Items that will contine to function after a collapse.

reply to post by Oaktree


I think if we had an EMP that could reverse polarize magnets, the generator would be the least of our worries. Good luck mate, I'll check this thread tomorrow

I'm quite certain of this after doing extensive research on this particular item that is definitey one of the items that will function after a collapse, and will never let you down - The Crowbar!

reply to post by Invariance


Agreed!
That would be an ugly world at that point.

3. Industrial/commercial fire-control systems?

Does anyone know whether those fire sprinklers in institutional ceilings are connected to a large tank somewhere? Or are they merely connected to the water main that feeds the building.

I'd guess there is a large holding tank on the roof; otherwise you'd have no water if there was no utility service.

That water could be an important resource in a SHTF scenario, when water is scarce and fire isn't an immediate concern.

Anybody know about this?

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


sorry but what a bunch of non-sense

what you are saying is :

- excrement in earth : epidemic threat

-excrement directly in rivers (your water-treatment plant won't be working) : safe

jeez I'm speachless

and we are here to deny ignorance...

you guys are for real or just software ?

wake up (real only) people

Phosphorus comes from several sources: human wastes, animal wastes, industrial wastes, and human disturbance of the land and its vegetation.

Sewage from wastewater treatment plants and septic tanks is one source of phosphorus in rivers. Sewage effluent (out flow) should not contain more than 1 mg/ L phosphorus according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, but outdated wastewater treatment plants often fail to meet this standard. Also, some types of industrial wastes interfere with the removal of phosphorus at wastewater treatment plants.

Storm sewers sometimes contain illegal connections to sanitary sewers. Sewage from these connections can be carried into waterways by rainfall and melting snow. Phosphorus-containing animal wastes sometimes find their way into rivers and lakes in the runoff from feedlots and barnyards.

www.indiana.edu...

Composting toilet systems (sometimes called biological toilets, dry toilets and waterless toilets) contain and control the composting of excrement, toilet paper, carbon additive, and, optionally, food wastes. Unlike a septic system a composting toilet system relies on unsaturated conditions (material cannot be fully immersed in water), where aerobic bacteria and fungi break down wastes, just as they do in a yard waste composter. Sized and operated properly, a composting toilet breaks down waste to 10 to 30 percent of its original volume. The resulting end-product is a stable soil-like material called "humus," which legally must be either buried or removed by a licensed seepage hauler in accordance with state and local regulations in the United States. In other countries, humus is used as a soil conditioner on edible crops.

The primary objective of the composting toilet system is to contain, immobilize or destroy organisms that cause human disease (pathogens), thereby reducing the risk of human infection to acceptable levels without contaminating the immediate or distant environment and harming its inhabitants.

oikos.com...

edit: and you know why it is illegal ? because it is a loss of business for water treatment lobby and most of all fertilizer (oil/chemical lobby) business

reply to post by XmikaX


i would think twice about using human excrement for gardening purposes based on diet. with regards to output, i'm told a meat-eaters diet is not as healthy a choice as a vegetarians. when we had bunnies living in the house their pellets made the highest quality fertilizer you would ever want to use, simply wonderful. but my wife always made me dispose of our dogs feces because we use cold cuts to hide her meds, and she is allowed plate scraps (bits of chicken, steak, sausage).

my wife told me the meat-eaters diet as fertilizer is not good for plants and such. have you ever heard similar? personally i think a garden would grow more well with than without, either way.

i also appreciate your comment on modern bathrooms. while it makes sense that we have to effectively manage our wastes i've long thought it absurd how mankind deals with such primal needs. having a room of my house committed to human waste disposal while I let our dog express herself all over the lawn strikes me as odd.

Originally posted by XmikaX
reply to post by dr_strangecraft

 

sorry but what a bunch of non-sense

what you are saying is :

- excrement in earth : epidemic threat

That's NOT what I am saying. You are so busy mis-reading, so eager to inject your own superiority, that you are completely missing my input.

Excrement "in the earth" is no threat at all. But getting the excrement in the earth is the trick. You have to handle it. You have to have a regimen set up for composting it. And other people have to respect your compost pile. And you have to handle your own poop. Handling your own poop contributes directly to enhanced opportunities for getting sick. In the wake of a hurricane, or an atomic detonation, your primary needs may not be building a hot compost pile.

if you are in a fallout zone, you may need to stay indoors for all but a few minutes a day. you wouldn't really have time to be turning a pile at that point.

-excrement directly in rivers (your water-treatment plant won't be working) : safe

I am NOT talking about crapping in the river. I am saying the opposite of that. I am saying that most water treatment plants will continue to function at least passively for as much as a week or two as output slows when the population begins to flee, and people QUIT taking showers, watering ornamental lawns, etc.

Most of the places where night soil or humanure is practiced have also had serious epidemics of typhoid fever---named aver the typhoon season, incidentally, when human compost piles get flooded in southeast asia.

Look, I didn't mean for this to be a toilet thread. But apparently you're pretty fixated on that. I suggest you search "night soil" in this survival forum, and you'll find a great deal of ATS discussion on the topic--some of which I've posted in also.

Moving on

POTS network phone service.

In rural areas, where service has not been converted to fiber optics, the phone may still function on a 90 volt "local loop". Where these loops still exist, that are extremely reliable, and also a source of current that could be used as a power source (which would need to be converted).

They are designed to (and usually do) function completely independently of other utilities, and continue to function when the regular electrical service is disrupted.

Something worth considering in the first couple of days after a disaster. Even when cell phones cease to function, a local loop could still work until the central office loses its battery banks.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft

Composting Toilets are ancient man.... hmmmm...

Look ---> Link: ---> ROTA-LOO composting toilets DO NOT use any water! .... These are excellent examples of the process. There's ZERO issues you seem to bring up... In Fact... such toilets are "cleaner" and better then the massive "sewage" systems of complication and Chemicals.....

When it comes to anything running off of "fuel"... The best bet is Diesel... as "Unleaded / petrol" will not be provided... but you will find that Bio-Diesel is easy to manufacture..... after all... oil grows on trees! ah... and Hemp :| and ah.... sunflowers.. and.... many oil plants basically... a cold press and some knowledge can give you "fuel".

This applies to "cars' especially.... diesel is the best thing... trying to get refined unleaded fuel will be difficult to say the least.... yet Bio-Diesel can be managed by most any of us....

The compost from the Roto Loo can be used to cultivate Mambo Oil Plants for the bio-diesel... OK?

OK! All Solutions provided.. Now... Run with it!!!!

reply to post by dr_strangecraft

Good thread topic, Dr Strangecraft, even if it has been invaded by the oh-so-superior. S&F for your efforts to educate.

Did not know that ALL electronics have microprocessors in them now (even coffeepots)
so that's good to know. I think I can still boil water and pour it over coffee grounds so I'm
not too worried about such amenities as I am about survival items.

I keep hand tools (although I need to replace my stolen adze...not an easy task). I have hand drills, knives,
sharpeners and a multitude of other items that don't need plugging into a wall outlet. Yes, labor is much slower without power tools and convenience appliances but survival is generally not considered a convenient situation.

"Stuff" can be stolen, damaged, lost, or degraded but knowledge of how to get by without stuff is yours forever.

reply to post by Serafine


No doubt there are excellent composting toilets in the world. And they will, like the other items in this thread, continue to function in the event of a crisis or "SHTF" scenario.

I don't have access to one right now. And I'm not about to go looking for one if the world has gone down the tubes. Well, at least it wont be first on my list.

But then, this wasn't a thread about optimal sewage treatment. it was about usable infrastructure and gadgets will continue on for the "day after."

[edit to add]

Both the "root-a-loo" and the "Biolet" have an electric fan! The root-a-loo will still function (stinkily) without it, but the Biolet has an electric heater to cause the composting. The brochure for the root-a-loo simply says that it is "best in warm environments," and it's function will be "slower" in colder climates/weather.

That is hardly "superior" to most conventional systems.
[continuing: ]

Look, I am profoundly sorry and humbly repent of bringing the topic of toilets up. I was merely pointing out that large parts of sewer infrastructure are gravity-driven, and so would continue to function longer than you'd expect. An important fact, if you are so busy trying to find food to feed your group that you don't have the extra life-energy to invest in building a hygienic and sustainable crapper.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


Many people live these lifestyles... without a major world changing "event". Many have long been living this way... granted media "exposure" isn't much of a factor, but living off the grid, or on the fringes of Babylon is a real way of life for many people.

Alternative energy has been and is operative... running fans.. heaters.. etc is not an issue. I understand... I guess, from your post that a city or middle town lifestyle has issues... But dedicating time and money / effort in alternatives isn't that difficult and might be considered NOW rather than when some "event" provides challenges...

So... many things will function "after" such changes... People grow grass in their yards eh? GRASS! and use unleaded in a lawn mower to cut that precious grass! Having organic gardens ( and the knowledge and experience of same ) in place of grass would be a start for many, many people and communities...

Maybe living off the grid will answer many of the questions in this thread? Food from a shop is one thing... food stashed and in your garden is another... Energy / electricity from a major grid and company is one thing... alternative self-owned and run systems, another...

As Jeniffer Lady Guinevere ( White Wave ) posted here... she has real tools and patience eh? Sounds like a real life...

Though you didn't respond to it.... the diesel thing is important.... and the older diesel cars / trucks etc are better for running off bio-diesel. Sure there are things to learn and consider, but working them out is fun...

But living this way now is also important and many people do... I've lived with not only Roto-Loo but outright homemade built ones.... I live with alternative "power" with gardens and farms and on and on... But most important of all... Our minds and hearts should function during and after ANY of these major changes or events...

Attitude will be important and help will be needed by those who have no idea what to do. I've been in the eye of many a hurricane and slapped by the edges of a few too! Having no power or water for weeks is nothing in hurricane regions... The "National Disaster" and National Guard scare tactics of mass media have little to do with the real nature of it... People know what to do... what not to do... people have resources and stashes... people have been through it all before.. often many times... and it's FINE

What will "function" after such events is what functions NOW without the grid... without the "Food comes from stores" mentality.... anyway man... a flag for the Thread.. even though it had a rocky start! lol.....

reply to post by XmikaX


Dude no one is a bot...stop with that nonsense.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


That is the problem. As far as I knew there has not been any research on how EMP would effect a small gas engine either the older ones with points and condenser or the new electric type ignitions. If any research has been done I sure have never heard of it. A "back-up" coil as a spare in some type of EMP sheilding would not be a bad idea just in case.

Originally posted by Serafine
reply to post by dr_strangecraft

 

Many people live these lifestyles... without a major world changing "event". Many have long been living this way... granted media "exposure" isn't much of a factor, but living off the grid, or on the fringes of Babylon is a real way of life for many people.

I am migrating there myself, and have been working on it for some time.

Alternative energy has been and is operative... running fans.. heaters.. etc is not an issue. I understand... I guess, from your post that a city or middle town lifestyle has issues... But dedicating time and money / effort in alternatives isn't that difficult and might be considered NOW rather than when some "event" provides challenges...

Perhaps you are jumping to conclusions about both my lifestyle and the gist of this thread? One of the possible catastrophes that I and several other ATSers have posted about is called a "coronal mass ejection," A sunspot storm originating in the sun. The most powerful one in human history occurred in 1859, before there was any telecom other than telegraphs. Many telegraph machines caught fire, and all batteries and coils connected to long circuits were fried. If THAT scenario were to repeat, then a toilet or other device would lose any fan or heater it needed to operate. The whole thing is quite hypothetical, since no one is exactly sure what would happen...

I am dedicating myself to preparation before time; hence this thread....

So... many things will function "after" such changes...

Depends upon which change you are thinking of; not likely in the case of the CME that hit western Canada in the early 1990's. It took over a year to re-wire some remote areas. I authored this thread about such a scenario. I

Maybe living off the grid will answer many of the questions in this thread?

Yes. But parts of Babylon will still be functional, even in a crisis. After all, Rome wasn't burnt in a day. This thread contemplates the parts of Babylon that may still be functional, if only temporarily, and thus could ease human suffering as millions are forced to make a transition to a new way of life.

Though you didn't respond to it.... the diesel thing is important.... and the older diesel cars / trucks etc are better for running off bio-diesel.

One of the problems with all diesels is that they require fairly high compression within the engine in order to ignite. My limited understanding is that this is part of what makes diesel mechanics a more complicated discipline.

While it is not as popular with the press, I personally think that alcohol as a fuel has a fair amount of promise. While more volatile than either diesel or gasoline (and so much less suitable for vehicles in it's pure state), alcohol fuels can be produced on a scale suitable for the garage or kitchen. You don't need a more exotic crop, or any processing of the crop product. Also, the fermentation time tends to be a lot shorter.

Additionally, alcohol as fuel stores well, doesn't freeze or congeal (a constant problem with diesel in the cold), and can be used for light as well as fuel. While more volatile and dangerous, a unit of alcohol has 3 or 4 times as much combustible energy as the same unit of a diesel. An important consideration for small scale operations, particularly if refining your own fuel becomes illegal or makes you a target.

But living this way now is also important and many people do... I've lived with not only Roto-Loo but outright homemade built ones....

I have a great deal of experience with what in the Middle East is called a "Turkish Toilet," so I'm open to alternative forms of evacuation.

I also have extensive experience with composting. I have learned that the enemies of composting are grease, animal waste, and seeds. (all kill beneficial bacteria and attract vermin). I also have experience raising pigs, which many say have feces most like human feces.

One problem with composting human waste, I suspect, is that like pig-poop, it is too "hot" to use on crops for a year or more due to excessive amounts of nitrogen. If you use omnivore waste (like a person's) as the "green" or nitrogen component of your heap, you'll need to add so much "brown" (dead cellulose) that you are actually composting lots of other things and not primarily the human waste you set out to dispose of. Which means a lot more work. At least pigs will plough their poo into the soil for you, using their noses (!)

Another concern of mine (which I have never had satisfactorily answered) is about hookworm and ringworm. Ringworm is a fungus with spores that can survive for two years or more in a hostile environment. How do you keep that from spreading to food crops, unless you wait more than 2 years on your manure??? Likewise this wikipedia article highlights the endemic nature of hookworm in parts of the world where "night soil" is used to fertilize crops, with some infection rates reaching 60% of the population.....

Having no power or water for weeks is nothing in hurricane regions... The "National Disaster" and National Guard scare tactics of mass media have little to do with the real nature of it... People know what to do... what not to do... people have resources and stashes... people have been through it all before.. often many times... and it's FINE

just. Wow. I'm glad hurricanes are nothing to you. You obviously don't need any of the survival threads on ATS!

What will "function" after such events is what functions NOW without the grid... without the "Food comes from stores" mentality.... anyway man... a flag for the Thread.. even though it had a rocky start! lol.....

EXACTLY the kind of flippancy that will get a lot of people killed, in something like a Carrington event, or even a garden-variety blizzard, where diesel freezes up inside engines. If you leave diesel in the fuel lines long enough for it to freeze, no amount of ether in the world will boost a diesel engine until after the thaw. The only true preventative is to run kerosene as a fuel for a few minutes prior to shutting down the engine BEFORE temperatures drop. But you probably knew that already.

Yet there might be other folks who are looking for information like that.

Funny how you and x_MIKA_x are pretty sure I'm full of crap; yet you post only generalities and I post lots of quite specific information.

I wonder what that means.

Originally posted by fixer1967
reply to post by dr_strangecraft

 

That is the problem. As far as I knew there has not been any research on how EMP would effect a small gas engine either the older ones with points and condenser or the new electric type ignitions. If any research has been done I sure have never heard of it. A "back-up" coil as a spare in some type of EMP sheilding would not be a bad idea just in case.

I am totally guessing; I saw a late 1980s briggs & stratton 5 hp motor malfunction (refuse to "crank up") while a tesla coil was powered, but be fully functional once the coil was turned off. "Assuming" that a CME is analogous to a tesla field, it might not cause permanent damage. But the B&S had no electronics or starting coil.....

Which is why I brought up small engines and go-carts earlier.....

(EDIT TO ADD)

I see where you are talking about an EMP specifically, which might be a different issue (I need to read more attentively.)

If sheet metal can function as a Faraday cage, then most industrial and farm machinery might be constantly shielded while stored in a metal barn, quonset hut, or steel building. Would this limit the impact?

That might mean that an EMP would affect primarily civilian consumers. A need way to incapacitate a civilian economy, if EMP could be deployed as a weapon......

reply to post by Oaktree




There is nothing wrong with the plans or your idea. The key is sheilding. A "back-up" coil as a spare in some type of EMP sheilding would not be a bad idea just in case. What are you going to plug into the generator after an EMP strick? As pointed out in other post almost every thing is chipped now days. Even the new light bulbs. The older ones that are being outlawed would be the ones to have around in case of an EMP strick. I have heard a rumor that an older tube type radio would survive a much bigger EMP strick than a new moden radio would. I do not have any way to test that rumor.

I found this about EMP weapons and E-bombs. You may want to read it.
EMP and E-bombs