Items that will contine to function after a collapse.

I am making notes of systems and tools that will continue to function at least partly after a collapse. My first example is:

Most Toilets and sewers
Even after the public water supply is turned off, most toilets will function for a number of days or even several weeks afterward. If you have ever had the local government turn off your water service (that's another thread), you probably know that a gallon of water poured quickly down the toilet's bowl will cause it to "flush" in the normal manner. You could pour the water in the water closet (the reservoir on the back), but that's an extra effort that is wasted if you were just passing through an abandoned building.

I have actually discussed this with someone who works with the city water dept. He cited a city in Texas where the water source was contaminated by sewage after floods, and was turned off for 3 weeks. A large minority of the population waited out the situation with the army providing potable water. The public still used their potties, and there were only 3 places in the affected city where sewage backed up. (all low spots). But not of those problems affected anyone's toilet directly.

My point is. Just because the water gets turned off, don't think you necessarily must abandon a building immediately. Yes, you'll have to carry in your "flushing water," but that can buy you time to lay low and still keep better hygiene that with a field latrine.

Depends on the sort of collapse, if we get a major EM pulse from the sun, we can look forward to mechanical items to work. OLD cards (anything with an electronic ignition modulator (after 1983) can be changed back) Get the steam-powered generators.

Your thread title is kind of broad... anything specific you want to discuss?

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


and you are going to waste that precious water ?

excrement have never been meant to be flush in water; they're meant for earth, in fact it is the best fertilizer ever. You'll need it after tshtf as much as we'll need clean rivers and ground-water. the water treatment plant won't be working you know.

time to get back to nature laws, and if you leave in a house with some kind of garden don't wait for tshtf to set yourself up.

en.wikipedia.org...

(you just need sawdust -remove also all odors- and one square meter in the garden for storage; after 6 month you have topnotch fertilizer)

please keep your next bad ideas for yourself ! edit: no don't actually; if it can help avoid making such silly mistakes better you share again so you can find out why it is so silly !

I am trying to think broadly, in terms of things you'd encounter as a survivor---particularly systems that you could scavenge and rig into your own mechanisms. Your post made me think about

small gasoline engines
Like those in gas-driven pumps and even lawn-mowers. My understanding is, even after an intense coronal mass ejection (solar storm) or EMP, these smaller motors would be ok, since they don't rely on a starter solenoid. This means that such motors might still function and could be converted to other uses. Or if you found a go-cart powered by a lawn-mower motor (popular in my youth), it might still function when most other vehicles wouldn't.

Going potty will be the least of my concerns when SHTF.

Human excrement may contain pharmaceuticals, diseases, worms and a plethora of bad bacteria that can transfer to plants unless properly treated... else it will wind up turning your survival garden into a fallow land full of disease infested plants. Even when human waste is composted and properly cleaned, it is still never recommended for use on edible plants. PLEASE never consider this as an option unless thoroughly investigating the sterilization procedures!

If you really want to know what will work, look back about 100 years, all the way back to the pre-microchip era. Did you know that human tools remained relatively unchanged for thousands of years? Viking age tools for example looked a lot like the ones they use at New Williamsburg? (Thank You Roy Underhill!) And a seamstress had needles and shear type scissors over 2000 years ago.

I recommend you get a book entitled When Technology Fails: A Manual For Self-Reliance & Planetary Survival by Matthew Stein as well as Feasting Free on Wild Edibles by Bradford Angier (a bit old, but the best one I've found yet)

reply to post by frozenspark


Most soldiers who've ever died in the field, have died of dysentery or some kind of typhoid fever. Even when you keep yourself clean, flies congregate in improvised latrines, and the flies feeding on feces and corpses rapidly spread such "camp fever diseases." Particularly for refugee populations, these diseases are often the primary health threat.

It may be the least of your worries. It might not be the least of your problems.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
reply to post by frozenspark

 

Most soldiers who've ever died in the field, have died of dysentery or some kind of typhoid fever. Even when you keep yourself clean, flies congregate in improvised latrines, and the flies feeding on feces and corpses rapidly spread such "camp fever diseases." Particularly for refugee populations, these diseases are often the primary health threat.

It may be the least of your worries. It might not be the least of your problems.

Looking at the way people lived before indoor plumbing, I wonder why these people never died from using outhouses. Thia makes me confused. Were they used to 'dirtier' conditions than we are? You've got to admit, us Westerners are rather clean freaks I think. Help me understand why our soldiers die like this now and our ancestors lived please?

reply to post by XmikaX


I am not contemplating pouring drinking water down a toilet! But there is always bathwater, dishwater, rainwater, gray water from laundry, green water from abandoned swimming pools and ornamental ponds, etc.

Personally, I am not convinced that "night soil" can ever be really safe. And stirring through your own or companions' poop is a great recipe for an epidemic, particularly in the wake of a natural or man-made disaster, with a large refugee population.

But hey, help yourself. If it makes you feel all superior and green, then get after it.

Pardon me if I don't shake hands.

rain collection water systems are cheap these days

that water can be used for flushing but it needs filtration to be potable.

small gasoline engines?

Now something I know a lot about. I work in a small engine repair shop and have been working on small engines for over 30 years. Starting in the early 80's the stopped using points type ignition systems. They went to microprocessor controlled ignition systems. Yes, even that cheap chainsaw and string trimmer has a microprocessor controlled ignition system as does every other small gas engine. So if an EMP hit all bets are off as to what may and may not run.
I seen a metal tool shed hit by lightening and the riding mower and push mower and leaf blower would not run until the ignition coils were replaced. The lightening took out 3 of 3 so who know for sure what an EMP would do.

reply to post by Invariance


Population density would be my first guess. Breakdown in latrine discipline is my second.

When I hunt, we take time to dig a proper latrine, with a box of lime handy; we move the latrine every 3 days also. Plus, if a guy "misses," he is automatically on latrine duty as punishment.

Our ancestors (in the west) lived in small groups of < 300 people (i.e., the manorial system). Most mass effects for vermin and disease seem to kick in with groups of more than 500 congregating for weeks at a time.

Personally, I think there's a social vector. When not everyone knows you, you don't feel a personal obligation to clean up after yourself. If no one knows who made the mess, there is less stigma attached. And less stigma means no reason not to just leave it a wreck (and exporting disease).

I don't know about women's restrooms, but in the us, guys are pigs. There is an unwritten rule that no man will stand in a previous guy's urine. So sometimes you walk into a restroom, and the floor is wet, but dudes are peeing at a urinal 8 feet away! Of course they cannot hit it, but they aren't going to get dirty, "since it's already a mess anyway." Picture 10,000 soldiers who figure they may be about to die...

When discipline breaks down, as it does in transient communities of soldiers and refugees, that's when disease tends to escalate....

I have no plan to leave my home, regardless of the type of event.
The community I live I consists of 15 homes, and between those 15, we have 6 wells.
4 are drilled to depths ranging between 60 to 120 ft., while the main two wells are drilled to 210 and 220 ft.

We have a well association that brings one person from each household together once a month, and all decisions, well related or otherwise, are brought up and voted upon.

I have one of the wells on my property, along with a gas generator specifically designated to power the well.
Every other well has the same.

Two of the six wells have solar panels, inverters, and a few deep cycle batteries in case of fuel shortages.

We have streams within hundreds of yards, three rivers and two "inland" lakes within walking distance (less than a mile).

Oh yeah, I forgot.
Lake Michigan is less than three miles away.

I will be flushing my toilet as needed, along with taking baths and boiling pasta for as far out as I can see, or until I die.

Originally posted by fixer1967
small gasoline engines?

Now something I know a lot about. I work in a small engine repair shop and have been working on small engines for over 30 years. Starting in the early 80's the stopped using points type ignition systems. They went to microprocessor controlled ignition systems. Yes, even that cheap chainsaw and string trimmer has a microprocessor controlled ignition system as does every other small gas engine. So if an EMP hit all bets are off as to what may and may not run.
I seen a metal tool shed hit by lightening and the riding mower and push mower and leaf blower would not run until the ignition coils were replaced. The lightening took out 3 of 3 so who know for sure what an EMP would do.

I was thinking of an old briggs and stratton pull-type 5 hp engine on like a log splitter or garden tiller. But your words make me think otherwise....

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
reply to post by Invariance

 

Population density would be my first guess. Breakdown in latrine discipline is my second.

When I hunt, we take time to dig a proper latrine, with a box of lime handy; we move the latrine every 3 days also. Plus, if a guy "misses," he is automatically on latrine duty as punishment.

Our ancestors (in the west) lived in small groups of < 300 people (i.e., the manorial system). Most mass effects for vermin and disease seem to kick in with groups of more than 500 congregating for weeks at a time.

Personally, I think there's a social vector. When not everyone knows you, you don't feel a personal obligation to clean up after yourself. If no one knows who made the mess, there is less stigma attached. And less stigma means no reason not to just leave it a wreck (and exporting disease).

I don't know about women's restrooms, but in the us, guys are pigs. There is an unwritten rule that no man will stand in a previous guy's urine. So sometimes you walk into a restroom, and the floor is wet, but dudes are peeing at a urinal 8 feet away! Of course they cannot hit it, but they aren't going to get dirty, "since it's already a mess anyway." Picture 10,000 soldiers who figure they may be about to die...

When discipline breaks down, as it does in transient communities of soldiers and refugees, that's when disease tends to escalate....

Well, that makes complete sense.. and for the record, I'd rather use the men's room than some "powder rooms" out there... it's the same "well, it's already a mess" Oi

Hopefully this won't be an issue for me and mine, we're part of a reenactment group and we have a plan to get together on a friend's farm.... FAR away from most everyone else. Hope it works if we have to go that way...

reply to post by fixer1967


Tell me what you think about this.
I have a mid eighties Honda lawnmower engine, maybe 6-7hp, and an alternator from an '81 blazer.
One of these days I'd like to try to to build another generator from these parts.
Assuming I keep any power inverter shielded, what are my chances of success, following these plans?
Generator from lawn mower engine

Appreciate the input,
Thanks.

Honestly, what would be there to power with said generator? Even your coffee maker has microchips. I could see things like old mechanical water pumps perhaps, maybe a lamp (IDK what an EMP would do to lightbulbs really..) an older sewing machine...

But really, think about it. What DOESN'T have a microchip in it these days?

reply to post by Invariance


Which of the components are you saying have micro-chips?
If one of the components has chips, it will be replaced.

Originally posted by Oaktree
reply to post by Invariance

 

Which of the components are you saying have micro-chips?
If one of the components has chips, it will be replaced.

What I mean is, what will you plug into the generator? Even coffee makers have electronic switches. I think you may have to check over everything you decide to plug in to the generator and modify them accordingly.

reply to post by Invariance


The generators provide power for the air tanks in the well, and the well pumps, in order to keep them pressurized.
That pressure provides water to the households.

As far as I understand, the entire system consists of a pressurized tank, and fixed magnet motor.

An emp would need to be powerful enough to re-polarize any magnets before I experience any damage, no?