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Weight loss: the futility of the exercise

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posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:03 PM
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Weight loss: the futility of the exercise


This coming Sunday, tens of thousands of people will reach the culmination of months of hard training by running, and (hopefully) completing, the London Marathon. For them, the 26 miles 365 yards from Blackheath and Greenwich to The Mall will follow many hundreds of miles of slogging round streets and parks in preparation. At the end, there will be the satisfaction of an enormous achievement, a triumph of endurance over fatigue and, for many, a refusal to concede to painful legs and blistered feet. But for the vast majority, the one thing they won’t have achieved is significant weight loss.


That doesn't sound right. We all know how daunting of a task marathon training and completing can be. All that running would surely bring substantial weight loss...


Take this from the Runner’s World forums: ‘I am getting really upset that I’ve actually gained weight running 30-50 miles weekly. This is my first time training for a marathon. Prior to this, I always ran 15-20 miles a week, cycling, pilates classes, weights, etc. Since the training started I’ve had less time for other forms of exercise. I’ve put on almost 10 lbs in 4 months.’


That's just one person though...


On New Year’s Day I started training for the London Marathon and have since become your archetypal running bore, reeling off statistics about my state of body and mind to anyone who will listen. Come race day, April 17, I will have run for 107 consecutive days, totting up an average 45 miles a week and regularly clocking 15 miles or more in a single hit… I have yet to lose a single pound.


Still, anecdotal evidence doesn't really prove anything...

Effects of Different Doses of Physical Activity onCardiorespiratory Fitness Among Sedentary, Overweight or Obese Postmenopausal Women With Elevated Blood Pressure


Furthermore, we observed no changes in weight or body fat percentage


Does physical activity prevent weight gain--a systematic review.


re new methods to improve exercise adherence are found, the role of prescribed physical activity in prevention of weight gain remains modest.


Food intake and body composition in novice athletes during a training period to run a marathon.

After 18 months of training for a marathon, the male subjects lost 2.5 pounds and the female subjects lost 0.

Can someone explain to me why we're told to take the stairs, park a little further or be a little more active to lose/maintain weight when marathoners who run multiple miles on a daily basis for weeks on end can't even lose weight????

So many people, especially on this site, seem to think fat people just need to get up off their lazy ass to drop a few pounds and be healthy. Well, it doesn't work that way. I've written multiple posts and threads showing that a maintained caloric defecit (either through exercise or diet) doesn't do much for weight loss in the long term. And in the case of exercise, it doesn't do much in the short term either.

Here's a post I had in response to this thread www.abovetopsecret.com...


Obesity, and diabetes for that matter, is not a psychological disease...it is one that is driven by physiological responses to hormones. In other words, trying to exercise more or eat less just doesn't work because it doesn't address the root problem.

Stop calling people lazy and glutinous when you have no idea what you're talking about.


Obesity is a physiological disease. Telling fat people that they are lazy and are somehow mentally weak because they can't control the cravings or are too tired to get off the couch is inaccurate and insulting. Trying to conciously control the biologically governed system that is energy in/energy out will almost always end in failure.

Wild animals don't count calories. And they don't run around for no reason to stay lean. They simply react to what their body is telling them. When they're tired, they rest. When they're hungry, they eat. There is no conscious effort to maintain homeostasis...it just happens because that's what the body wants. We are no different.

Until you address the physiological malfunction, running for miles on end will do nothing and trying to control your energy balance against the will of your body will simply end in failure. This is nothing new. And it's been demonstrated exhaustingly in study after study...yet we're still telling our kids to go outside and play so as not to develop obesity.

Exercise all you want to maintain a healthy cardiovascular system...if you want (though marathoning may actually be CAUSING cardiovascular disease). But don't subject your joints and extremely heavy body to pavement pounding in hopes of losing that muffin top.




posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd

Obesity is a physiological disease.


does that explain why poor people are never fat ?

no, because obesity is a physiological reaction to the disease of being a mass consumer only.

some consumer don't get that reaction; granted.

weight loss, or the futility of being a rich slave
edit on 23-4-2011 by XmikaX because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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Are you....are. you...serious? I hope this is satire. If so, haha. But...if, inconceivably, it is not...

Are you REALLY telling us that exercising, burning calories and fat does not....um...burn fat? So..when I start a camp fire..it WON'T burn the wood right?

I went through a period where I was unable to exercise and food was available..I gained weight. I then moved and started eating less/healthier and getting out and being active and I. (Le gasp) LOST weight. Whodathunkit!?



When they're hungry, they eat. There is no conscious effort to maintain homeostasis...it just happens because that's what the body wants. We are no different.


Yes, yes, yes. We are VERY different. We don't regularly chase, stalk, ambush our prey, track it, fight with it, and then fight scavengers off. We don't travel miles to forage and find new territory or spend every minute of the day on our feet grazing. Animals do not have to exercise because their entire LIFE is very active. Many don't know when their next meal is. We go to the fridge and grab what we want.

Our body wants o retain as much fat as possible because we USED to be just like any animal and our meals were few and far between. We had to work for it. Our bodies have not evolved much beyond that point.
As long as we have readily available food we are not going to burn any calories unless we burn MORE than we take in. This is the very basis of exercise.

I mean.....REALLY!?!



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by XmikaX

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd

Obesity is a physiological disease.


does that explain why poor people are never fat ?


Well, if you'd do a little fact checking, you'd realize that poverty and obesity are positively correlated. So...not really sure where you're going with that.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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How depressing, god it's enough to make you tuck into a massive bar of chocolate. I know women who are overweight, who calorie count, do excercise classes and running. They never lose weight. Being overweight, even after pregnancy is seen as being lazy. Maybe more empahsis should be on what you eat.
All the time I've been running I have never lost weight or gone down a clothes size mind (and I've put alot of mileage in). My mate jokes that I should be like a stick but I'm not. After having kids though I have to say calorie counting was the only way the weight came off. Suppose there is no point exercising and if you are over eating.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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]reply to post by Taffygirl
 




As long as we have readily available food we are not going to burn any calories unless we burn MORE than we take in. This is the very basis of exercise.


Oh my, I am quoting myself.....Never thought that would happen.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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I've lost nearly 30 pounds, and kept it off, using Eat to Live. Plus, I have never felt better. Still losing, too, to the tune of 0.5-1.0 pounds per day. When I lost before by calorie-counting, it always came back. With this, it doesn't come back, not even when I go off the diet briefly (such as on a vacation).

Nothing else has ever worked so well. But I still exercise, because I don't know if you've seen a flabby skinny person, but it isn't pretty. Really nice-looking people are always well-toned.

Every single extra pound I ever had, I put on my own body by putting trash in my mouth. It's not a disease, it's me. It was eating when I was stressed or bored, not eating the right foods, being ignorant about nutrition. (I was never obese; just overweight enough to be really bothered by it.) I understand tired, too, because I struggled with extreme fatigue for 15 years before I found out I have Celiac's disease (now I am fine). The weight gain was still about what I put into my own mouth.

I have never seen an obese person who educated herself about nutrition, stay obese. Not unless he/she chose to.

You can call it a manifestation of mental illness (or emotional problems)... but not a disease. Sorry.

ETA: the crap in our food (such as high fructose corn syrup, just to name one) that our bodies can't process properly with our brains, is a HUGE culprit. You can't do anything about this crap except NOT EAT IT. Which is why an all-natural diet is working for me, I think!
edit on 23-4-2011 by Schkeptick because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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You can burn fat by gaining more lean muscle as I understand it. Moderate cardio is good for your heart and blood pressure, but an intense "300" style workout is what will burn the fat and sculpt you with lean muscle. Of course, if don't eat right, you won't gain muscle and you won't lose fat.
edit on 23-4-2011 by SmokeandShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd
 

Training for a marathon requires a significant lifestyle change; the training certainly improved their physical fitness and, importantly, promoted the strengthening of muscle. The runners must have gained muscle tissue and, as muscle is heavy (more dense than fat), muscle mass. If no weight loss or gain was recorded, I would guess that a runner lost fat and gained muscle which isn't weight loss, but is fat loss (what we REALLY want).


reply to post by Schkeptick
 

I have trouble accepting that losing 15-30 pounds per month is anywhere near healthy.
edit on 23-4-2011 by Johnmike because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-4-2011 by Johnmike because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by Schkeptick
 

I have trouble accepting that losing 15-30 pounds per month is anywhere near healthy.
edit on 23-4-2011 by Johnmike because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-4-2011 by Johnmike because: (no reason given)


It doesn't stay at that level.

I lost 20 pounds very quickly, then went off the diet while we moved and I went through finding out I had an autoimmune problem (I mentioned above). But I didn't gain the weight back.

I'm back on it, feeling fantastic, and losing weight very quickly again. But only because of the rapid change in nutrition. After the first 2 weeks it slows down to a normal pace (2 pounds or less per week).
edit on 23-4-2011 by Schkeptick because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by kylioneXsushi
Are you....are. you...serious? I hope this is satire. If so, haha. But...if, inconceivably, it is not...


Yes. Completely serious. No satire here.


Are you REALLY telling us that exercising, burning calories and fat does not....um...burn fat?


Remember, exercise burns calories...not neccesarily fat. In fact, most you burn more fat calories at rest than when exercising heavily.


I went through a period where I was unable to exercise and food was available..I gained weight. I then moved and started eating less/healthier and getting out and being active and I. (Le gasp) LOST weight. Whodathunkit!?


That's great. Congrats on your weight loss success. I hope you can maintain it.


Yes, yes, yes. We are VERY different. We don't regularly chase, stalk, ambush our prey, track it, fight with it, and then fight scavengers off. We don't travel miles to forage and find new territory or spend every minute of the day on our feet grazing. Animals do not have to exercise because their entire LIFE is very active. Many don't know when their next meal is. We go to the fridge and grab what we want.


You really are missing some key parts in the OP. Like, perhaps, the part where running 25 miles in one week for weeks on end results in WEIGHT GAIN. And many animals will spend a few hours hunting down prey and then the next few days lounging around. You're also forgetting those animals that are relatively sedentary.


Our body wants o retain as much fat as possible because we USED to be just like any animal and our meals were few and far between.


Too bad that's not how fat metabolism works. There are studies that date back 80 years in which animals are fed a natural diet ad libitum (meaning at will) and maintain weight stability. That's quite a ridiculous assertion to assume any animal/human will retain fat if sedentary and if food is readily available.


As long as we have readily available food we are not going to burn any calories unless we burn MORE than we take in.


And what I'm telling you is energy in/ energy out (thermodynamics) is not a consciously controlled action. Weight loss certainly is the result of a caloric defecit. However, saying a caloric defecit causes weight loss is tautological...because weight loss IS caloric defecit. It's just repeating the same thing.

When you ask the questions Why and How...you begin to realize that it's more than just eating less or exercising more. And it explains why simply exercising doesn't work.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by SmokeandShadow
You can burn fat by gaining more lean muscle as I understand it.


That's what they say. But, if that's the case, why doesn't the muscle you already have burn the extra fat? It's a nice theory...but the numbers don't add up, honestly.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by Johnmike
 


The problem is, however, that in these studies...body fat % didn't decrease. Of course fat loss is the key, not weight loss. But, honestly, even if fat wasn't lost, other tissue should have been sacrificed if a caloric defecit was maintained. And we're talking about marathon training....



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Schkeptick

I have never seen an obese person who educated herself about nutrition, stay obese. Not unless he/she chose to.



I've seen obese dietitians/nutritionists. Hell, I see overweight personal trainers all the time.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by kylioneXsushi
 


It doesnt burn calories like people think. Its a complex system. To begin with there is a difference in metabolisms and brown fat distribution. Male has more brown fat. This means physical activity for the average, with a healthy metabolism will loose weight from more excercise. Women, are hard wired differently, and gain weight from pregnancies, also genetically they need to look after dependents, and so their systems are slowed down with metabolism issues for long term survival during tough times.

Over excercise, and this is what working out for a marathon or Iron Man contest really amounts to, like fad diets and fasting, create a condition in your body, where it goes into survival mode, and will literally close off access to fat reserves. Those reserves are more available during adoselence and pregnancy, but otherwise, you go into an opposite.

Note this overdoing it or extreme.

So, say, after a fast or extreme excersise, large amounts of the population actually will gain weight faster on the same amount of calories and that becomes programmed in your hypothalamus.

Moderate excercise, 30 min a day or 40, 4 times a week, a variety of activities, and eating healthy, ie. no less than 1500 calories for most people to over 2000 depending on excercise, taking in the right combos of food, including real fat, ie. coconut oil, and butter, which your body needs and avoiding their factory produced poisons and high protein diet with fruits and vegetables, gets better results.

And also, going for toning and health versus the twiggy look.
edit on 23-4-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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So many people are confusing cause and effect. Correlation does not equal causation.

Obese people, in general, are not obese because they're glutinous and lazy.

Obese people, in general, are lazy and glutinous because they're obese.

When your begin the metabolic process that diverts calories away from tissues that need them and into the fat cells, the body begins to starve at the cellular level. Metabolism slows down, body heat is reduced, laziness ensues and hunger increases. This is biochemistry 101 that has been known since the 30's.

Trying to burn more calories by exercising more doesn't address the root metabolic problem. So...exercising will simply make an obese person more tired and more hungry.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by kylioneXsushi
 



So, say, after a fast or extreme excersise, large amounts of the population actually will gain weight faster on the same amount of calories and that becomes programmed in your hypothalamus.



It's an interesting subject, honestly. It's pretty obvious that the subsequent weight gain is compensatory in nature...but there are some different ideas as to why. There's the idea of homeostasis. The idea of a body-fat set point in which fat acts like an independent organism with intent to maintain it's structure through the use of hormones (leptin).

What is clear, however, is a caloric defecits alone for obesity treatment, eithe through exercise or diet, doesn't work in the long term. The metabolic dysfunction must be address, lest the fat be put back on when returning to caloric balance.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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Yes you may be gaining muscle and it is 2 or 3 times heavier then fat. Muscle also burns calories by increasing your metabolizsm.

People are all different when it comes to this topic. Genes play a big part in our physical make up this much has been proven. When you factor in a laid back life style, an aboundance of cheap food, and the choices we make. Lazziness seems to be the least of the problems main cause. Some medications people have to take may cause weight gain as well.

Just exerciseing maybe enough for one person but not another.

Some people may need to do a combination of things to get the effects they want.

. exercise
. diet
. motovation
. medication
. even surgery

I don't think anyone wants to be over weight. Most people either can't help it or are not educated enough to do something about it.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Idotwhat
Muscle also burns calories by increasing your metabolizsm.


You really should look into those numbers. It's nothing substantial. Robert Wolfe, professor of Biochemistry at the University of Texas, says one pound of skeletal muscle will increase the metabolic rate by about 6 calories per day (1). That's extremely miniscule. For some reason, there's a myth floating around that every pound of muscle in the body burns something like 60 calories a day. That's a pretty ridiculous number considering the muscles alone, if true, would burn way more than the RMR and nobody would ever gain weight.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 02:59 PM
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While I can not claim to know enough to say if working out help you lose weight - it does get rid of the fat, anyone who has done serious weight training from a big weight can tell you that you gain muscle and lose fat fast.

But muscle is heavier than fat - so I am not going to try and say it will make you lose weight, but it will help you tone up, be stronger, feel better and lose the fat. It wouldnt supprise me if running etc didnt make you lose weight but id be stunned if they said it didnt burn fat.







 
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