France and Italy in call to close EU borders in wake of Arab protests

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by spacedonk

 

I don't know the laws, but from what I have seen all these years, that's how things work.

The EU makes a general law, applicable to the EU, then the EU members have some time to change their own laws to make them compatible with the general law.

I went looking for more information (the EU site has all the laws in all the EU languages) and I found directive 2004/38/EC, on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States.

It says:

The Treaty allows restrictions to be placed on the right of free movement and residence on grounds of public policy, public security or public health.

So I guess it could happen, but they need a good excuse.

edit on 27/4/2011 by ArMaP because: (no reason given)

Thanks for your research, so it seems to be dictated by Maastrich and to me there is an easy loophole to just alter the conditions within that. In the UK we weren't even allowed a referendum on it at the time so it would be easy peasy to force such a change through...

Originally posted by ZXCVB
It late to close borders. Europe is already inhabited by moslems.

We already talked a little about the morals of letting immigrants in from countries where the EU powers have intervened in internal affairs with force. I would say all if not most for sure of people who reside in the EU have a bloody good right to be here. A lot for historic reasons if you look at colonisation by our forebears.

Moreover to me we are all people of the Earth, freedom of movement to all I say.

Originally posted by spacedonk

Originally posted by DuceizBack
CLOSE THE BORDERS
SAVE THE WHITE RACE!


Lawlz Joking, I know some idiot is probably going to say that though.

But seriously close the borders.

aren't you texans about to do that and declare independence from the union?!?

edit on 27-4-2011 by spacedonk because: needed a smiley

Yeah.
Because all texans want to separate from the rest of the country.

reply to post by DuceizBack


sorry i was being flippant!

Originally posted by ZXCVB
Europe is already inhabited by moslems.

And it has been that way for many centuries.

reply to post by coquine


ok well i hear you so can you explain me this

you said in an other post

hare it's not like that whoever turns class/social issue into religious issue is a dangerous fanatic. they don't do what you tell because they are muslim, but because they are poor, jealous and watch too much advertising on tv. anyway the theory in the op makes lots of sense; i thought at "children of men" in fact.

so they are poor and jalous and they look tv and they want the so great life you have but in the same time you tell us that your life is a hell and enough of watching this immigrant have nice apartments for free, the get their welfare,They all are driving very fancy cars, without having any declared income.

so who are jalous now ?

and you know as me this is a small population who fraud, the bigst part work, pay taxes, and work for the country...

listen that make no sens, you live in a difficult area, but all people there are not like you describe and i know many immigrant who suffer like you, i work for an association, how many young with degree without a job only because they are child of immigrant stuck in the ghetto,they are like you they are french but they are made understand that they are not... actually for you all immigrant are like that.. .there are many who work hard who do household work and poorly paid, many who respect our country but they are not respected, and many great people ...if you just take time to speak with them you will realize it you have a lot in common...but no it's much better to spread hate...and last thing if you want blame people, blame our governement who put this people in state of emergency, if people was equal on our country we will not have all this problem.

there is two side of story , and i hear yours, but life is not white or black is a lot of shade of gray, and you can not have in a side the poor french and the other side the evil immigrant... we all have our part to do, we are country and we should be united , We must stop making generalizations and work to make a better place.

we are all responsible, there is no excuse to spread hate.

reply to post by spacedonk


i don't deserve much, i m just a human as many others, we all came from the same roots.
in fact i m not angry against those people, i could say i understand them in a way, they are
scared, they want to be reassured and find somone to blame is the natural
way of human being. but when i said they have any excuse i mean we all have a responsibility
we all have rights and duties, and the first and to respect those rights and duties.
we live in an imperfect world, unfair and far from what we should live
we leave our lives in the hands of other humans to the finale does not respect our rights and do not make their duties .let us face our issues and promise answers that never come.
this is sad very sad .... human deserve much better then that.

Originally posted by pitchdragon
reply to post by coquine

 

ok well i hear you so can you explain me this

you said in an other post

hare it's not like that whoever turns class/social issue into religious issue is a dangerous fanatic. they don't do what you tell because they are muslim, but because they are poor, jealous and watch too much advertising on tv. anyway the theory in the op makes lots of sense; i thought at "children of men" in fact.

That is not a quote of mine. Someone else said it that is why it doesn't make sense with mine.
I do not see these people as jealous at all. (and they don't watch much tv. They stay outside in groups talking all day. The men on one side the women on the other, as is their culture)

Here they are not jealous at all, but they are distainful. They make fun of the french for being passive, and basically, letting themselves get walked on. They are not the "angry gangsta" type of thing people imagine in America. The kids had muslim parents that used brutality at any turn as they grew up (with good intent! They wanted their kids to be good and integrate) but then their kids became de-sensitized, so that they just laugh at anyone who doesn't use a heavy hand.

I do have some muslim friends and do know that a few are hardworking and honest. Our friend that has a garage, he says, he will never again hire an arab. He is from Tunisia. He has hired all his cousins, his family members, and it was a disaster. They would not come in when they were not feeling like it, they worked slowly, they stole, and eventually always ended up quitting because they found out they coul dhave MORE money unemployed.

How come the immigrants who are chinese, laotien, vietnamese, do not have the same problems being accepted?
They hold on strongly to their culture too, so we can't say they change to be french. BUT they have a different work ethic. I am accepted, why? because I know I can make more money if I stop working right now and live off of chomage, and I choose not to anyway. Because my ethics get in the way.
Culture clashes happen when a culture is very different on the issue of work, self discipline and community service.

Perhaps it is different here in the south? These young adult hang out in their sunglasses and expensive clothes, sitting on their Audis and BMW's with little purses on their shoulder. I worked for many years at a garage/convenience store right next an HLM. I got to know the caids, they are VERY powerful, and the kids search to emulate them rather than the hardworking tax paying french in their little cars, who are pushed aroudn by them.

So you get the new immigrant coming in who move in, take a look at this situation and choose who they want to be like. Even the Tunisian newcomers who are not criminals would be influenced by this situation as they move into the HLM.

But I want to make the point again-
The revolution in Tunisia was short and fairly non-violent, and the country is now going to start out differently with a freer government.... so why don't they stay there? (this in argument to the question of why these countries supported the uprising and then don't open their arms to immigrants flowing in)

edit on 27-4-2011 by coquine because: (no reason given)

reply to post by coquine


i told you there two side of story
i also hired french and it was also a disaster...

The revolution in Tunisia was short and fairly non-violent, and the country is now going to start out differently with a freer government.... so why don't they stay there? (this in argument to the question of why these countries supported the uprising and then don't open their arms to immigrants flowing in)

all these young tunisian come from rural area of Tunisia even in there o#ry they found nothing, they try their luck elsewhere,like make many french for exemple when they want move to USA, in the largest city in Tunisia people does not want to come to France or anywhere else besides,and we talk about 200 peoples who arrived in France ... it's not an invasion ...you know how many french has leave there country this years to try thiere luck in USA 5 431 and we don't call it invasion...

i don"t want argue more because you want blame them so do it...

what can i say more...good luck

reply to post by lifeissacred


This is a childish viewpoint, but what do you think would happen if the countries in Europe were going through revolutions and civil unrest and refugees started coming in droves to the Middle East and North African countries?

Originally posted by Drezden
reply to post by lifeissacred

 

This is a childish viewpoint, but what do you think would happen if the countries in Europe were going through revolutions and civil unrest and refugees started coming in droves to the Middle East and North African countries?

edit on 4/29/2011 by Drezden because: (no reason given)

That would NEVER happen.

They would move to the USA, Canada before they moved there.
I already asked a few friends from the UK[one from london EG, one from wolverhampton EG, and another one from london]

They said they would NEVER move there.
One is even arabic.

Denmark brings in stricter border...


Got to love the Scandinavians, no messing, no discussion at European level, just do it!

Denmark yesterday joined an increasing number of European countries seeking tighter border controls in an attempt to curb crime and illegal immigration. Finance Minister Claus Hjort Frederiksen said police and customs officials will use border stations for random checks on cars and passports, and increase the use of scanners designed to detect illegal immigrants hiding in vans. He said control booths will be erected at crossings to Germany and Sweden and in harbours and airports. Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

It looks like this renewal of full border control will be a fait accompli. The Danish seem to be getting around the Schengen agreement by saying the controls will be random not mandatory and are targeted at illegal immigrants from the 'Arab Spring'

and now its done

Europe moves to end passport-free travel in migrant row European interior ministers agree to 'radical revision' of Schengen amid fears of a flood of migrants from north Africa

Its happened. I expect some severe economic news in the next eight weeks on the back of this.

European nations moved to reverse decades of unfettered travel across the continent when a majority of EU governments agreed the need to reinstate national passport controls amid fears of a flood of immigrants fleeing the upheaval in north Africa. In a serious blow to one of the cornerstones of a united, integrated Europe, EU interior ministers embarked on a radical revision of the passport-free travel regime known as the Schengen system to allow the 26 participating governments to restore border controls. They also agreed to combat immigration by pressing for "readmission accords" with countries in the Middle East and north Africa to send refugees back to where they came from. The policy shift was pushed by France and Italy, who have been feuding and panicking in recent weeks over a small influx of refugees from Tunisia. But 15 of the 22 EU states which had signed up to Schengen supported the move, with only four resisting, according to officials and diplomats present. The issue will be discussed at a summit of EU prime ministers and presidents next month. But the "reforms" of the Schengen system also need to go through the European parliament, where there is likely to be strong resistance to empowering national governments to reinstate controls.

Not official news yet, but surely a done deal with 15 of 22 for the alterations.

Originally posted by lifeissacred
reply to post by spacedonk

 

You can't leave the UK without a passport, you can try and might not be asked for it if you take a ferry but you will definately have a hard time getting back into the UK or if you're stopped by the authorities anywhere in Europe.

Don't you guys in the UK have this new small EU identity card as an alternative to a passport for traveling in the EU?

Within the European Union, identity cards meeting a European standard can also be used by European citizens as a travel document in place of a passport.

en.wikipedia.org...

(looks like a drivers licence with your nationality written on the card)

I travel much between EU countries and I got me one of these last year, and it has been easy to use on airports for flying so far!

The best thing is that I don't need to carry a big and bulky passport around anymore - and I can use this new EU ID-card for traveling, buying airline tickets, and for banking business in the EU etc.

And they also work fine if there are some sudden heightened border control alerts between countries when crossing borders, if you're travling by car, bus or train (happened twice to me already lol!) or for Police controls where they want want to check your identity for whatever reason.

reply to post by Chevalerous


We aren't part of the Schegen agreement which allows non-restrictive travel throughout the countries signed up to the agreement, whilst an EU ID card would be useful whilst travelling around Europe (for security purposes etc) we cannot re-enter Britain without a valid passport.

Originally posted by lifeissacred
reply to post by Chevalerous

 

We aren't part of the Schegen agreement which allows non-restrictive travel throughout the countries signed up to the agreement, whilst an EU ID card would be useful whilst travelling around Europe (for security purposes etc) we cannot re-enter Britain without a valid passport.

Okey I see!

I didn't knew that you guys were not members of the Schengen agreement! - and I was too lazy to check!

Well, then I certainly understand that there could be some difficulties to re-enter Britain without a valid passport.

Could be some real crazy Kafka-ish situations occuring if you would need to enter your own country without a passport then - *Look mate, I'm British so please let me in, Im' tired and just want to go home - I unfortunately lost my passport somewhere at the Paris airport this morning after the check-in, but I'm British mate, I promise, can't you see I'm British huh?*

(Something similar to this has actually happened to me once a long time ago when I suddenly realised that I couldn't find my passport - after some time they found the passport on the plane, at my seat in that small pocket in front of you where they keep the small puke bags and the safety instructions lol!)

reply to post by Chevalerous


Stuck abroad.....What a horrible situation that must be.

I think it's a shame though, I'm not a big fan of the European Union but I was hoping at least having the EU would allow me the ability to travel freely, now they're even trying to curtail that right for the countries that are able to do so..

reply to post by spacedonk


It's not done yet, they only agreed on revising the Schengen Agreement, they didn't agree on the changes.

I think this will be discussed in June.

reply to post by lifeissacred


That's funny, my sisters went to London last year and they didn't need a passport, their ID cards (both still have the old Portuguese ID card, not the new one) were enough.