ESO Black Hole Caught Zapping Galaxy into Existence?

the idea put forward would be that the super massive black holes create the matter that eventually end up in galaxies.




i found this

Supermassive black holes may zap galaxies into existence from scratch, new observations suggest. Astronomers recently observed a peculiar large black hole that did not belong to a surrounding galaxy as expected. Until now, scientists thought that this black hole's host galaxy was merely shrouded in dust and rendered invisible to us. The black hole, designated HE0450-2958, is located about 5 billion light-years away from Earth. It is a type of supermassive black hole known as a quasar, which releases extremely bright jets of high-energy light.

daily here

so after a bit of searching i found this

Which come first, the supermassive black holes that frantically devour matter or the enormous galaxies where they reside? A brand new scenario has emerged from a recent set of outstanding observations of a black hole without a home: black holes may be “building” their own host galaxy. This could be the long-sought missing link to understanding why the masses of black holes are larger in galaxies that contain more stars.

“The ‘chicken and egg’ question of whether a galaxy or its black hole comes first is one of the most debated subjects in astrophysics today,” says lead author David Elbaz. “Our study suggests that supermassive black holes can trigger the formation of stars, thus ‘building’ their own host galaxies. This link could also explain why galaxies hosting larger black holes have more stars.”

ESO LINK

could black holes "create" the matter that eventually is recaptured and condensed into a disc or "glob" of matter?

Hence, the team have identified black hole jets as a possible driver of galaxy formation, which may also represent the long-sought missing link to understanding why the mass of black holes is larger in galaxies that contain more stars

so i think if energy = mass and vice versa
could the energy of a black hole really really be turned back into matter?
could black holes be the source of the material that surrounds them?
if anything can be powerful enough to convert matter to energy or energy to matter why not a super massive black hole?

jets from the poles of black holes are now know to contain iron and other complex materials
why instead of black holes just eating cant black holes create?

black holes may be the reason we have matter at all

so what comes first the super massive black hole of the matter around it?

xploder

Then I suddenly came back through the second light, or the Big Bang, hearing several more velvet booms. I rode the stream of consciousness back through all of creation, and what a ride it was! The superclusters of galaxies came through me with even more insights. I passed through the center of our galaxy, which is a black hole. Black holes are the great processors or recyclers of the universe. Do you know what is on the other side of a black hole? We are; our galaxy; which has been reprocessed from another universe.

From a near-death experience.

www.near-death.com...

Pretty interesting. I really wonder if we will ever find out what's up with the universe. Or if aliens like a billions years more advance than us will land and tell us that the universe was created so everyone has a place to shower before they die. Seems like a weird question, but if everything came from nothing, then what the heck is nothing?

So blackholes could be the key, Then there was light.

But besides the human mind, the universe is insane. Seems to have more imagination than us too.

Also the sheer distance is insane. Then we have black holes at the center of galaxies. And everything seems to exist so much longer than us as if to taunt us.

But black holes are pretty cool, mysterious vortexes that eat stuff via gravitational forces and squeezes it into a singularity. That's just bizzare in itself. Then you have the possibility that singularity created us. Ws the singularity and the energy output just a crazy black hole. Maybe all the matter and blackholes from a previous version of the universe, eventually it ate everything, turned into a massive singularity then it ran out of stuff to it so it started eating space itself until it created a negative environment where the positive charge eventually erupted back into.

But then where the heck did it all start! Like stuff needs to come from somewhere... even if it always existed, it still needs to eventually come into existence.

Elves.

This is a solution I had already postulated quite some time ago. However, it was merely a few simple little thoughts, not some grand theory that involved math and equations.

However - I simply thought about many of the concepts in "brane" theory, "M' theory, and the Holographic Principle. The idea that a collision between two branes would result in a massive explosion of energy seems a bit awkward to me.

I wondered, instead, if the result would be a singularity - or a series of singularities distributed geometrically along the collision. Black holes are an entropic enigma - presuming Hawking Radiation can be verified - small black holes will rapidly evaporate into an exponentially increasing 'explosion' until all mass is consumed. That said - a black-hole can be said to represent maximum entropy.

Now, I'm well aware that the observed phenomena involves super-massive black holes, not earth-sized black-holes that would burn as hot as a star in their final moments of evaporation.

Perhaps there is something different about the structure of these black holes that causes them to evaporate much more rapidly - a toroid (or doughnut) shaped black-hole may lose more of its inner-surface mass due to being in a zone where the effects of gravity are mitigated (having two bodies on either side of you 'pulling' in opposite directions).

We'll just have to wait until we can take better look-sees ourselves.

Thought..... How does a fully formed galaxy come to be at the edge of the expanding universe? Perhaps spit out by a Blackhole???
Some are innies and some are outties

Originally posted by XPLodER
so i think if energy = mass and vice versa
could the energy of a black hole really really be turned back into matter?
could black holes be the source of the material that surrounds them?
if anything can be powerful enough to convert matter to energy or energy to matter why not a super massive black hole?

The article isn't stating that black holes are creating matter. They might be inducing existing matter to form stars:

Earlier observations had shown that the companion galaxy is, in fact, under fire: the quasar is spewing a jet of highly energetic particles towards its companion, accompanied by a stream of fast-moving gas. The injection of matter and energy into the galaxy indicates that the quasar itself might be inducing the formation of stars and thereby creating its own host galaxy; in such a scenario, galaxies would have evolved from clouds of gas hit by the energetic jets emerging from quasars.

So by injecting matter and energy into a relatively homogeneous, cold dust cloud, it might be providing the catalyst needed to get the existing matter to coalesce into stars.

Originally posted by Tinman67
Thought..... How does a fully formed galaxy come to be at the edge of the expanding universe? Perhaps spit out by a Blackhole???
Some are innies and some are outties

astute observation
with black holes able to create the building blocks of galaxies including the heavy elements the evolution of the universe may be completly different than the supernova coalesing into other stars.
if galaxies were able to "create" matter mc2=e e=mc2 then all matter if reduced to its energy component at the black hole could if expelled at high energy and high speed be the source for material or matter for galaxy formation.

an interesting idea is that the big bang would no longer be nessecery to explain how galaxies formed in the early universe and each galaxy could form in its own reagion of space without the need for all matter to have come from one central explosion.

if the information encoded in light has been incorrectly interperated to show motion that does not exist
and if galaxies can "create" itself then there is no need for the big bang.

when we see the average distence between galaxies we can imagine that some galaxies would collide and join into one galaxy. but a galaxy that can feed and create itself would allow galaxies to form anywhere a super massive black hole is and independantly each black hole could form in relitive icolation with out the need for a central explosion.

this also has implications for supernova, if black holes are the source of matter in the heavy element range then we would not need large numbers of super nova to create the heavey matter required for the building blocks of stars.

im not saying that super nova dont create heavey elements, im saying that as black holes can create alot more heavey material than super nova and if this material is polerized by the motion of the jet,
star forming can occour.

this would be the mecanism that i favour for explaining the universe around us.

xploder

reply to post by nataylor

i understand the article is more focused on the star formation and the conditions that black holes contribute to star formation including material and eddies that allow star formation to occour.
the interesting idea is that energy is required to "kick start" or ignite the stars.
it is my beleif that the jets polerize the material ejected and allow a flow of energy through the polerized reigions that create the correct conditions for star formation
material
polerization
and energy

xploder

Just a thought that i will throw out there for all who may want to listen,


If a super massive black hole were said to exist,
how then can it be said to be sucking in all forms of matter and light / energy with absoultely no chance of escape, " due to its super massive " gravitational " pull,
and yet also be said to be spewing out streams of super bright light / energy.

A bit contradictary dont you think. ?????

Anyway, when i see and hear talk of a super massive black hole my mind immediately thinks of a Magnet,
yes a Magnet, a metal magnet will suffice for those who have little understanding of the concept that i am refferring too, " think of the iron fillings on the paper experiment".
and for those who have higher knowledge,
North and South Magnets and the Neutral Particles of Matter

Originally posted by Icanseeatoms
Just a thought that i will throw out there for all who may want to listen,


If a super massive black hole

were said to exist,
how then can it be said to be sucking in all forms of matter and light / energy with absoultely no chance of escape, " due to its super massive " gravitational " pull,
and yet also be said to be spewing out streams of super bright light / energy.

A bit contradictary dont you think. ?????

Black holes will consume anything within their event horizon (the radius of which varies with the mass of the black hole). Outside that, matter and light are free to escape. The material that orbits the black hole is compressed and accelerated to high velocities. Due to collisions, some of the matter will be ejected away from the black hole without getting sucked in to the point of the event horizon. And due to friction, this material becomes super-heated and releases electromagnetic radiation which, again because it is outside the event horizon, radiates away from the black hole.

reply to post by nataylor




Hello there Nataylor,

ahhh the event horizon, " outside of that is where matter and light are " free " to escape.

Yes all matter and light / energy are free, thank you for reminding us all


Icanseeatoms.

Following the KISS principle, a black hole is nothing more than a whirlpool in space, and thus it creates the same effect as a whirlpool in water, i.e. matter spirals into the black hole, spinning around it.

reply to post by XPLodER


Okay, so first Black Holes suck everything in with infinite gravity.

But then they were given accretion discs so they wouldn't suck everything in with their infinite gravity.

Now they spit matter back out.

LMAO, maybe it's time to admit that the idea of Black Holes is fundamentally wrong, and these phenomenon have other answers.

just wanted to post about this black hole matter, and that article linked in this reply.

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur

Then I suddenly came back through the second light, or the Big Bang, hearing several more velvet booms. I rode the stream of consciousness back through all of creation, and what a ride it was! The superclusters of galaxies came through me with even more insights. I passed through the center of our galaxy, which is a black hole. Black holes are the great processors or recyclers of the universe. Do you know what is on the other side of a black hole? We are; our galaxy; which has been reprocessed from another universe.

From a near-death experience.

www.near-death.com...

edit on 2/5/11 by AdamsMurmur because: (no reason given)

that was a long read, to make it to that quote. interesting read though. I bet there are tons of people that have interesting questions to his 'experience', yet there are no comments on that article. like a closed thread you can say. Like, read it and thats it. spit on your monitor for feeback - or dont. And what does that have to do with black holes, he refers to both black holes and earth as energy recyclers/processors. there is just too many questions to his article, that probably wont see the day of light.

Whoever 'godhead' is, he asked a lot of questions, is it TOO much to ask he ask who godhead is (or whoever owns the voice of that light). If that guy dude remembers the whole 'trip' is it too much to ask that he draw a few sketches, rather than post pics of a mushroom cloud, some galaxy, a globe,,,this might as well be fiction.

one thing interesting about the article, is 'there is another way but to die', so its back to the 'meditation-tech' ? year right, whats first, massaging my toes or ears??

facts today about these huge mind boggling objects/matters (haha) are so uncertain. especially when you cant trust science (refer to local corruptions and tricks). imo theres one thing that is for certain, as earth population is growing from 6 to 9 bill. people, sure that means more mouthes to feed, but somehow, that means more consciousness, all on this small planet. what effect would that have, assuming it means something (we cant just breed like rats and solve the problem with extermination?). Is there a reason/sub-plan for all this breeding ? Even if we take into account that KNOWLEDGE is best learned best by MISTAKES (sacrifice/collateral damage is like a big loss too..)

all those recommended books on his site, are they for free download with e-readers etc ? that would be sweet. probably they are not. More buyable facts!

'other side of a black hole' - thats just too funny. does he mean INside ? I suppose if a black hole sucked in earth, you'd be going quite fast and somehow get a big spanking when earth hits you in the back.

so are manking too clever or too stupid ? obviously we wil never stop thinking where did we COME FROM. Seems more tabu than where we're headed TO. maybe our minds are just too incomprehendable to manifest some thoughts. If we think of that chiken-or-the-egg-came-first we can stall, or like a sign saying 'whats on the oppisite side is a lie' and the other side: 'whats on the opposite side is the truth'. just mind tricks to stall us, there are tons of brain games to play with, confusing pictures that fool both eyes and brain etc. Probably it wont end, as even when 'eternity' is comprehensed, people start asking where do eternity come from.

cant scroll the tread on this forum, while posting, (thanks ats! i might make 15 posts inline cos of that lameness) ,so i guess that'll be it for now.

there so much BS out there anyway. who's next to post a near death experience..you ?? me? whatever im almost dead anyway,,or at least dying like the rest of you. Benedict died of 'terminal cancer' as he wrote, and also wrote:

"So I determined that this was really just between me and God. I had never really faced God before, or even dealt with God. I was not into any kind of spirituality at the time, but I began a journey into learning about spirituality and alternative healing. I set out to do all the reading I could and bone up on the subject, because I did not want to be surprised on the other side. So I started reading on various religions and philosophies. They were all very interesting, and gave hope that there was something on the other side."

ok, this sounds like the whole story is really a, story, later he says god is you...this is like fiction, novel, book. (and he does sell books dont he ?) . both my dad and granddad died of cancer, wish i knew this tip of drinking the 'river of life'. So, did he send all that life energy to his dead hospitalized body using wi-fi ? If there was ever any lesson to learn from his wicked story, wouldn't it be to meditate, find that 'zone' and drink river of life, tour the universe, ask some light some questions..? his age wasnt mentioned, but that NDE happened in 1982.

if the cancer was just GONE, how old is he now ? did he 'reincarnate' just yet, where did he go..

- like i said i cant read the thread while replying, so not much talk about black holes. will ATS get a grip, and fix this issue? probably not!

curious, how can one have that much pain that only pain in in your consciousness, what else is left, whats the point of that anyway? why not just die ?? Mr. Benedict obviously left out loads of sense. HE chose to reincarnate in his own body, after hearing a 'lesson' of intellect or so from the light. why wouldn't he pick a new body ? and are new bodies picked as fosters ? Like how could he pick anybodys body (like a toilet if its not vacant, its not an option anyway). and what if he chose not to go back to the old body, what would be his options ?

basically reincarnation roughly tells us, if our lives suck, we can kill ourselves, reincarnate some other place. can we time and plan this ? you heard of group suicides ? if i knew where im able to go, i might be gone by now

its now how i picture (relate) it according to Carl-Johan Calleman/Xia Lungold's stories. Who both talk about letting go, and yet expanding.

cancer is even a subject of itself, what causes it, who work for and against it etc.

to sum up, i view whatever the dilemma is, that there are obviously two sides

A: the way things develop, the best way, for all, etc.
B: humans that invervein with A, controlled by ego, who wish to benefit from being above others, hides truth etc.

could it be that the 'majority' of the souls/lives on earth will have the most powerful mind power ? that the richest people wil be minority, but trying to control the majority in 'materialistic' terms, trying to limit the rest ? Like too bad they couldn't press pause button on time.


I do think theres a point in that what we give, we receive, so be and stay positive (often a challenge!). Can the rich minority of this earth convince the majority to be bastards, i doubt it.

And HOW are we EVER going to face justice, if we are supposed to kiss and hug every damn traitor in the political systems, the coorporations, the clubs and the gangs. How are we ever going to hang (not that i say so) serial killers for crimes ? How will we ever know that we are not promoting them, or sending them off to reincarnate some other lovely place that surely doesnt need another bastard ? the people who has power and make stupid/evil decisions in our societies, when do the see the fair treatment of their doings, do they ever ? is it a crime to pursue revenge ?If revenge is so bad, why does it even exist....

How can any of you ever trust a journalist anymore ? im with a former journalist who knows the difference between 'western' journalism (which at first was oh so genuine). By now we both now it is NOT so. its a puppet show of a kind.

Look at animals, do you have pets ? wild animals, reptiles whatever? Maybe you dont, then go to the zoo of safari/savanne somewhere still available. LOOK! even fighting snow leopards kitties might looks like doing harm, but if you are truly an animal lover, you know that the most developed animals are quite an example to go by, they are pure loving! as in the maya prophecy all life ascend and so does animal life. You can even teach a spider to kiss. WHy some animals are meat-eaters and etc, im no bout to speak why is. But animals have all the properties that we have, they feel good and bad, they fear and look forward to, they are very little prone to boredom! they are tender beings taht are humble in the big picture, that only kill to survive. Its mind blowing how manking can get to 6-9 bill. people while animals kingdoms are destroyed week by week, everyday. Got to wonder where their souls go and feed what ?

I believe that the mayans are right about we are on a schedule in evolution, and contrary to others i find it more interesting to know where we're headed rather than where we're from, especially if we end up at the beginning (that would most likely explain a lot by then). - a circle is known doh.

that made me think of torture - the means of keping one alive and not dead, to feel pain. Gotta wonder who invented that, for entertainment, or literal punishment, its a splatter of pain scenarios, but its' roots are just as hard to understand that REAL experience only comes thru FAILURES.

the mayan date today (sets in your current date automatically)
www.mayanmajix.com...
(he exact sun signs aren't the same as other calendars although they looks quite alike)

for the YAYphone users, theres is an awesome app called 'maya 3d', comprehensive info, its really worth looking at for people interested in the evolution and the scale of the schedule we are on.

there seems to be an increase in looking at responsibility. you know, responsibility is about the one thing that people run away from, mostly cos of fear of this or that. the more social/common/community, the less responsibility. Many many say they take responsibility, and mostly everyone run away from it, its JUST words.

Hope for the better, still deserve the worst. We are no special beings (trying to forget the jante law here). We don't deserve much, were it to me, we should all leave this planet, let the animals thrive here without us, Possibly there's a better(or worse you can say) place where we fit much better in. I find it very very hard to believe that we have anything to be proud of yet, looking back in time at ancient monuments, writings etc. there is something that we cant grasp anymore, we are too uniform and black/white, having big problems as small as major/minorities, respect, health, and the present industry about smart phones is just a lame thing. who knows whats next, we all get hooked up to a smartphone and can lay in sofa all day long..? Dreams, dreams should be a sign that we are on a wrong path.

until someone sets up a way to meditate 'the right way' who are we to tell whats right from wrong, and whats here and there. Talk about a black hole, its in our brains and its getting bigger and bigger. At least i thought so, maybe this will change, like everything changes over 'time'.

this written on

9th wave (universal underworld)
7th heaven (3rd night)
sun sign Seed
tolkin date 12.19.18.8.4
date: 14/6/2011

if there is a universal way of behaving, its the everlasting 'treat others like you want to be treated', even that motto can disable enemies, or harm in general, in the most unharmful way. Everyone has a lesson yet to learn, Im sure when learning is done, one would know it is done. Like someone else said 'we are here to learn'.