Atheists Seek Chaplain Role in the Military

Originally posted by randomname
an atheist talking to wounded or dying soldiers on the battlefield is an excellent idea.

a dying soldier asks for a chaplain, with half his intestines out and scared beyond reason, and along comes the atheist:

soldier- " i'm scared of dying, help me"

atheist- " God doesn't exist, nobody can help you, you are going to die and rot, maggots and flies are going to eat your body. you'll never see anybody you love again and this one life, you just gave to your government, is going to end. you are going to cease to exist for all eternity, so your life was pointless. and eventually everyone you know is going to die, along with their memory of you."

soldier- "thanks, i feel much better now."

What's wrong with that?
It's the truth.
If a soldier can withstand being shot at daily, hearing things explode rapidly.
I'm sure he can withstand being told the truth, and the most likely end of his life journey.

Originally posted by LazerTron
I tend to be opposed to the concept of forced worship anyway.

Me too. But I no of no one in my country, Canada, who is forced to worship. Regarding this discussion, are soldiers in distress forced to see a Chaplain?

Originally posted by soleprobe

Originally posted by LazerTron
I tend to be opposed to the concept of forced worship anyway.

Me too. But I no of no one in my country, Canada, who is forced to worship. Regarding this discussion, are soldiers in distress forced to see a Chaplain?

No soldiers aren't...and you know that I was not implying that. My point was that I personally am against the idea of a god that expects worship...I was responding to someone who asked a personal question about me. However, while soldiers are not forced to see a chaplain, they should have someone that they can go to without being told that the problem is their lack of a god.

Originally posted by LazerTron
However, while soldiers are not forced to see a chaplain, they should have someone that they can go to without being told that the problem is their lack of a god.

They have psychologists, psychiatrists and councilors available for them …no? And I’ve never known the experts in those professions to refer to a “lack of god” as being a problem. In other words godless counsel is already available to them in abundance. Why should another profession be created with professionals running around in white coats with blue badges that say “Atheist”?

It shouldn't be. I've been arguing against atheist chaplains this entire thread.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Atheist (Without BELIEF in a deity)

So, I don't KNOW, but I BELIEVE that there isn't a God, but I do BELIEVE in a spiritual realm.

Actually..."atheist" translates as "negative god". It isn't a belief or non-belief in god (or a god or gods). It is an absolute. "Absolutely no god". But the only person that can absolutely know that there is no omniscient being...is an omniscient being! Transcendental, I know. But there ya go!

As far as the OP, what it sounds like to me is that they're making a statement and trying to drum up PR. I hope it works. And God be with them.

/TOA

Originally posted by The Old American
Actually..."atheist" translates as "negative god". It isn't a belief or non-belief in god (or a god or gods). It is an absolute. "Absolutely no god".

Atheism

a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Here is a VERY good video on agnosticism and atheism and how they relate to each other.- for those who are interested.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by The Old American
Actually..."atheist" translates as "negative god". It isn't a belief or non-belief in god (or a god or gods). It is an absolute. "Absolutely no god".

Atheism

a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Here is a VERY good video on agnosticism and atheism and how they relate to each other.- for those who are interested.

There's a problem with making such distinctions.

Yeah, so anyway, isn't it funny when people start insisting that other people's lives have been disproven by the dictionary or some other semantic game? I'd love to see how many heads would explode if an atheist tried to demonstrate that a religious person's faith was obviously a lie based on some goofy word puzzles.

PS: Some atheists do state that there are no gods. I am one of them, though I personally like many mystical and religious people and try not to rain on their parades. This is how I know that the vast majority of other atheists refuse to say there are no gods, to the extent that many seem to think strong atheism is just a myth perpetrated by the religious.

Originally posted by 547000
There's a problem with making such distinctions.

Maybe you have a problem with it. I do not.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
this is stupid
If atheists need a chaplain then that means they don't know what atheism is.

Organized Atheism coming to a neighbourhood near you!

How is organized atheism any better than organized religion?

This is why I chose to be an agnostic, because I actually have a brain

Respect, but I think I might have an idea where they are going with this. It should be pretty clear that having religious people paid for by the military is Unconstitutional unless they provided for every religion asked for even if it's only by one member.

However, while this tack could be taken by the atheists, they are choosing not to, which might be the less controversial route. I imagine it would be less a religious event as more like a way to simply congregate and not be the ridiculed minority for a small portion of time should they choose. A support group of sorts.

I'm neither an agnostic nor an atheist really, but take more of the Hitchens definition of anti-theism. I put this on par with black clubs or the like rather than aligning it with a religious organization.

Peace
KJ

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by 547000
There's a problem with making such distinctions.

Maybe you have a problem with it. I do not.

I figure most atheists harp about logic. But then logic reveals a little inconsistency, at least if you say you lack a belief and that is exempt from having a belief.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by The Old American
Actually..."atheist" translates as "negative god". It isn't a belief or non-belief in god (or a god or gods). It is an absolute. "Absolutely no god".

Atheism

a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Here is a VERY good video on agnosticism and atheism and how they relate to each other.- for those who are interested.

Interesting video, very informative. Defining labels, particularly religious and political labels can be quite difficult. Labels, or what you classify yourself as, can be complex or simple depending on the awareness and devotion/focus of thought put into the subject matter by the individual. That's why most tend to rely on generalizations to simplify in order to make it easier to identify certain "genres".

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by 547000
There's a problem with making such distinctions.

Maybe you have a problem with it. I do not.

I figure most atheists harp about logic. But then logic reveals a little inconsistency, at least if you say you lack a belief and that is exempt from having a belief.

That's like saying most religious people harp about Jesus. They really don't. It's just that the ones who do are louder. There's lots of perfectly normal atheists who don't have any interest in convincing anyone or debating anything. They don't 'harp about logic' -- in my experience, they harp about gardening, politics, movies -- the same stuff everybody else does. There are some people with chips on their shoulders out there for sure, but they're no more representative of normal atheists than Fred Phelps is of normal Christians.

As for the reasoning, I think you're making more of it than there is. It's just that if people went around saying they didn't believe in every little thing they don't believe in, they'd be speaking for infinity.

So most atheists don't see why they should specifically deny believing in gods any more than they specifically deny believing in an angel camping out in their living room.

Me, I just take it a step further, and say that even if technically speaking the angel could be there, I'm comfortable believing it is not, for the same reason I'm comfortable believing my chair is not going to suddenly disappear. I'm sure that every god I've ever heard about does not exist, and I'm not at all bothered by the same tiny probability they do that applies to the angel in the living room. Other gods I haven't heard about yet I would have to evaluate on an individual basis.

But I don't give a damn if people are religious. I like it, actually -- I think it can be interesting. I just want people to give up on the exclusivity clauses in it. Then I think it can be just fine, another form of human art or game or whatever. Just stop thinking other people have to believe too and everything could get a lot better, you know? Even as a strong atheist that's all I want, and I know many many others who agree with me.

I was a chaplain assistant in the US Army for five years. Everyone of faith had their chaplains ... even the quakers and the wiccans. However, Atheists don't have a faith and therefore have no need of a chaplain. Unless the Atheists are now claiming that atheism is a faith ....