Attorney: Cop used excessive force in IHOP melee

Attorney: Cop used excessive force in IHOP melee

www.ajc.com

An off-duty Atlanta police officer got into a scuffle with a woman and punched her in the face

The woman, Cynthia Freeman, was among four arrested in the 4 a.m. Sunday incident
Freeman was charged with obstruction of justice, criminal trespass and simple battery

It was not clear what started the melee, but Freeman said Wednesday she was speaking with her friend about nearby restaurant patrons who were dressed like Darth Vader from the Star Wars films before the off-duty APD officer approached

(visit the link for the full news article)

"No one would tell us why we were arrested, no one would tell us anything," she added. "And we wind up spending over 24 hours in jail."

Ok, firstly let me say that sh#% happens.... right?
Cops are only human, just like us and may lose their temper at times

However, the police force and perhaps even the president need to send a nationwide message condemning police brutality, imagine if that happened?

Secondly they should also condemn arresting people without telling them why and we all know this happens often

The cop is just human, however to have such an environment where the police force often defend such actions is not a good working environment where the employees(cops) have tazers, guns and batons.

So things like this happen, sure, but how to reduce it

1) The U.S. president condemns it
2) The U.S Presisent condemns arrests without informing the person being arrested why.

Just imagine if the president, or even internal affairs and the police release such a statement?

Imagine how much that would change

www.ajc.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Don't you think the woman was attacked first? Wasn't that the instigator? Another, and a lot of people probably won't agree but if all those people saw all that and had the same frame of mind, being that the woman was unjustly dealt with, all of those people could've over powered the few cops that were there, easily.

i could say a billion negitive things about cops right now but instead ill take positve aproach
no one should be put above civilian law
the cop should have got charged with the same charges.
if it was two ordinary civilians fighting they would have both gotten charged with the same ticket
but for some obviously bs reason cops aren't people
they are egos
trained to make fast decisions
that ultimatly will never affect them
i am against police
i am a fist
i am ready to throw punches to start a small revolution.
everyone in that ihop left with a rebel yell in thier throats it is all a matter of time before it comes out

reply to post by PunchingBag80


i was thinking the same thing i wanted to watch everyone beat the # out of those cops then they probably wont be so inclined to beat up civilians while they are off duty

I'm surprised they didn't confiscate the cameras.

Just have to see what happens. I predict the cop followed procedures will be the verdict.

Originally posted by PunchingBag80
Don't you think the woman was attacked first? Wasn't that the instigator? Another, and a lot of people probably won't agree but if all those people saw all that and had the same frame of mind, being that the woman was unjustly dealt with, all of those people could've over powered the few cops that were there, easily.

I don't disagree with you
I just wanted to start the thread playing devil's advocate while offering a solution

I can create the 5000th police brutality thread and condemn it with every inch of my soul
I've already done that in previous threads

I thought I would take a different approach this time, not give a pro-people rant and just offer a solution while showing understanding to those that might say the cop did his job as the thread progresses.

I think starting a thread this way may be more positive than not.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Obviously, the uniformed police officer is trying to deal with the person sitting in the booth. Clearly in the video, the second woman has her hand on the officer's shoulder grabbing it.

Mistake #1. You grabbed the officer's shoulder. It does not matter what the circumstances. You do not have the right to put your hands on a police officer.

So, the officer slaps at her with an open hand to get her off of him. She retaliates with a punch to his face. He retaliates with a punch and then she is arrested.

It seems to me the woman started the entire issue by putting her hands on the officer as the video clearly shows.

To provide a little perspective, if you read the article the woman's defense is she did not know he was a police officer. Meaning if she knew he was an officer she would not have assaulted him. Which is absolutely rediculous because the officer is clearly in uniform. That statement makes her entire defense, when considered with the video, completely void.

Maybe she should take a little more time to see who she is assaulting before she assaults someone.

reply to post by areyouserious2010


So.......I just want to be clear on this. When someone puts their hand on your shoulder, the legal and appropriate response it to open hand slap them across the face?

Not how I was taught. Im sick of blind cop defenders. He is bound by the same laws we are. If that action would not be appropriate if I did it, its not appropriate when he does it. He is not fighting with a huge scary armed man when the woman places a hand on his shoulder to get him to calm down. He is wrestling with another female whose crime was to be talking after he told her to shut up.

Adrenaline is not an excuse in this case. It is much more likely that he was already looking for a fight when he told them to shut up. No crime was being committed when he began the interaction with them, and his level of response all the way through is out of line.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I have no problem with the President coming out with a message about police brutality and looking for ways to reduce it. That won't happen because he won't toss away the police union vote as long as he thinks he has a shot at it.

I would rather have him write an executive order mandating Good Samaritan Laws whereby citizens could put a beat down on folks like those animals who beat the girl up in the McDonalds last week. Any citizen should be able to get engaged in those situations and respond with any force necessary to stop the incident and not be subject to either criminal or civil penality.

Lets do both.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Attorney: Cop used excessive force in IHOP melee

www.ajc.com

An off-duty Atlanta police officer got into a scuffle with a woman and punched her in the face

The woman, Cynthia Freeman, was among four arrested in the 4 a.m. Sunday incident
Freeman was charged with obstruction of justice, criminal trespass and simple battery

It was not clear what started the melee, but Freeman said Wednesday she was speaking with her friend about nearby restaurant patrons who were dressed like Darth Vader from the Star Wars films before the off-duty APD officer approached

(visit the link for the full news article)

After reading the linked article, it seems as if they actually didn't do anything and were arrested for nothing. The only thing I could imagine that could have happened is that one of the chicks said some key words that "triggered" the cop to arrest them regardless.

Ah, let me explain. Has anyone seen a stage hypnotist show, where he says magic words and then folks turn into frogs and ballerinas. Well, that so-called "stage hypnotist" had to first set the command to perform a certain action before he put his subjects on the stage for the audience to see. Once he gives the command, then they do what has been programmed in for them to do.

Same thing here. The girl said the trigger words “Wow, they got the helmet … they’ve got everything...", and BAM! She said the trigger word and the cop popped into action (I would imagine the trigger word here would probably be "everything", which is code for a secret alien organization).

That's the only way I see this happening. They "programmed" the cop, and then someone said the key words, and BAM! That's my theory.

When it comes down to it, after reading the article, you must admit that it looks like the chics did absolutely nothing wrong. And you also must admit that the cop didn't spring into action until she said the magical key words.

Originally posted by MegaCurious

After reading the linked article, it seems as if they actually didn't do anything and were arrested for nothing. The only thing I could imagine that could have happened is that one of the chicks said some key words that "triggered" the cop to arrest them regardless.

Or....the cop was just an authoritative jerk who expected "yes sirs" and "no sirs" from his upbringing and he tried to overstep his authority under the law by telling loud women from the north to "shut up" because he didnt like their style or loudness level. Some guys dont like lippy women. Some of those guys who dont like lippy women are cops with anger issues.

No matter, he was wrong the whole way though.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


First, it does not say why the officer was dealing with the first woman.

Second, look at the video again. She is not simply placing her hand on his shoulder in an attempt to calm the officer down. She is clearly grabbing the officer's shoulder with her right hand and pulling.

Thirdly, her defense is she did not know he was a police officer. Not, I was simply putting my hand on his shoulder to calm him down. It is in the article.

Lastly, the incident is being reviewed and judgment is being passed. If a person grabbed your shoulder first and you defended yourself, you would be exonerated. Especially after seeing video of such. But in your eyes the police officer should not be afforded such luxury.

And lets get one thing straight. NOTHING gives you the right to put your hands on a police officer. And it does not matter WHO you are. If she disagreed with why her friend was being arrested then her friend should have gone peacefully and she should have been an excellent witness when it went to court.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Police brutality is already condemned by eveyone.

The president speaking out against it would do nothing.

The police would still have to do their jobs and people would still incorrectly label incidents as police brutality, such as this and many others, which are mere uses of force.

The president could speak out against the police using force. But eveyone knows the police need to use force to conduct their job of enforcing the law. This is because there are some criminals that resort to violence. And that violence needs to be met with the appropriate amount of violence to overcome and apprehend.

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

First, it does not say why the officer was dealing with the first woman.

Yes, it does, the news report says they told the women to shut up. Why the cop then decided to try to forcibly pull someones bag from them is.................uncertain.

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
Second, look at the video again. She is not simply placing her hand on his shoulder in an attempt to calm the officer down. She is clearly grabbing the officer's shoulder with her right hand and pulling.

No, she isnt. She has her hand on his shoulder and if anything she is trying to push him back away from her friend and the bag in the lower right hand corner of the shot. Which does not justify an open hand slap to the face. She was in the right. Placing a hand on someone even to try to prevent them from assaulting your friend doesnt justify violence. It may be "assault" to touch another person, but YOU go try and open hand slap the next person who puts a hand on you even to restrain you and see how that goes in court.

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
Thirdly, her defense is she did not know he was a police officer. Not, I was simply putting my hand on his shoulder to calm him down. It is in the article.

I saw the video. Multiple times. She didnt deserve to be hit. I dont care if she DID know he was a cop, she didnt deserve to be hit for trying to prevent him from assaulting her friend. Not when the offense was not shutting up.

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
Lastly, the incident is being reviewed and judgment is being passed. If a person grabbed your shoulder first and you defended yourself, you would be exonerated. Especially after seeing video of such. But in your eyes the police officer should not be afforded such luxury.

You are correct. I am of the opinion he should NOT be exonerated. He should be suspended at the very least and sent to anger management. Optimally, someone who assault females for talking should be fired. If he is that hot headed, he should not be carrying a gun.

And I totally disagree with you that I would be exonerated in court for hitting someone who put their hand on my shoulder to keep me away from their friend. Bumping up against someone on a sidewalk may meet some liberal definition of "assault" but not all touching of another human being merits violent attack.

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
And lets get one thing straight. NOTHING gives you the right to put your hands on a police officer.

Good, I'll remember that if I ever see one having a heart attack and Im the only near enough to give CPR. And I'll remember that if I ever see one shot on the ground and Im the only near enough to put pressure on the wound.

You are being ridiculous. Are you a cop wanna be? You kind of sound like it, elevating them to demi-god status with the 'no touchy touchy" stuff. Cops are human beings hired to do a job, and if one is breaking the law in front of me, I WILL put my hands on him.

Maybe she was making fun of star wars and the cop is a big fan of the original trilogy... don't talk bad about star wars.

second.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


The "bag" you are speaking of is the first woman he was dealing with. You can clearly see her standing in the booth where she was once sitting at the end of the video.

Unfortunately, you do not take into consideration what happened before the video started rolling. It is a common mistake. Obviously, something happened to get everyone in an uproar in the first place. The only person that commented on what happened before the video started rolling was the woman that got arrested. So, you would believe her account of what happened above all else? That does not seem to reasonable.

What if an employee of the restaurant asked the woman to leave because she caused the uproar? What if she refused? Then she is tresspassing. So the officer is supposed to just let her sit there and continue fueling the uproar?

Unfortunately, I can not make you see something that you choose not to see. Look at both of her hands. She not only has her hands on the officer but she is pulling as well. Do not let your personal feelings and emotions blind you to what is contained in the video.

The police are not paid to be punching bags. Plain and simple. If you are going to use force on an officer, expect to have force used back.

You comments as me being a "cop wanna be" are noted. Again, it shows that instead of using reason and logic, you resort to personal attacks to try to draw the attention from the discussion at hand.

Wow, what a tough guy, he needs his teeth kicked in.

reply to post by areyouserious2010


Whatever. Her hand is not clenched. Its open palm down on his shoulder. Which is consistent with holding someone out from you, (a push) not a pull. It LOOKS like she is pulling because HE is surging inward towards the woman with the bag in the corner.

She is trying to keep him at bay not pull him in.

And the fact that you are accusing me of being too emotional is hilarious. I dont get that often, but its amusing to hear.

Edit to add,

And no, the comment on whether or not you are a cop wanna be is made out of curiosity. I know some cops, and they really dont tend to defend the bad behavior of other cops the way people who LONG to be cops do. I have also met a couple cop wanna be's who for various reasons did not make the cut, and they tend to be the ones who idolize and elevate ALL cops, good and bad, to some super human level.

So, out of curiosity I wanted to know if you wanted to be a cop. It would be another data point for my own little observational theory. It seems to hold true for soldiers too. Most of the military people I know take a very dim view of other troops abusing or murdering civilians, but oddly enough, a lot of people who have never been in the military, but who idolize the idea of being a soldier, have all sorts of excuses for the aberrant behavior of bad soldiers.

"NO ONE has the right to put there hand on a cop."

Why?????????????????????????????

I don't think I am alone in saying that under certain circumstances I will do more than put my hand on an "OFFICER OF THE LAW law law law law............(Echo)

Some examples of my right to do so...
1. Cop mishandling my children or the children of someone else.
2.Cop mishandling me or someone else in an unprofessional manner, meaning unnecessary abuse.
3 Cop attempting to steal from me or someone else.
4. Cop acting like a "douche bag" because he/ she is inebriated and brandishing their firearm in public, and or threatening the other citizens.

This list goes on and on and the fact that some people worship the very ground a cop walks on because they have "some" authority is absurd in the extreme.
People shouldn't be afraid to put an idiot in their place regardless of the badge, I have done my part before and came out clean on the other side, I will do it again if needed.