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Chemtrail Hell...May 1st 2011...Part 1&2..Debunkers Move Along...

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posted on May, 2 2011 @ 07:43 PM
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and you can see the particles in the chemtrail kinda "disperse" with the winds. the long, narrow stripes will fade away into fat, "whispy" streaks. you can see little streaks coming off of the trails, mixing with the air. it's creepy. defintely man-made.

but thanks for all your help and advice debunkers. your deligent work will not be forgotten!




posted on May, 2 2011 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


you really have some issues with chemtrails dont ya? maybe the thought that maybe they are real is getting to you and drivin you a little crazy..so you go around preaching they arent til your fingers hurt



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


OK....let's roll the video....

...."home" movies (film, of course) of Paris and Berlin, in 1936!:



@ 1:30, a brief shot of the sky, to show the CONTRAILS. Yes, even then. The science is the same --- when high enough (where the air is extremely cold) and, even before jets. the piston-engined airplanes STILL burned petroleum fuels, so it's the same chemistry in the exhaust (THERE! That's your "chem"....H2O)....of course, not nearly as many airplanes, then.

AND....people were smart enough to film the scenery and buildings....the sky? They knew what it was....NOT some "evil plan" to do...what?? Whatever, the current crop of "chem" hoax believers believe in....it changes so fast, each time they get one "theory" dis-proven, they invent another.

The game "Whack-a-Mole" comes to mind......


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh, to add: Here's a gem! In that video, try to spot all the "UFOs"....those little black dots, that flit about on the screen, in some shots!

I mean....that is about how valid many "UFO" videos today, are. Anomalies, in the vid. (This case, old film...modern videotape, or digital? Other things...).


edit on 2 May 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by gdaub23
reply to post by _BoneZ_
 


i know the difference between a chem and a contrail...one disapates and the other sticks around for a awhile..i have seen them and know what they are when i do see them


True enough.. chemical spray would be denser than water vapor, it would dissipate quickly and if even visible at all, would be gone quickly.. these videos aren't chemtrails, but it won't matter.. people see what they want to see, there's no room for science for some people



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by gdaub23
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


you really have some issues with chemtrails dont ya? maybe the thought that maybe they are real is getting to you and drivin you a little crazy..so you go around preaching they arent til your fingers hurt



If they are real, it's unlikely you'd see them ( edit ) for very long .. and you'd also probably see them dropping in altitude before they whisped out of view ..
edit on 2-5-2011 by miniatus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by ICEKOHLD
 


Oh, please, please crack open a book on clouds, and meteorology....heck, try to find one from BEFORE 1900!!! Before airplanes were even invented!!!


...and you can see the particles in the chemtrail kinda "disperse" with the winds. the long, narrow stripes will fade away into fat, "whispy" streaks....



DO try to deny ignorance.....

MANY pictures of normal CIRRUS clouds. Feel free to browse at length....



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by ICEKOHLD
and you can see the particles in the chemtrail kinda "disperse" with the winds. the long, narrow stripes will fade away into fat, "whispy" streaks. you can see little streaks coming off of the trails, mixing with the air. it's creepy. defintely man-made.

but thanks for all your help and advice debunkers. your deligent work will not be forgotten!


Psst... all contrails are man made, just saying.. you know some planes also do fuel dumps, just throwing that out there.. but yes you'll see contrails swirl and move just as they are made.. chemical trails would disperse rapidly



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by miniatus
 


Good point - if they were real TPTB would have some better way of making them than highlighting them with huge trails of highly visible water vapour across the sky - just another piece of illogic for the faithful to rail against.

All the posters who say "I know what I see" don't bother to think about exactly what it is that they do see - YES they see a long white trail across the sky.

And that is ALL they see.

They do NOT see what is in it by way of chemical analysis (AFAIK no-one has a spectrgraphic eyeball fitted yet!!), they do NOT see aluminium, they do NOT see barium.

they DO see fluffy white stuff expanding to become cloud.

I cannot understand why they refuse to believe that something that expands into a cloud is actually a cloud itself in the first place??!!

edit on 2-5-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by gmac10001
a number of foreign agents that are in it like barium and calcium not to mention aluminum.

If there was any real spraying going on, those elements of barium and aluminum would be all over every single thing outside, everywhere. Anything and everything that sits under the sky all day would have these elements on them and anyone who believes that "chemtrails" are real can swab anything outside and have it tested in a lab to prove "chemtrails" once and for all.

But not one single chemtrailer is jumping at the chance to shut debunkers down. You all would rather believe your false fantasy then do some real and simple scientific testing to prove something once and for all.

So every sad.



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by ICEKOHLD
i work at the effing atlanta airport. i see thousands off planes a week.

Just because you work at an effing airport, doesn't make you an automatic expert in aviation and meteorology.



Originally posted by ICEKOHLD
what do you have against chemtrails?

Um, they're not real. It's a hoax. It's deliberate disinformation. It's deliberate fear-mongering.



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by gdaub23
DEBUNKERS MOVE ON..NO ROOM IN THE REAL WORLD FOR YOU..WAKE UP!!!

That's not gonna happen. If you don't want "debunkers" to debunk the hoax/disinformation called "chemtrails", then stop posting about them as if they're real and factual with zero scientific evidence.



Originally posted by gdaub23
i know the difference between a chem and a contrail

No you don't because one is real and the other is a made-up hoax.



Originally posted by gdaub23
one disapates and the other sticks around for a awhile

The contrail that dissipates is in warmer air than the one that sticks around. But guess what else sticks around? CLOUDS. Because clouds and contrails are, AGAIN, the same exact thing, period.



Originally posted by gdaub23
they are real whether what you say or not

They are not real whether you want to believe in them or not.



Originally posted by gdaub23
i see planes with their contrails and they almost immediately disappear and others that stick around and spread out and seem to last for hours at the same time!!!!

Because those planes are at different altitudes which would have different temperatures.

If contrails become "chemtrails" just because they hang around, then you HAVE to call clouds "chemtrails" as well because clouds hang around also.

Do you want to believe in the fear-mongering hoax of "chemtrails" so badly that you can't see past your own denial and realize that clouds are condensation and contrails are condensation? Clouds are contrails and contrails are clouds.







edit on 2-5-2011 by _BoneZ_ because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by gdaub23
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 

DEBUNKERS MOVE ON..NO ROOM IN THE REAL WORLD FOR YOU..WAKE UP!!!


i think this forum was specifically put into place for people that dont want to critisize or try to debunk everything...


You cannot dictate who can and cannot post on your thread. Anyone can post anywhere they want, as long as they post within the Terms and Conditions of Use. I suggest reading that along with We expect civility and decorum within all topics

Carry on to a debate that exists on over a zillion threads here......where every argument has been made over and over and over and over and over......
edit on May 2nd 2011 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 08:37 PM
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Look, I don't see a need for anyone to get bent about this. All I know is that with my own eyes I've seen jets whose "contrails" turn on and off to make a dashed line, jets that fired a black beam out in front of it (no it wasn't a shadow, I saw it fire and it had a slight back-kick), jets whose trails you could see easily but not the jet, "clouds" that formed from thick trails that had "knobs" on one side like a half-zipper, trails that go in curves, squares, Xs, and even face patterns. I've seen "orbs" (some at my video link, at about 4:30) going various directions and orbs that flat out disappeared before my eyes (one was right over my head, trailing something rectangular, and in the time it took to raise the camera to my eye it was all gone; no wind, no clouds).

People can tell me not to believe my lyin' eyes, they can tell me that at my ripe old age I still don't know what a normal cloud looks like, they can even fill a chalkboard with calculations that say the government would never lie or do psy ops in front of everyone (like 9/11). But I'm not insane, not stupid, wasn't born yesterday, and know what I saw.



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by gdaub23
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


you really have some issues with chemtrails dont ya? maybe the thought that maybe they are real is getting to you and drivin you a little crazy..so you go around preaching they arent til your fingers hurt


I work in aviation, and people like you falsely accusing me of being part of a evil conspiracy pisses me off.

I have worked on jet aircraft that have left persistent contrails from horizon to horizon in 1 direction that were still there an hour or 2 later when the a/c came back in the opposite direction leaving another contrail - that was in the late 1960's and early 1970's.

I live in a small country - we only had about 8 or 10 B737's at the time that flew that route, and when I became an apprentice aircraft mechanic in 1976 I worked on every single one of those aircraft.

as well as beign a mechanic I have worked in quality assurance, mainteance planning, and technical services - I have assessed maintenance programmes, engine performance, defect rates, mainteance proceures, material standards, repairs and modifications to aircraft.

so I know for an ABSOLUTE FACT that persistent contrails come from bog-standard passenger jet aircraft.

So when you say that persistent contrails are an evil conspiracy you are saying that I am part of that conspiracy....and I know as an ABSOLUTE FACT that that is not true.

I still work in aviation, although no longer as a mechanic. I have worked for a couple of airlines, for maintenance providers, and for the local national regulator, and I have never seen anything that supports the existence of chemtrails apart from unsupported assertions, bad science, lies, misinformation, crappy YT videos and stupidity.

edit on 2-5-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by SaberTruth
Look, I don't see a need for anyone to get bent about this.
.
.
.
they can even fill a chalkboard with calculations that say the government would never lie or do psy ops in front of everyone (like 9/11). But I'm not insane, not stupid, wasn't born yesterday, and know what I saw.



why is it no-one who beleives in chemtrails ever only believes in ONE silly conspiracy theory??

is it congenital?

Is it obligatory to believe everything going?



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by SaberTruth
Look, I don't see a need for anyone to get bent about this. All I know is that with my own eyes I've seen jets whose "contrails" turn on and off to make a dashed line, jets that fired a black beam out in front of it (no it wasn't a shadow, I saw it fire and it had a slight back-kick), jets whose trails you could see easily but not the jet, "clouds" that formed from thick trails that had "knobs" on one side like a half-zipper, trails that go in curves, squares, Xs, and even face patterns. I've seen "orbs" (some at my video link, at about 4:30) going various directions and orbs that flat out disappeared before my eyes (one was right over my head, trailing something rectangular, and in the time it took to raise the camera to my eye it was all gone; no wind, no clouds).

People can tell me not to believe my lyin' eyes, they can tell me that at my ripe old age I still don't know what a normal cloud looks like, they can even fill a chalkboard with calculations that say the government would never lie or do psy ops in front of everyone (like 9/11). But I'm not insane, not stupid, wasn't born yesterday, and know what I saw.


So these are all chemtrails you say? then why is it that there is no consitency, why is it that some days will have the X's and some days will have grids, if this was some global project going on don't you think there would be a plan as to how they would distribute these chemicals? not just random patterns on random days.. Ive seen what you would call "Chemtrails" 2 times in the last 3 months ever since i started watching the sky.. why only 2 days? wouldn't this project be planned out and consistent.. 2 days is hardly going to make a different imo.

Its at the point now where anything unusual in the sky is considered "chemtrails" and this is total crap. Believe what you want but have some common sense and logic about it. Its not that hard.
edit on 2-5-2011 by Maximus187 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 

okay, for the sake of science, let's say they are contrails.
One question: How come back between 1998 and 2000 I noticed for the first time a grid of
contrails overhead?



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 

I could ask similar rhetorical questions about people who feel the need to flame people for being skeptical of what the government and medial tell us, but clearly that would be a waste of time.



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by miniatus
 


Speaking of:


.. you know some planes also do fuel dumps...


To clarify....fuel is very expensive. So....dumping it overboard is NOT done willy-nilly. It is only for a reason. And, is very rare, indeed.

Furthermore....first, the reason. Larger jet airplanes have a different maximum take-off weight, than maximum landing weight. Jumbo jets, as a rule, have an even wider range of weights, there. The plumbing, pumps and switches to jettison fuel are not installed on ALL jets....generally, only on the "jumbos"...wide-bodies. Like, the B-747, 767, 777 and the new 787. Airbus, A-330/340, A-380. (Soo, the A-350, when it comes out). Douglas (now "Boeing") DC-10 (old) and MD-11 (newer). ETC...that is not a complete list....

So many popular airplanes, that make up a majority of many airlines' fleets...like the B-737 (all versions), the DC-9, DC-9-80 (MD-80 series, all versions) and the Airbus A-320/319/321.....to include, also the "RJ"s (Regional Jets)....CANNOT jettison fuel, in any way.

WHY "dump" fuel? Only for that extreme case when some sort of emergency, or just a simple mechanical problem that doesn't allow the flight to continue --- occurs just after take-off. SO, to return and land (when all that fuel was intended to be burned off, in the course of the flight)...it is jettisoned, to lower the weight, to "max landing weight".

Usually, this is done over unpopulated areas, if possible (depends on the situation....how URGENT is the return to landing? Is an engine on fire? THAT is "urgent"....for example).

Now......what does a "fuel dump" look like, from outside? Well, usually it is done at medium altitude, like 5,000 to 8,000 feet.

This video happened to be captured by a citizen, in New Jersey.....near the Final Approach course for one of the runways at Newark. This Continental B-777 suffered a fairly bad hydraulic fluid leak, right after take-off....so that the landing gear (hydraulically powered) could not be retracted. ALL of the fluid vented overboard....(Think of your car, and losing your brake fluid, and power steering fluid...)

They were determined to land "as soon as practical", and were jettisoning fuel right up until shortly before landing...of course, they terminated that dump before reaching the runway:



Did you see? The point where the dump (jettison) nozzles are located, on the trailing edge of the wings? Well outside the engine locations, by design...for reason.

Too bad....the videographer didn't pan aft, to show how quickly the fuel would atomize, and disappear....because, it does. Also, back to the reason for that flight's return? See the landing gear doors?? They are hanging open.....because, THAT is when the hydraulic leak occurred....when the crew selected the Gear Up....the doors opened (hydraulically)...and a line blew, and lost fluid. After that, no way to close the doors, anymore......


Condensation.....H2O (water), either in liquid droplets, or ice crystals. Different states of water, depends on temperature. Clouds.....most "fluffy" clouds, in warm air (above freezing)....water, liquid. Cirrus (and contrails) in very cold temps....ice crystals.


A humid day in Cleveland, Ohio. A different type of condensation, on a wing due to the compression/expansion of humid air, and aerodynamic effects. For contrails proper....due to engine exhaust....there is the added factor of the HEAT, the more extreme COMPRESSION (inside the engine)...and, the FUEL (which provides more chemicals, to make more H2O):




The type of view that I am most familiar with, of contrails. This time, a new A-380 Jumbo, filmed from the cockpit of a B-747, by that crew. Over....OVER....the South China Sea! So....you "chem"-trailers....just why are the so-called "chem"-trails being "sprayed" over the middle of an ocean???:





Free Ground School, for everyone. I usually charge by the hour.......






edit on 2 May 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by Maximus187So these are all chemtrails you say? then why is it that there is no consitency, why is it that some days will have the X's and some days will have grids, if this was some global project going on don't you think there would be a plan as to how they would distribute these chemicals? not just random patterns on random days.. Ive seen what you would call "Chemtrails" 2 times in the last 3 months ever since i started watching the sky.. why only 2 days? wouldn't this project be planned out and consistent.. 2 days is hardly going to make a different imo.

Its at the point now where anything unusual in the sky is considered "chemtrails" and this is total crap. Believe what you want but have some common sense and logic about it. Its not that hard.
edit on 2-5-2011 by Maximus187 because: (no reason given)


I did not say every line in the sky is a chemtrail. I only said that many of them do not behave like normal contrails, and that some of the jets fly patterns that no commercial jet would fly. I am making observations and being open to the very plausible likelihood that there is more going on over our heads than benign air traffic. One of the best ways for a fugitive to hide is in a crowd; in the same way, what better way to do weather modification or other "black ops" than among normal air traffic? And if there's a secret plan, it wouldn't be too secret if they told us about it after all.

The lack of consistency is thus not a problem, and the fact that perfect shapes such as Xs and squares can be formed without jets coming much too close to each other for commercial traffic (the trails all fade at the same rate so they were not laid down over a long period of time) tell me that there is cause for concern. I also know for a fact that the once-common deep blue skies I've seen all my life are extremely rare now; it's usually a grayish-white film or haze. Some believe the purpose of the chemtrails is to keep the sky coated with substances that not only allow weather modification but also change the properties of the atmosphere for either weaponizing or projection of holographic images. But speculation aside, I remain convinced that there is a definite program of some sort going on that involves the deliberate spraying of various chemicals into the atmosphere.




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