Chemtrail Hell...May 1st 2011...Part 1&2..Debunkers Move Along...

Originally posted by tallcool1
So - it's like Kimish said a few posts above. "They" are poisoning the air with their dastardly "chemtrails" in order to cause us some harm or make us docile or something. Yet "they" have to breathe the same poison air that we breathe so, obviously, "they" have a daily regimen of taking the "antidote" to the chemtrail poison that "they" are spraying on us. Once "they" are finished with "their" nefarious plans, "they" obviously will round up all of our bodies for disposal and then they'll begin the cleansing of the earth so they can grow crops again for their new world order or whatever...yup - sounds believable to me. No more debate from you debunkers.

exactly. and they have gotten so sneaky about it, they slip bits of antidote into they cousins drinks and mom's drinks at family reunions. They are heartless bastards and all, but nobody wants to kill mom.

Originally posted by Version100

Bernard Eastlund stated clearly in his patents that Aluminum, Barium, and similar metals suspended in the atmosphere would greatly increase the efficacy of a HAARP type system.

Really? Can you point out where he clearly states that?

The only one of Eastlund's patent claims that even mentions barium (I can't find any thing about any other metals) was that it would make it unnecessary to inject barium (he didn't mention any other materials).

It has also been proposed to release large clouds of barium in the magnetosphere so that photoionization will increase the cold plasma density, thereby producing electron precipitation through enhanced whistler-mode interactions.

However, in all of the above-mentioned approaches, the mechanisms involved in triggering the change in the trapped particle phenomena must be actually positioned within the affected zone, e.g., the magnetosphere, before they can be actuated to effect the desired change.

Source

Also, notice that the mention is of the magnetosphere and ionosphere. I don't know of any planes that fly that high. "Chemtrails" have nothing to do with Eastlund or HAARP.

Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by Version100

Bernard Eastlund stated clearly in his patents that Aluminum, Barium, and similar metals suspended in the atmosphere would greatly increase the efficacy of a HAARP type system.

Really? Can you point out where he clearly states that?

I think it might come from MathiasAndrew who deceptively and dishonestly linked the "HAARP" patent and the "Weisbach" barium contail device together as if they were in the same document in this post - www.abovetopsecret.com...

so now (I suspect) that has become the "new truth" for chemmies who have comprehension difficulties and are jsut following what their "leaders" have told them is true.

so have seen a new set of lies coming together as "chemtrail canon" right in front of us in the space of 2 months!

Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by Version100

Bernard Eastlund stated clearly in his patents that Aluminum, Barium, and similar metals suspended in the atmosphere would greatly increase the efficacy of a HAARP type system.

Really? Can you point out where he clearly states that?

No, over 50% of the patent's contents are not available online.

But in the available public material from patent #4,686,605 there is the
following statement:

"Transportation of entities can also be realized when advantage is taken of
drag effects caused by regions of the atmosphere moving up along diverging
field lines. Small micron sized particles can then be transported, and, under
certain circumstances and with the availability of sufficient energy, larger
particles or objects could be similarly affected."

"Particles with desired characteristics such as tackiness, reflectivity,
absorptivity, etc., can be transported for specific purposes or effects."

Barium and aluminum are both highly reflective to EM energy.

reply to post by Version100


The bits you quote seem to be talking about using the forc lines to TRANSPORT particles - not using the particles to amplify anything!

reply to post by Version100
Do you somehow have access to those portions of the patents which are not available online?

The patent suggests that "micron sized" particles could be dragged along by ion lifting in Eastlund's system. He talks about this effect being produced at an altitude of 115km as a result of the divergence of the magnetic lines of force in that region. Again, he is talking about the ionosphere, far too high for "chemtrails" to be involved. Apparently, below that the lines of force are more parallel and the effect would not be produced.

Another problem is that the system proposed by Eastlund is thousands of times more powerful than HAARP. He talks about energy densities of 1 to 10 watts per square centimeter being necessary to produce the lifting effect. HAARP can produce about 0.21 micro-watts per square centimeter at 100km, even less at 115km.

No, "chemtrails" would not "greatly increase the efficacy of a HAARP type system", nor does Eastlund claim they would. Indeed, if those barium and aluminum particles were "highly reflective" to EM energy wouldn't they tend to scatter the energy of HAARP's heater beam?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Version100

The patent suggests that "micron sized" particles could be dragged along by ion lifting in Eastlund's system. He talks about this effect being produced at an altitude of 115km as a result of the divergence of the magnetic lines of force in that region. Again, he is talking about the ionosphere, far too high for "chemtrails" to be involved. Apparently, below that the lines of force are more parallel and the effect would not be produced.

I would kindly suggest that you read the publicly available version of the patent, in the section
above my quote it states that effects can be manifested at many different levels in the atmosphere.

Not just the ionosphere and magnetosphere.

No, "chemtrails" would not "greatly increase the efficacy of a HAARP type system", nor does Eastlund claim they would. Indeed, if those barium and aluminum particles were "highly reflective" to EM energy wouldn't they tend to scatter the energy of HAARP's heater beam?

Reflective particles can be inserted into the beam path to steer it.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Version100

 

The bits you quote seem to be talking about using the forc lines to TRANSPORT particles - not using the particles to amplify anything!

Efficacy does not equate to amplify...

reply to post by Version100


And that doesn't equate to anything comprehensible at all.

did you have a point to make??

Originally posted by Version100

I would kindly suggest that you read the publicly available version of the patent, in the section
above my quote it states that effects can be manifested at many different levels in the atmosphere.

Not just the ionosphere and magnetosphere.

You mean this bit?

This invention has a phenomenal variety of possible ramifications and potential future developments. As alluded to earlier, missile or aircraft destruction, deflection, or confusion could result, particularly when relativistic particles are employed. Also, large regions of the atmosphere could be lifted to an unexpectedly high altitude so that missiles encounter unexpected and unplanned drag forces with resultant destruction or deflection of same. Weather modification is possible by, for example, altering upper atmosphere wind patterns or altering solar absorption patterns by constructing one or more plumes of atmospheric particles which will act as a lens or focusing device. Also as alluded to earlier, molecular modifications of the atmosphere can take place so that positive environmental effects can be achieved. Besides actually changing the molecular composition of an atmospheric region, a particular molecule or molecules can be chosen for increased presence. For example, ozone, nitrogen, etc. concentrations in the atmosphere could be artificially increased. Similarly, environmental enhancement could be achieved by causing the breakup of various chemical entities such as carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, nitrous oxides, and the like.

Looks like it's talking about things the inventor thinks MIGHT be possible...that is why he says "POSSIBLE ramifications and POTENTIAL future developments".

Sounds like an inventer trying to sell his idea to me - certainly he didn't have any experimetnal evidence to support such claims, and the nature of the stratosphere means that teh weather modification claims are just nonsense - it doesn't affect the lower layers of the atmosphere at all!!

.

reply to post by Version100

I have read the patent.

The lifting effect (of ions, which he claims would be able to drag larger particles upward) is stated to occur in the "R1" region, at an altitude of 115km

For example, if an electromagnetic energy flux of from about 1 to about 10 watts per square centimeter is applied to region R1, whose altitude is 115 km, a plasma having a density (Ne) of 1012 per cubic centimeter will be generated and moved upward to region R2 which has an altitude of about 1000 km. The movement of electrons in the plasma is due to the mirror force while the ions are moved by ambipolar diffusion (which results from the electrostatic field). This effectively "lifts" a layer of plasma 12 from the ionosphere and/or magnetosphere to a higher elevation R2.

Eastlund claims a minimum effective altitude for ionic heating of 50km. Far too high for "chemtrails". The conditions are not right in the troposphere and lower stratosphere for cyclotron resonance to occur. No where does he mention his method being effective at lower altitudes.

I claim:

1. A method for altering at least one region normally existing above the earth's surface with electromagnetic radiation using naturally-occurring and diverging magnetic field lines of the earth comprising transmitting first electromagnetic radiation at a frequency between 20 and 7200 kHz from the earth's surface, said transmitting being conducted essentially at the outset of transmission substantially parallel to and along at least one of said field lines, adjusting the frequency of said first radiation to a value which will excite electron cyclotron resonance at an initial elevation at least 50 km above the earth's surface, whereby in the region in which said electron cyclotron resonance takes place heating, further ionization, and movement of both charged and neutral particles is effected, said cyclotron resonance excitation of said region is continued until the electron concentration of said region reaches a value of at least 106 per cubic centimeter and has an ion energy of at least 2 ev.

Again, Eastlund's claims were based on a system thousands of times more powerful than HAARP. HAARP is not nearly capable of the level of ionospheric heating required by Eastlund and even if it were it is very doubtful that it would have any effect on weather (he was not a meteorologist). Weather occurs in the troposphere, 10s of kilometers below the level affected by Eastlund's heater.

A cloud of particles can steer a beam of electromagnetic energy? How so? Particles scatter energy. That is why the sky is blue.

even if it were it is very doubtful that it would have any effect on weather (he was not a meteorologist).

I never said anything about weather modification.

A cloud of particles can steer a beam of electromagnetic energy? How so? Particles scatter energy.

Mirror effect.
Inject particulates into the atmosphere, bounce beam off particle cloud.

That is why the sky is blue.

The sky is blue due to refraction not reflection.
The refractive index of water molecules in the atmosphere causes blue light to have greater dispersal.

reply to post by Version100

I never said anything about weather modification.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood this:

I would kindly suggest that you read the publicly available version of the patent, in the section
above my quote it states that effects can be manifested at many different levels in the atmosphere.

The "many different levels" seemed to include a discussion of possible weather effects.

Mirror effect.
Inject particulates into the atmosphere, bounce beam off particle cloud.

A cloud of particles is not like a mirror, it does not reflect electromagnetic radiation in any particular direction. Depending on the angle at which the radiation encounters each particle, it is reflected in a different direction. Are these "micron sized" particles flat? Are they all somehow managed to be aligned with each other? That's some high tech. It seems that if it worked that way they would also reflect light like a mirror does (aluminum is used for optical mirrors). But we don't see a reflection of the ground on "chemtrails", we see diffused white light because the light is scattered.

The sky is blue due to refraction not reflection.
The refractive index of water molecules in the atmosphere causes blue light to have greater dispersal.

I did not say the sky is blue because of reflection. The sky is blue due to Raleigh scattering. It has nothing to do with water vapor, if there were no water vapor our sky would still be blue. Particles, including molecules of air, scatter light (electromagnetic radiation). They diffuse it, they do not reflect it in any organized manner. The size of the particles determine the level at which various wavelengths are scattered. Because air molecules are so small, they predominantly scatter blue light.

But this is moot, Eastlund's patent does not say anything about barium or aluminum being injected into the troposphere in order to "steer" the heater beam, it refers to the particles in an entirely different context. "Chemtrails" have nothing to do with Eastlund or HAARP.

This is a conspiracy site, yet so many of you deny chem trails.
Believe whatever you want, but chem trails ARE used but we just don't know exactly all they are used for.

They started adding barium to facilitate military communications a long time ago and we all know that stuff is just not good for us. If they we're willing to do this, what stops them?

"TPTB don't consider the bulk of mankind as "themselves" but vermin, a cancer, slaves to be exploited. They certainly would pollute the planet and want most of us to die. They reserve for themselves antidotes, cures, seed vaults, bunkers, etc., and intend only to keep a few million slaves alive to serve them in their protected cities."

That's exactly the plan, deny ignorance and wake up.
Some of you seem like disinfo agents and Aloysius the Gaul, why did you complained to have one my previous post flagged has "off topic". I was saying you are disinfo. I can't be more right on topic.

Oh and mixing this with haarp is just a normal reaction since they both have weather modification proprieties, but I don't believe the chems are used has an extra catalyst.

Originally posted by User8911
This is a conspiracy site, yet so many of you deny chem trails.
Believe whatever you want, but chem trails ARE used but we just don't know exactly all they are used for.

do I have to believe in Bigfoot and Nessie too? why don't we know what they are used for, but "we" are CERTAIN they exist?

They started adding barium to facilitate military communications a long time ago and we all know that stuff is just not good for us. If they we're willing to do this, what stops them?

when did this happen? Is there any articles that you can offer as evidence of this claim?

"TPTB don't consider the bulk of mankind as "themselves" but vermin, a cancer, slaves to be exploited. They certainly would pollute the planet and want most of us to die. They reserve for themselves antidotes, cures, seed vaults, bunkers, etc., and intend only to keep a few million slaves alive to serve them in their protected cities."

How do you know this?

That's exactly the plan, deny ignorance and wake up.
Some of you seem like disinfo agents and Aloysius the Gaul, why did you complained to have one my previous post flagged has "off topic". I was saying you are disinfo. I can't be more right on topic.

Ahh, yes, anyone who disagrees with you is being paid by "them" to post "disinfo" in order to discredit the movement. It has nothing to do with common sense, science, or perception.

Oh and mixing this with haarp is just a normal reaction since they both have weather modification proprieties, but I don't believe the chems are used has an extra catalyst.

edit on 4-5-2011 by User8911 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-5-2011 by User8911 because: (no reason given)

so is it weather modification, mass culling, slow poisoning, geo-engineering, cloud seeding, or radio enhancement that is being done here. I am confused, and apparently so are a few others.

sorry, my name states it all
i dont think hes being payed, just dosent know.
he is walking on a stage hes not familliar with.
chem trails are real. wether there wepons to greatly increase HAARP wepons. (geoengineering)
or a soft kill method used in order for population controle.
there real. deny and throw your escuses at things that scare you.
if it pops you bubble of protective ignorance, youll gladly take a knife to it..
one more thing. it dosent take much to ship, deliver, market, and cover large amounts of *shadowy* stock
inside the U.S hell if MS13 can smuggle cocain through tunnles.
im sure the CIA can get alluminum.

Originally posted by Phage
[

Mirror effect.
Inject particulates into the atmosphere, bounce beam off particle cloud.

A cloud of particles is not like a mirror, it does not reflect electromagnetic radiation in any particular direction.

Irrespective of losses incurred, the majority of the beam can be predictably steered using reflective particulates.
I never said it was a model of efficiency, but it easier than stretching mylar across the sky..

The sky is blue due to refraction not reflection.
The refractive index of water molecules in the atmosphere causes blue light to have greater dispersal.

I did not say the sky is blue because of reflection. The sky is blue due to Raleigh scattering. It has nothing to do with water vapor, if there were no water vapor our sky would still be blue. Particles, including molecules of air, scatter light (electromagnetic radiation). They diffuse it, they do not reflect it in any organized manner. The size of the particles determine the level at which various wavelengths are scattered. Because air molecules are so small, they predominantly scatter blue light.

It's Rayleigh...

"because air molecules are so small they scatter blue light"
If that is the case then everything should be blue.

But this is moot, Eastlund's patent does not say anything about barium or aluminum being injected into the troposphere in order to "steer" the heater beam, it refers to the particles in an entirely different context. "Chemtrails" have nothing to do with Eastlund or HAARP.

I cannot provide you with the full patent.

But I can unequivocally say that there is far more contained in those patents
than you have been allowed to see.

Why would an "ionospheric heater" need DoD classification ?

I mean, it's just a radio... Right ????

Originally posted by gdaub23

DEBUNKERS MOVE ON..NO ROOM IN THE REAL WORLD FOR YOU..WAKE UP!!!

Excuse me, but if I wake up I won't be able to share this dream you have about "chemtrails".
--

Originally posted by Version100
Why would an "ionospheric heater" need DoD classification ?

I mean, it's just a radio... Right ????

It doesn't need classification and it isn't classified. But it is a bit more than "just a radio", it's a phased array transmitter.

The Invention Secrecy Act of 1951 requires the government to impose "secrecy orders" on certain patent applications that contain sensitive information, thereby restricting disclosure of the invention and withholding the grant of a patent. Remarkably, this requirement can be imposed even when the application is generated and entirely owned by a private individual or company without government sponsorship or support.

www.fas.org...

"Classified" patents are not granted at all. "Classified" inventions are not disclosed at all. Eastlund's patents are not classified. What we see online is the full patent.

Thank you for the spelling correction. I'm sure that since you know how to spell Rayleigh you also know why the effect causes the sky (and not "everything") to be blue.

Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by Version100
Why would an "ionospheric heater" need DoD classification ?

I mean, it's just a radio... Right ????

It doesn't need classification and it isn't classified. But it is a bit more than "just a radio", it's a phased array transmitter.

I worked on radio and radar systems.
"Phased array" just means multiple RF sources transmitting with varying waveform phases
depending on desired result.

AKA a radio...

"Classified" patents are not granted at all. "Classified" inventions are not disclosed at all. Eastlund's patents are not classified. What we see online is the full patent.

No one ever claimed the patent was classified, the capabilities of the system
are classified and thus the information in the patent pertaining to those
classified capabilities is not available.

There are 15 pages available online for the main patent #4,686,605...
The patent is 65 pages long, if not classified/redacted where are those pages ?