have since lost my password)

This article was written by me quite awhile ago. Though I feel it still holds up, especially with what is happening now.

Old Babylon V.S. New



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 03:05 AM
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The troops would cross the Euphrates

Revelation 16
12
The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East.

my guess is that this is the 200 million army that the bible talks about. I'm assuming that it will be an Asian army, i.e China and NK.

The Mark of the Beast of course.

Revelation 13:
16
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
National ID cards, Social Security numbers??????


Revelation 11:9-10
The world would be able to simultaneously witness events. This one is simple, we have live satellite broadcasts and the internet which reaches every corner of the earth, almost.

Revelation 11
9
For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial.
10
The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

Modern Warfare.

The Bible foreshadowed modern warfare
Revelation 8
7
The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.
8
The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood,
9
a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
10
The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water--
11
the name of the star is Wormwood.[1] A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.

My guess is that this is definitely nukes, and or biological or chemical weapons, how it poisons the water. With the fire from the sky, I'm assuming it's talking about ICBM's how they have that bright streak of light after them

It's all there my friends. I foresee this war as something more than oil. No one sends an entire army plus, to conquer Iraq, it's simply a waste of resources, no, this will definitely lead to something bigger and have unforseen consequences. Even if you dont believe in the bible, or God, or whatever. You can use common sense, and have a questionable mindset to realize that something else is gonna go down than what meets the eye.

If you dont believe in the Bible, that's cool. I strongly recommend reading Revelations regardless. It is an awesome story, lot's of good story's in that book.

[Edited on 26-3-2003 by Grommer]



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 03:10 AM
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Revelation 1:3
Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 03:26 AM
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I see Grommer knows his stuff. Yes, you are correct, Revelations is an astonishing read, especially if you are the type that likes to analyze and break things down. I agree with your interpretations, and I think you are right about the Mark of the beast.

When I first heard about the Office of Homeland Security, I knew something along the lines of national ID cards would follow. As a matter of fact, I distinctly remember a webpage which reported that congress was working on passing legislation to issue every natural born U.S. Citizen an ID card that would give them "Benefits"

These benefits were listed, and one of them was the ability to quickly and efficiently pass through security checkpoints at airlines.

Makes you think, doesn't it?

Especially since those who do not receive the mark are, according to the bible, "unable to buy or sell goods."



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 03:27 AM
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Revelation 16:12
And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Revelation 16:13
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Revelation 16:14
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Revelation 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed [is] he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Revelation 16:16
And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Revelation 16:17
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Revelation 16:18
And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, [and] so great.

Revelation 16:19
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Revelation 16:20
And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

Revelation 16:21
And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, [every stone] about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Revelation 17:1
And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

Revelation 17:2
With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Revelation 17:3
So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Revelation 17:4
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Revelation 17:5
And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Revelation 17:6
And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Revelation 17:7
And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 17:9
And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Revelation 17:10
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Revelation 17:11
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Revelation 17:12
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Revelation 17:13
These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

Revelation 17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 03:31 AM
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that's the problem with the mark my friend, is you wont be able to live life. The sad fact is that if you dont have the mark, you wont be able to buy food, or any necessity's of life. Like what Lysergic says, I dont think that it will happen in 1 - 10 years. Although I feel I will see it in my lifetime. America is the new Babylon, plain and simple.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 03:43 AM
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Originally posted by Grommer
America is the new Babylon, plain and simple.


Yes, it is as plain as the nose on my face. What shocks me is that most bible scholars don't pick up on this. I am American Born, and although I love the idea of America (Every man is created equal and Freedom to all) I have to admit that after I dug deeper then what my College textbooks would allow, I saw some horrible truths.

A Country that claims to be free and the home of equality was "enslaving" men of color long after the rest of the civilized world abandoned such a practice. Not to mention that our Gross National Product is among the highest in the world, yet the two institutions that usually benefit most from a prosperous society (Health care and Education) are among some of America's worst qualities.

I see you are from Germany. I have to tell you that I greatly respect the woman your leaders kicked out of office because she compared Bush to Hitler. I forget the woman's name, but she spoke the truth...and your people unfortunately had to kick her out to save face with the Americans.

Both drop propaganda-laden pamphlets, both conquered nations in order to preserve their nation and overlook the fact that their economy was crumbling. Both cared little for their hungry, under=appreciated people and instead lusted for the power and fear that war brings.

People ask me, "is the war about oil?"

I always tell them the same thing:

"It's about making sure America is the only Super power in the world...and about securing the safety and continued dominance of Israel in the Middle East".



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 03:54 AM
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I'm actually have dual citizenship with the US and Germany. As for the lady that made that particular comment, I have to be honest that I dont remember as it wasnt made that big of a deal here. I believe it was made quite a big deal WITHIN the government, but I dont recall seeing much on it. I totally agree that they made a fuss of it to save face with the US. People will choose what they want to see, we can only point out the truth for them, and try not to be judgemental.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 07:43 AM
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Looking back along the historical trail of Nebuchadnezzarís great image, we find ourselves at a time after the Feet, and before the toes.

History has already seen the Babylonian Empire come and go, as did the Medo-Persian, Grecian, Roman and Moslem Empires. God described each of these Empires with such precision in the prophecy that there is no doubt about who they were and how each of them played their part in the drama that centered on the history of the Jews.

But itís in the manifestation of the Toes Kingdom that God gets very specific in His description and placement of the territory that will make up this final kingdom.

And itís during the time of this final kingdom on that land that Godís ìstone kingdomî will fall upon the feet kingdom (The Moslem Empire) and destroy all the kingdoms that had grown on that land. So the land mass that is slated for destruction is the Middle East. Now that hasnít happened yet.

In fact, God describes the area where the conflict will take place perfectly in Revelation. Open your Bibles to Revelation 13.

There are three things being described here. The ìBeastî (the government), the ìheadsî (spirits behind the government, i.e. Prince of Persia, and Prince of Grecia) and the ìhornsî (the human rulers of those places that make up the government).

Verse 2: the government that he saw was like a leopard ñ Grecia, swift in itís movement, standing on itís feet, that were as the feet of a bear ñ Medo-Persia, with the mouth of a lion ñ Babylon, and the dragon ñ Satan, gave him his power, his seat and his great authority.

So this government, or Antichrist Kingdom, will be located or standing in the Old Medo-Persian Empire, have itís capital at Babylon, be very swift moving, and will be speaking for and have the power of Satan.

The spiritual head of this Kingdom will be a beast from out of the pit that shall arise, at the time, and go into perdition, or evil deeds.

The Angel escorting John around told him that this beast ìwasî, ìis notî and shall arise out of the pit. That is to say that this head ìwasî, or ruled at a time before Johnís day, ìis notî ruling during Johnís day, and shall arise in the future out of the abyss and possess the physical ruler of the toes kingdom and from there he will go into perdition, or evil deeds.

Now, this spiritual head, one of the seven on the beast, the one that rises from the abyss, appeared to be wounded, as to death, and his deadly wound was healed. Many interpretations that I have read over the years try to make this the physical personage of the Antichrist that gets a head wound and survives. I donítí think so!

This description doesnít allow for that. This angel is talking about a spiritual head, not a physical head. This is a head on the seven headed beast that rises up out of the sea (humanity). Remember, the heads are the spiritual rulers of the territories. The horns represent the physical beings.

Daniel was told by the Angel that he would have been there three weeks earlier to answer his prayer, but he was withstood by the Prince of Persia, and that he had enlisted the help of Michael, the Archangel, to hold off the Prince of Persia for him whilst he delivered the message to Daniel. Then the angel reassures Daniel that when he returns, he and Michael would do away with the Prince of Persia, and he would be no more. However, lo, the Prince of Grecia comes on the scene.

Now, when these spirit beings are removed from active duty as it were, they donít die, they are eternal beings. And the place designated for their imprisonment is the Abyss, or pit, or bottomless pit as it is sometimes referred. That is tantamount to human death, because there is no escape from there.

So, when John sees this ìheadî, which appears wounded AS to death, not dead, and his deadly wound was healed, he marveled at that sight.

Later when you come to find out that this ìheadî, spiritual leader, arises from out of that Abyss, pit, bottomless pit, you realize that itís as if his deadly wound was healed. He is let out of the pit, and lives again to rule over the Kingdom of the little horn, false deliverer, and becomes the mouth that speaks for and with the authority of Satan, who leads the little horn into perdition.

Now, who is this head? Well, the angle told John that he ìwasî before Johnís time, ìis notî during Johnís time, and then arises to infect the little horn and lead him into perdition.

The ìheadî on the beast that ruled prior to Johnís day was the head that ruled over the old Grecian Empire of Alexander the great, the Prince of Grecia. Grecia was the fifth kingdom in the succession of Kingdoms in Revelation, and the third on Nebuchadnezzarís great image, the sides of brass.

John is seeing the entire landscape of the beastly kingdoms, while Daniel only saw the land that grew out of Babylon. But there were two other Kingdoms who oppressed the Jews that came before Daniel was on the scene, Egypt and Assyria.

But Daniel saw the land that developed from Babylon into the modern day nations that sit on that land. Daniel saw clear past the Roman Empire, to the time of the end, and the ten kings that would form a loose confederacy with the little horn and make peace with Israel.

Because it was in the days of these ten kings that the Stone Kingdom would fall upon the Feet and utterly destroy all the kingdoms that were depicted in that great image. That land, depicted in Revelation, as the final beast, had feet like a bear. The bear was the Medo-Persian Empire in Daniels Prophecy, so the end times takes place in the old Medo-Persian Empire. Get a map, and see where that was. It extended from the border of India to the Mediterranean, from the Caucuses Mountains to the Arabian Sea and included Egypt, Libya.

Today we call that land the Mideast.

How can there be any doubt that the Mideast is the place where the end times of the Jew will occur.

Rome has been out of the picture for centuries. It came and went on the stage of history, just as did all the other empires on the land, and on todayís stage of history those lands of the Mideast that Rome once ruled simply marks out the territory of the ten kings that meet to make peace with Israel.

According to Daniels prophecy, they give authority to the Little Horn to act in their stead in their search for peace, and among them are three dissenters to the peace which are uprooted.

The Little Horn is given his kingdom, the eighth Kingdom, as he wins it by flattery.

To me that would mean that someone else does the uprooting, and gives the little horn his crown in honor for having come up with the solution for peace.

None of this is happening in Rome! Where do you find the Daniel scenario playing out in history; The Mideast of course, right on the land of the Bear, exactly as the prophecy calls for.

And who has the solution for peace in the Mideast; The Hashemite King Abdullah II. Where does he come from; the Seleucid portion of the Old Grecian Empire, exactly as the prophecy demands.

Thinking that all of this is going to come out of Rome or America is simply laughable. History has without a doubt proven that age old tale to be incorrect.

And, if it werenít for the fact that itís the single most important thing for a Christian to known and understand at this time, I would be laughing about it. But I canít seem to find it funny.

Literally millions of our brother and sisters are going to miss their reward, because tradition has made them complacent.

Jesus told the Pharisees that they made void the word of God by their traditions. And itís happening all over again. When I think of those poor souls in Noahís time, who laughed at that strange old man building a boat in the middle of nowhere, I get sick to my stomach. The moment it began to rain, that door closed, and they were lost; every last one of them.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 07:55 PM
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What book is Revelations? My Bible only has Revelation (singular, not plural)

You would have done well to begin the post by saying "I believe" as your belief, shared by many others, is not consistent with Revelation.

First point would be that it is a city, not a nation that persecutes God's children, especially His saints. While we may agree that alot of wickedness can be found in NYC, it has consistently been a safehaven for both Jews and Christians that have fled from persecution around the world.

A better theory is that Revelation is referring to the literal city Babylon. At the end of the Tribulation, God will visit the city on the Euphrates and destroy it.

Babylon is mentioned 6 times in Rev. as the capital of the antichrist, and while it is possible that this is code for Rome, NYC, Jerusalem or some other city, the text gives no indication that it should be taken figuratively.

Babylon is mention more often by only one city; Jerusalem. Whenever it is mentioned, it is the epitome of wickedness and rebellion against God. It is Satan's capital on earth.

Babylon is where man began the worship of himself in an organized rebellion against God.

Babylon was the capital of the first world ruler, Nimrod.

Nebuchanezzar, king of Babylon, destroyed Jerusalem.

Babylon was the capital city of the first four Gentile world empires to rule over Jerusalem.

Babylon, the literal city, would better fit the criteria laid out in Revelation 17-18 politically, geographically and in all the qualities of acessibility, commercial facilities, remoteness of interference of church and state but still maintain centrality in regard to the trade of the world, especially during the Tribulation time when the Middle East is where all will be focused.

There are other reasons, such as the river Euphrates being specifically mentioned, the vision of Zechariah, and Jeremiah clearly describing the rebuilt city of Babylon on the Euphrates, but this is enough to suggest a more plausible alternative.



posted on Mar, 26 2003 @ 10:07 PM
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Rome (Vatican City) is the Babylon of the Apocolypse.

It even says so in that very book, the whore sits between 7 hills. Well, Rome was literally a city founded upon 7 hills.

Rome is probably the richest city in the world, but we don't perceive it to be. The pope is filthy rich too.

The crusades was an campaign for Christians to get the Holy Land because the pope wanted to rule from Jerusalem, not Rome. This is exactly what is happening today. America is only preparing the way so the Pope, whoever that may be, can sit in the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem and proclaim himself to be God himself.



posted on Mar, 27 2003 @ 01:44 AM
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We have seen that the gap in time stretches from the Ascension of Jesus to the midpoint of the Great Tribulation, because thatís the time when the Antichrist kingdom comes to power. So, we have to narrow it down to why our time is the time place is the place for the ìend timeî events to occur.

To do that we have to go back into Daniel, and list the events called for in the prophecy so we can see where we are along the trail.

When Daniel interpreted King Nebuchadnezzarís dream, he described a great image, whose head was made of gold. His arms and shoulders were made of silver, the sides and belly were made of brass, the legs were made of iron, the feet of iron and clay and the toes also of iron and clay.

He told the king that his kingdom, Babylon, was the head of gold, and that after him would come a succession of kingdoms described by each of the body parts of the image. And then after the arrival of the toes kingdom on the scene, one final kingdom, described as a stone kingdom would come onto the scene and fall upon the feet kingdom and utterly destroy the place where all these kingdoms had grown up. And the stone kingdom would grow to be a great mountain that would fill the whole earth and would last forever.

Now, thatís the part of Danielís prophecy that sets the place through time on which the ìend timeî events would take place.

Through Nebuchadnezzarís dream God precisely lays out the growth of the land that will eventually become known as the Middle East. The trail of its growth over centuries is a testament to Godís complete control of space and time.

He describes perfectly the flow of kingdoms on that land. From Babylon would come Medo-Persia. Then conquering them was Grecia, under Alexander the Great. Then would come Rome.

Now Rome was perfectly depicted by the Legs of Iron, as the legs begin at the hips, and then split into two parts, just as Rome began as a single place, and then split into two parts under Constantine.

The legs move into the Feet, and out of the feet grow the 10 toes.

Now for some reason, conventional wisdom has skipped the feet kingdom of the image, and taken the liberty to have the toes kingdom grow out of the legs. I wonder why?

I believe the reason is so that there can be a justification for bringing the Roman Empire into the end times. But the prophecy clearly has a feet empire out of which the toes grow. So, we have to locate this feet empire in history, just as we have all the other empires that were prophesied to grow on that land. We canít just arbitrarily assign Rome to be the feet empire, just because they are attached to the legs, no more than we can assign the toes kingdom to Rome, just because they grew out of the feet.

So the feet become the key to understanding the end times place, because we have already passed the day of a Roman ruled kingdom on that land. And, itís on the feet that the stone kingdom of God will fall and destroy all the kingdoms that had grown on that land. And since that has not as yet come to pass, we are somewhere in time between the time after the legs and before the toes.

Now, in order for the Feet to be Rome, Rome would have had to succeed Rome on that land in history. That simply did not happen! Therefore we are left with feet and toes yet to come to pass on that land.

Now, where do we confirm that in Scripture? Revelation 17:10. Here the Angel is telling John about the beast with seven heads and ten horns that is carrying the Harlot Woman. That beast with the seven heads and ten horns is the same beast described in Daniel.

The angel tells John that the ìwisdomî is that the seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sits. Now the seven mountains represent the seven kingdoms, not Rome, because in the next sentence the angel says that there are seven kings who ruled those seven kingdoms.

And here is the important part. Of the seven kings, five of them had fallen, or already passed from the scene. One of them is ruling at the time, and the other is yet to come, and when he comes, he will only rule for a short time.

Now this seven headed beast with the ten horns is a single government. And John was asking about him, so the angel told John that it was the same beast that he had seen previously in chapter 13. (Iíll be back to him in a few minutes. The point Iím making now is who the feet kingdom turns out to be in history.)

The five kings that had come and gone prior to Johnís day, when Rome was ruling, were Egypt, who took the Jews into bondage, Assyria who conquered the Northern Tribes and carried them off, then Babylon, Medo-Persia and Grecia.

The government that ìwasî, in Johnís day was Rome, and the one that is not yet come, is the seventh, and out of him will come the eighth or Antichristís kingdom as itís commonly known.

Now, if it were Rome, I seriously doubt that the angel would have told John that there would be another that followed Rome, if it were still Rome!

And Rome is depicted by the legs of iron, and after the legs comes the feet, clearly showing that the feet are not depicting Rome.

So, now we are faced with another gap in time. The gap of time on that place between the time of Romeís rule and the Antichristís Kingdom, depicted by the toes. During that time a seventh kingdom, that comes after Rome and out of whom will grow the eighth kingdom has to make its appearance on the historical stage of time.

The next kingdom after Rome to appear on that land in history was the Moslem Empire. And guess what? It only lasted a year after the death of its founder, Mohammed, the prophet of Allah, and it split into two parts, exactly as the prophecy contends.

The two legs turn into the two feet, and out of them grow the toes, or final eighth kingdom called Antichristís Kingdom.

So, the Moslem Empire is where Nebuchadnezzarís trail leads us. It is the seventh kingdom of Revelation 17 and the one on which the stone kingdom will fall, causing all the kingdoms of the past to be destroyed. The feet depict the Moslem Empire!

So, when the Stone Kingdom comes on the historical scene, it will fall upon the Moslem Empire, thus destroying all of the kingdoms that grew out of Babylon.

Now, the Moslem Empire was founded by Mohammed, the prophet of Allah, and he ruled from his kingdom called the Hashemite Kingdom. Incorporated within the borders of the Hashemite Kingdom of the time, we find ten modern Moslem nations that were once part of the territory ruled by Rome in itís time. The Hashemite Kingdom also fits within the borders of the Seleucid portion of the Old Grecian Empire of Alexander, which is exactly where Daniel prophesies that the Antichrist will come from.

So, the gap in time between the legs and the toes is historically fulfilled up to the feet. We are able to trace, and have seen the coming and going of the seventh kingdom of Revelation 17, or feet kingdom of the great image of Nebuchadnezzar from Danielís prophecy. So we are now all the way down the trail in time to awaiting the toes kingdom that grows out of the feet kingdom, or Moslem Empire.



posted on Mar, 27 2003 @ 03:23 AM
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TC,
I do believe the antichrist is going to operate from ancient Babylon(Society against God), Iraq. Now that doesn't mean I believe he grew up there. We can ultimately only watch the prophecy be fullfilled. Let's see who takes over after Saddam.

The Jews are still waiting for the deliverer of Isaiah 61, who comes in vengeance to destroy their enemies. And that will be their downfall again, because He will come, but not until after a person, who, at the appointed time, uses that knowledge to deceive a majority of them into thinking that he is their earthly deliverer. That person will be the false deliverer / Antichrist. And the story confirmed by Jesus in Matthew 24 and brutally spelled out in the Book of Revelations is the result. But, by then the Church is gone, so the prophecy in them are for those left here.

The scriptures reveal a lot about this person who turns out to be the false deliverer. In them we discover his origins, his motivation, his reign of seven years and his actions during each of the first and second half of his reign.

He is called by many names. Man of Sin, Son of Perdition, The Wicked One, The Beast, The Little Horn, Gog, Antichrist, the prince that shall come and The Peacemaker. But they're all the same person.

In his time he is really three things. First he is a person. later he's also a government, and finally he and his government are spirit ruled. We know that he comes on the scene in peace. We know that his swiftness and cunning are as Alexander the great, that his territory is in the land of the Old Medo-Persian domain, his capital is Baghdad, his goal is power, and he is ruled by a spirit during the last half of his reign. We know that the spirit that rules him is the evil prince of Grecia, the same spirit that once ruled the Grecian Conqueror, Alexander.

We know that he rises to power from within a group of ten kings from the Eastern Leg of the Old Roman Empire. We know that he brings about a peace agreement between the Jews, and the other kings, that permits the Jews to rebuild their temple and resume sacrificing. We know he uproots three of the ten kings from whence he came. We know that after three and a half years he breaks his deal with all of them, and takes over.

The story takes us to a time in history when the world's attention is focused on the kingdoms of the Middle east, because the trouble brewing there, is leading to some extremely bad news for the world. But, a peacemaker, one of the kings of the region, enters stage left, just in the nick of time, provides the recipe for peace, and gets things peaceful and quieted down for a while. [three and one half years]

The worlds undivided attention is presently being directed towards those very kings, and that very territory, and for good reason.

It started with the rebirth of the free state of Israel, in 1948, and has become an escalating source as an 'attention getter' over the years, as it evolved into its present status. It began to get serious notice in 1973, with the oil crisis, OPEC, and how the balance of money shifted towards the mid-east. It reached the state of undivided, when Saddam decided to make a play for the oil, in a move that he anticipated would bring great power and authority to himself, and the respect of his fellows.

His actions brought about the opposite. He gained no ones respect, and his military might was quelled. Well, at least for the time being. He is a madman, who had the power to use chemical, biological and nuclear weapons against his enemies. He hates the Jews, and wants them out of there, and he also knows what power the oil commands.

Rightly, the worlds leaders agree that, he, nor any of his pals, can be allowed to destroy that part of the world. The oil is too important. Their fanatical contempt for the Jews, is the underlying cause that might incite one of them to destroy, not only the Jews, but potentially millions around the world, and the OIL!

Saddam demonstrated the he had no regard for the oil, he set it ablaze! He had no regard for human life, he used chemicals on the Kurds! His pals, Kadahfi of Libya, and Hassad of Syria are no better. They sponsor the terrorist groups that keep the area in turmoil, so they won't make peace. They even have the audacity to threaten the United States with their terrorist acts in this country, trying to keep us out of their business. But, their business is our business, so, along with the rest of the semi-sane world, we're in their faces.

The world tuned in CNN and watched with amazement, in living color, as a united coalition joined in a quick decisive war against Saddam, saved the oil from near disaster, and reduced his potential immediate threat. Yet, the rumblings from those countries continues to grow louder each day.

What's really needed there right now, is a peaceful solution, so the world can have time to stabilize its' oil based economy, and secure it's future.

On today's stage, the scene that is called for in the story requiring the emergence of the 'little horn' character has arrived. And, there's a player on stage, bewildering the cast, with his inspiringly motivated, 'little horn', performance.

He is of sufficient stature, has a focused motivation, [known only to him] and the necessary commodity to make it work. Presently negotiating a plan for peace that must satisfy the greatest majority, so peace can be declared. Anyone dissatisfied enough, after that, to raise their weapons against peace, would be dealt with for the common good, by the common military.

The on-stage player in this high steaks game of power fits the description of the 'little horn' character to a tee. First, his kingdom is insignificant. It was a gift, has very few natural resources, very little money, and is on Palestinian land. However, his regal descendancy, his true identity, is through the Hashemite Kingdom of the old Muslim Empire, the seventh Empire on the Babylonian Land of old; religious royalty, descendants of the prophet Muhammad. A true gentleman, progressive leader, military strategist and survivor. He is alive mostly because of his powerful western friends, his cunning, and his willingness to get along with everyone in the region, just to keep what he has.
Several attempts have been made on his life since 1952 when he ascended his throne, after the death of his grandfather. In 1958 his cousin, King Fisal II of Iraq, and his family, were assassinated, in a military junta, sponsored by Egypt and Syria. Then they tried to over throw him, but the USA, the Brits and his loyal locals, along with his own courage and military ability, saved the day. However, he has vowed to regain control of his Hashemite land of Iraq that was lost at the time. King Hussein, the Hashemite King, and 42nd descendant of the Prophet Muhammad died in February of 1999 and was replaced by his eldest son Abdullah bin Hussein. King Abdullah is the new Hashemite King.

His kingdom is a small, poor place under great pressure and threats from all around him. He must really despise Egypt and Syria for what they have done to he, his family, and his kingdom, yet he does anything it takes to keep the peace with them. In August 1967, when the entire region was plotting against the Jews, he attended the conference in Khartoum, out of which came the 'three no's" resolution [no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, and no negotiations with Israel], while all the time secretly meeting with Israel for over fifteen years to keep better relations with them. But, he never would make peace with them, for fear of reprisals from other Arab nations.

In the 1973 war, he refused to join Syria and Egypt in a surprise attack against Israel, but he sent a few tanks to the Golan Heights in support of Syria. [he has to go the way the wind blows] He got sucked into the '67 war, and was massacred. He lost troops, and land, lots of his best land, the west bank. He immediately started secretly meeting with Israel for cultivation rights. He was stuck with 200,000 Palestinian refugees, a problem that he feared at the time could overtake him and cause him to loose his kingdom. He helped when Carter got Sadat and Begin together, when Israel made peace with Egypt. He has always been a spokesman for peace in the region, because he needs it worse than anyone. He gets pushed around more than any other nation in the Mideast.

When the PLO came into his country, he had to accommodate them, and got pushed around by Arafat, but all the while, still secretly meeting with Israel. During the Gulf war, he sided with Iraq, because 40 percent of his money came from trade with Iraq. But, he was secretly a double agent for his best friends, the USA. When Saddam found out about the double cross, he put a bounty on his head.

His main financial support comes from the USA, Britton, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

Now, even he, has finally made an official peace with Israel. And, once again he has been asked, by the worlds leaders, and his Arab coalition, to act as the peacemaker for the region. [That's been going on since 1980] In fact, he has been declared "The Peacemaker" in newspaper headlines. The Saudi's, and the other Arabians are in, Egypt is there and he's on board. They have called him "an honorable man", one that can be trusted. [In the story, he wins his kingdom by flattery. And, since he already owns one, kingdom, that is, it must be another that he is trying to win.]

Only Syria and Libya to go. [If it happened that Iraq got uprooted,which it looks that way, he would be in position to regain his Hashemite Kingdom. That would make him much richer, and a lot more powerful in a big hurry. If Syria took offence to that move, he would be in a position to do a little uprooting in that direction also, and then an even larger part of the old Hashemite Kingdom would be in his hands, and he'd be even richer.]

He would be much admired then, because he would be restored to his ancestral throne, had made peace for the Jews and their neighbors, restored order to that part of the world and stabilized the oil, because now it is in the hands of the sane, rather than the insane, and no more threats. The 'little horn', who started out the underdog, shoved around, and dependent on everyone, is now looking pretty good.

In fact, a couple years of peace and stability would open the way for another Daniel prophecy to come to pass. He will come against the richest provinces when they feel secure. If he regained the Iraqi [Hashemite] Kingdom, and he got control of the Saudi and Kuwaiti Oil, along with his own, and, he had a few of those dirty little toys of Saddams hidden away, you'd wake up one morning, and this 'little horn' would be THE MAN! The center of the money world would suddenly be Babylon!

If the worlds stage is playing out Daniels' story, then the scene on stage right now, would have to play out with that kind of scenario. The real time, day to day scene in the middle east is presently playing out this exact scenario. The rise of such a person happens in the story, so it will happen on the stage.

The Hashemite King is a brilliant man. Military strategist, a survivor who has the right motivation. The Hashemite land is properly his, and getting it back while helping the world is righteous. He doesn't do the other stuff until he becomes Gog, ruled by the evil prince of Grecia. Until then, his intentions are solidly founded. Look for him to do something of unequaled significance to bring about peace.

The players are on the stage of history, the drama is being played out, and the scenes that are unfolding are amazingly in line with the events described centuries ago by Daniel.

Daniel was a captured Jew who rose to the highest position in the court of Babylon. He had credibility because he possessed the power of his god. Because of him, King Nebuchadnezzar, declared to his nation, that Daniels' god was God. And now, Daniels' prophesy of the end times of his people and his holy city [Jerusalem] is walking around on the stage of history.

Of the players on the stage, the Hashemite King is the player best positioned, and has been selected, by the rest of the cast, for the role of the peacemaker. The new King, King Abdullah is pictured taking the oath of office adjacent to the portrait of his father King Hussein. His policies and objectives remain true to King Hussein's.

He wants to be everybody's friend, even though secretly, he has to despise those that use him and his present kingdom as a pawn. Iraq and Syria are his greatest enemies, because they sit on his rightful kingdom, which they stole from him. Now, he's wooing Syria to join he, Egypt and the Arabs, to get in on the peace with Israel.

What will Syria do? Is Israel going to continue with the peace? Will the escalation of hostilities in Palestine result in a change of Israeli government? Stay tuned.

That's it right up to January, 1997. [5757 for the Jews] Now you know the prophecy of the rise of Antichrist, and how that prophecy is playing out in our time. It is either happening or it's not.

The reason to watch all of this is simple. The peacemaker can't make the peace, and arise on the scene as the peacemaker until after the church is caught away. By identifying him, through the role he's playing on today's stage, we are able to track his progress towards peace, and thereby watch just how close we are to the Rapture.

If this is the time, and these are the events, you can't miss but to know who the peacemaker character is, even if it changes from one player to another. The players are the players, the stage is the stage, and the prophecy is the story.

If these are the preached 'END TIMES', this has to be the reason it is. Show me what else is occurring on the stage of history today that even closely resembles the present Mideast circumstances, that would give, to the religious leaders of the world, a reason to preach and have accepted, that these are the end times of the Bible.

Daniels prophecy was about the end time of his people the Jews and their holy city Jerusalem. Looking for end times, look there. He was told to seal up the prophecy until it's time. If you find Daniels drama going on there now, then it is end times.

Don't be fooled by the traditions, and teachings based on traditions, that we can't know any of these things. Ok.. if you don't believe me, so be it. At least I tried step by step to present my case. Peace.


[Edited on 3-27-03 by pacman]



posted on Mar, 27 2003 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by Illmatic67
Rome (Vatican City) is the Babylon of the Apocolypse.

It even says so in that very book, the whore sits between 7 hills. Well, Rome was literally a city founded upon 7 hills.

Rome is probably the richest city in the world, but we don't perceive it to be. The pope is filthy rich too.
The crusades was an campaign for Christians to get the Holy Land because the pope wanted to rule from Jerusalem, not Rome. This is exactly what is happening today. America is only preparing the way so the Pope, whoever that may be, can sit in the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem and proclaim himself to be God himself.


Why do you think GW-BUSH obsess by BAGDAD governement ? Because GOD said him that BABYLON THE GREAT must fall. He simply didnt understand that USA are GREAT BABYLON !



posted on Mar, 27 2003 @ 05:48 AM
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If anybody wants to ignore my long posts above, believe me I understand, but make no mistake about it...

the stage is in the middle east. The stage has ALWAYS been in the middle east. It doesn't mean other places aren't or can't be involved. It just means what the Bible is talking about(the stage for the antichrist) is in the middle east. Peace.

[Edited on 3-27-03 by pacman]



posted on Mar, 27 2003 @ 10:48 AM
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Especially after what was said in Blair/Bushs' latest speech. They are going to obviously rebuild the "new Babylon" in the middle east and appoint a new leader as well, wonder who it will be? humm humm humm...



posted on Mar, 27 2003 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS

Originally posted by Illmatic67
Rome (Vatican City) is the Babylon of the Apocolypse.

It even says so in that very book, the whore sits between 7 hills. Well, Rome was literally a city founded upon 7 hills.

Rome is probably the richest city in the world, but we don't perceive it to be. The pope is filthy rich too.
The crusades was an campaign for Christians to get the Holy Land because the pope wanted to rule from Jerusalem, not Rome. This is exactly what is happening today. America is only preparing the way so the Pope, whoever that may be, can sit in the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem and proclaim himself to be God himself.


Why do you think GW-BUSH obsess by BAGDAD governement ? Because GOD said him that BABYLON THE GREAT must fall. He simply didnt understand that USA are GREAT BABYLON !


Not much on that Bible thing, are you sweetie?

On the contrary. I'll bet you a snail baked in butter and garlic that because of this liberation of the nation in which you will find Babylon, the city on the Euphrates is going to become a thriving comercial-zone again.



posted on Mar, 27 2003 @ 06:51 PM
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Bit confused why the bible draws so much attention compared to other ancient texts but...

We all know the bible has undergone massive revision/editing since the texts were first laid down. If Revelations as a holy book is to be taken in the same context as the rest of the biblical texts how can we except it as it is presented . The book itself is full of metaphor and can be construed any which way you want. Surely such things as prophecy (being similiar to witchcraft etc) fall under the aegis of the father of lies.

I think with Revelations, due to its overwhelming power as a text (demonstrated aptly here), could be applied to many periods in history. When the seriousness of our mistakes and lack of control in international affairs strikes home, it seems that its is the end of days. May be this is why so many people over the centuries have topped themselves after comparing the state of play with this text. I`m sure causing this amount of distress was never in Gods plan. Revelations always seem like the prince of lies work, look how much trouble it causes people.

When war and pestilence invade the human religious mind the natural comfort is Revelations.

[Edited on 28-3-2003 by cassini]



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