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Reduction in chemtrails, are they done?

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posted on Apr, 25 2011 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


As usual the robotic stock replies dodge all of the important points and focus on non issues.

Cohen's work Clouds of Secrecy simply shows historical arrogance and a non caring attitude for those it affected as does the years and years of nuclear testing. Despite the 'national security' reasons often sited for such work of which I'm not blind to, we still can see people are often sacrificed and used as guniea pigs for special interests so let's not pretend it's otherwise. It took years and alot of hard work to get these programs out in the open, I have little doubt it will be the same for ongoing ones of today.

The constant cloud creating and seeding programs we witness and you and your bunkster pal's denial of them and attempts to downplay and marginalize them seems little different to what we would have seen in past programs. Just my opinion, but I honestly belive there are people here who have a 'professional' interest in downplaying these programs, possibly due to their affiliation with the military but I'll just leave that as speculation for now.

I don't claim barium and aluminum and other metals are used wide scale in these efforts, I admit I don't know, but I do find it plausible from some of the test results posted on various websites that they may be a PART of such efforts. Much of the efforts could simply be adding more carbon based particles for cloud creation, we may be seeing simply such things as dry ice etc. techniques that may be somewhat innocous and hard to test for. I do agree there needs to be much more testing and if any of this stuff is coming down in large degrees wide scale testing should be more able to locate it. And I also agree there needs to be a large scale effort to attempt to collect upper atmospher actual samples since we can't count on those involved in any covery programs for obvious reasons to do that for us any more than we could count on it decades ago in the opne air tests. Not gonna happen.

I made the analogy one time of watching cars driving on the highway leaving only tiny vapor trails from their exhausts during the winter for hundreds of miles and then suddenly coming upon a stretch of highway where people started driving off the shoulders and right at each other in the wrong lane, across the medians etc. in the grass, all the while their cars put out huge trails of billowing blue white smoke. There is no way I could ever relate this to you or anyone other than to people who had witnessed it, they could just say 'prove it', it's all 'normal traffic' how could you tell' etc. etc. but for those who know reasonably 'normal' driving habits and patterns one could easily see it wasn't normal. Now obviously when you read this you can plausibly deny what I find obvious by saying yes it's all 'normal' in the sky, I can't tell, it's just a difference in altitude, yada yada, and that's fine. However I know from years of observing where I live these operations are some type of intentional seeding efforts so I don't try and waste much time convincing you bunksters, I simply relate to others wanting to do their own homework and observations as I know once they look and research for awhile it will become UNMISTAKABLY obvious to them, even though I know it can't be smoking gun 'proven' settting here at my keyboard and I've never suggested otherwise. In the end people will HAVE to do their own homework and groundwork, I don't want them to take my word OR yours. And the very wise and astute won't anyway THEY will learn and decide for themsleves. I'm counting on it and as it should be.




posted on Apr, 25 2011 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by Tecumte
 


you realy have a problem comprehending the idea that evidence of past wrongdoings is simply not evidence of current ones, don't you.

you think I'm robotic? come on dude - your repetitive ramblings on a these are old hat, predictable, and, repeating myself, repetitive.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it as often as you keep up with this junk - evidence of past wrongdoings can and should make you suspicious. But suspicion is not evidence, and confusing the 2 is a major mistake.

Sorry that you think only robots can hold a different opinion from you, and sorry that you have to label people as robots for repeating real, proveable, facts to you.

But that's the way it is - the science hasn't changed, so the scientific answers are always going to be the same unelss you can show some reason why the science needs to change.

It is only the story of chemtrails that has to change - each time it is shot down, each time it is shown to be nonsense, it has to come up with a new raison d'etre, or a new proponent who hasn't had his/her belief's shot to pieces.



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Tecumte
 


you realy have a problem comprehending the idea that evidence of past wrongdoings is simply not evidence of current ones, don't you.

you think I'm robotic? come on dude - your repetitive ramblings on a these are old hat, predictable, and, repeating myself, repetitive.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it as often as you keep up with this junk - evidence of past wrongdoings can and should make you suspicious. But suspicion is not evidence, and confusing the 2 is a major mistake.

Sorry that you think only robots can hold a different opinion from you, and sorry that you have to label people as robots for repeating real, proveable, facts to you.

But that's the way it is - the science hasn't changed, so the scientific answers are always going to be the same unelss you can show some reason why the science needs to change.

It is only the story of chemtrails that has to change - each time it is shot down, each time it is shown to be nonsense, it has to come up with a new raison d'etre, or a new proponent who hasn't had his/her belief's shot to pieces.





No, I really have no problem "comprehending the idea that evidence of past wrongdoings is simply not evidence of current ones". People can and do sometimes change on a personal level, a bit harder though for entrenched organizational interests.

But I do believe an object in motion generally continues onward unless it is acted on in SOME way, and sorry I'm just not convinced with the "full spectrum dominance' ideology and the admitted 'we have no regrets for any of the testing and we would do it all over again' type thinking expressed in 'Clouds of Secrecy" that absent a mass spiritual awakening or religious conversion in the military that things are any different today. In fact I think it is quite likely they have simply evolved and escalated and attempts at secrecy and psyops if anything has increased in response to the open informaton sharing of the internet.

But we're still just going round and round, not much being 'proven' at this point either way as regards to what is actually happening concerning weather modification and atmospheric engineering only ideas of what is plausible and has already been covered in many white papers and being widely discussed in many circles. But much more information is making the rounds and reaching a wider area, people are becoming quite interested and looking and that's a start. And weather/climate modification has never been shown to be 'nonsnse' as you falsley conclude, quite the contrary it looks more plausible every day, you're simply deluding yourself if you think you have in any way shown that.

I will concur with you though that citizens need to follow up their observations with massive sample analysis,, assuming these methods are being used, even in part (metallic or chemically based weather mod. methods on a wide scale), then they should be detectable, and this is where people who have an interest really need to start focusing. The information is still coming in, I think as more people become aware and interested, these programs will be outed just as their predecessors were. Time will tell.



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 09:43 AM
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There IS ongoing testing. I work for an environmental company, who does this sort of testing ALL THE TIME.

Here is a list of just the top 200 environmental companies. This is what they do, among other things. An example from one companies site of what they do:

Site Investigation and Forensics - Sediment Investigation, Feasibility Study, Design / Waterway Restoration - Due Diligence Evaluations, etc.

Due diligence, i.e. they continue to check the status of soil and groundwater, to make certain they are within standards. They test at sites not only all throughout the city, but in parks, landfills, government sites, forests, etc. How accurate are their tests? Incredibly accurate, using state of the art equipment. Companies cannot afford to give out incorrect information. What do they look for? For due diligence tests, they look for all major nutrients, minor and secondary as well, including magnesium, copper, boron, aluminum, etc.

If spraying was done in the AMOUNTS and LENGTH of time you people claim it is, these chemicals would stand out like a shining beacon in these tests. It would raise all sorts of red flags - environmental companies would report this to the clients they work for - that they had dangerous levels of chemicals in their soil. This is not happening! Because the chemicals are NOT THERE!

Why don't some of you chemtrail believers refute this with some logic? I've still not heard a single argument against the ongoing testing that happens in every major city, every day, across the nation. Why isn't anything showing up? Stop producing pictures of planes spewing white stuff, or contrails in the air - we already know this happens. Taking a picture of a heavy traffic route and claiming it's some super-secret government entity trying to kill us just doesn't cut it. Provide PROOF. Since you are claiming they are spraying us with chemicals, then FIND the chemicals. Heck, if they are spraying all day for days, it should be everywhere! So show us the actual proof, instead of directing us to youtube videos, as if this proves a thing.



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by firepilot



Originally posted by Iwinder
Thanks for the reply there BoneZ but you neglected or forgot to address my question of " where these elevated levels" of barium and aluminum are originating from?


What elevated levels? Tell us exactly, and what typical levels would be.


First off you better ask BoneZ that question as he was the one that mentioned elevated levels of Barium and Aluminum.
If you have the time read this site through all the way.....(it will probably take you quite some time) and yes I read one of your earlier posts that you mentioned this site in.
All you need to know with links included are in his site.
If that does not inform you to your liking hit the old Google trail.
Happy reading there firepilot.
Regards, Iwinder

Oops forgot to add the link.
www.carnicom.com...
Regards, Iwinder
edit on 26-4-2011 by Iwinder because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by Iwinder

First off you better ask BoneZ that question as he was the one that mentioned elevated levels of Barium and Aluminum.
If you have the time read this site through all the way.....(it will probably take you quite some time) and yes I read one of your earlier posts that you mentioned this site in.
All you need to know with links included are in his site.
If that does not inform you to your liking hit the old Google trail.
Happy reading there firepilot.
Regards, Iwinder

Oops forgot to add the link.
www.carnicom.com...
Regards, Iwinder
edit on 26-4-2011 by Iwinder because: (no reason given)


I was wanting it in you own words, not a link to websites main page. If you make a claim, then back it up, rather than tell people to go find it on their own

The reason is I want to understand your level of comprehensionof your claim about elevated levels or barium and aluminum. So, if I can, can you list what would be an average level, what they found, and if what they found links back to aviation

edit on 26-4-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-4-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by Iwinder

First off you better ask BoneZ that question as he was the one that mentioned elevated levels of Barium and Aluminum.
If you have the time read this site through all the way.....(it will probably take you quite some time) and yes I read one of your earlier posts that you mentioned this site in.
All you need to know with links included are in his site.
If that does not inform you to your liking hit the old Google trail.
Happy reading there firepilot.
Regards, Iwinder

Oops forgot to add the link.
www.carnicom.com...
Regards, Iwinder
edit on 26-4-2011 by Iwinder because: (no reason given)


I was wanting it in you own words, not a link to websites main page. If you make a claim, then back it up, rather than tell people to go find it on their own

The reason is I want to understand your level of comprehensionof your claim about elevated levels or barium and aluminum. So, if I can, can you list what would be an average level, what they found, and if what they found links back to aviation

edit on 26-4-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-4-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)

I did back it up with a link to a very popular and informative web site, I could pull a weedwhacker here and post 20 links and call you silly and uninformed but I won't.
I never said there was a link back to aviation......please post that if I did?
What I said is where is this increase in Barium and Aluminum coming from?
BoneZ has no idea and as I said before in the post above he is the one who brought that to the table and I quoted him.
As a lot of people here on this thread say "Educate your self" so hit the link and start reading.
It is a fact that Barium and Aluminum have increased at alarming rates here in North America.
Deny it all you like and I guess you can if you won't read the material I provided for you and everyone else here.
Also you never stated anywhere in the reply to my post that you wanted it in my own words, I figure you want it in my words and not in the words of someone who is extremely smart to do some character picking.
No luck for you sir, go read.
I am enjoying this thread very much.
Regards, Iwinder



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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Thats exactly it, there is NO actual evidence this mythical alarming increases of barium and aluminum.

Again, can you tell us what would be an average amount of aluminum in a sample of soil/rock from the earths crust? I am genuinely trying to see what you know about it...



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by firepilot
Thats exactly it, there is NO actual evidence this mythical alarming increases of barium and aluminum.

Again, can you tell us what would be an average amount of aluminum in a sample of soil/rock from the earths crust? I am genuinely trying to see what you know about it...

I know what I read about it on the above link....plus reading almost every link that he provided in his site.
I see where this is going.....you refuse to read a link I provided here and now you want me to clarify it for you.
T&C clearly states that you should provide a link or links......to back up your statements, Iv'e been there and done it and what have you provided?
You want combat and I want to discuss this in a civil manner....
I can't help you beyond what I have tried to offer to you, sorry
Have a good one there firepilot.
Regards, Iwinder

edit on 26-4-2011 by Iwinder because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by Iwinder
 


Here's some links to how tests for aluminium and barium have been mis-represented:

How "What in the world are they spraying?" got it wrong

How Arizona Skywatch misleads you

How KSLA misread barium levels, corrected themselves, but it still gets used as "evidence" by chemmies

Sue Miller's bogus science on Carnicom's site

nothing odd in the water at Mt Shasta

you didn't actually link to a specific test on Carnicom's site - is it the one above, or another? If you can link directly rather than just to the front page it will save time and confusion.



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Thanks for not being combative on this topic, the reason I linked the whole site is because if you don't read the whole thing you don't get the whole picture.
Some people here want a specific quote or link when it serves a purpose but they refuse to actually read a very good and (I admit Large) scientific web site.
Regards, Iwinder



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by Iwinder

Originally posted by firepilot
Thats exactly it, there is NO actual evidence this mythical alarming increases of barium and aluminum.

Again, can you tell us what would be an average amount of aluminum in a sample of soil/rock from the earths crust? I am genuinely trying to see what you know about it...

I know what I read about it on the above link....plus reading almost every link that he provided in his site.
I see where this is going.....you refuse to read a link I provided here and now you want me to clarify it for you.
T&C clearly states that you should provide a link or links......to back up your statements, Iv'e been there and done it and what have you provided?
You want combat and I want to discuss this in a civil manner....
I can't help you beyond what I have tried to offer to you, sorry
Have a good one there firepilot.
Regards, Iwinder

edit on 26-4-2011 by Iwinder because: (no reason given)


Yes. I have been visiting Carnicoms site, probably before you ever even heard of chemtrails. I know whats on it, including his "do it yourself" dentistry he does, or when he drinks wine, spits it in a cup and looks at his spit in a microscope.

I was trying to get you to look at science, not conspiracy claims. All I was trying to get you to do, what to look at his claim, and look at what real science tells you.

Contrary to what conspiracy sites tell you, Aluminum comes from nature, and is probably going to be found in any soil sample, any dust sample, and in any rock, in some form of aluminum. Prob the same with Barium too.

Aluminum averages 8% of the weight of the earths crust, its everywhere. Its going to be in dust, rocks, and in water bodies. The idea that you can not have natural elements and minerals in the outdoors, is silly and junk science.

Where do chemmies think that minerals comes from?

A link can be useful, but you were just putting up a link that did not reference anything but Canircoms top level, and you did not give us anything from the site. You will do better to put things in your own words, use a correct link to that information, and even quote some of the data, rather than just put up a link that does not reference anything, and to tell people to find the evidence themselves, that you should be posting

edit on 26-4-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 



And you sir I ask where are your links and scientific evidence that Barium and Aluminum are NOT increasing at all here In North America.
Yep he spits wine in a test tube and uses a very accurate microscope.....do you have a scope as accurate as his?
I am almost tempted to post a link from his site of the amount of traffic (hits) and who they were (Alphabet agencies) whom regularly hit his site.
It is quite a list as I am sure you know, as you claim to have read his whole site after the fact you asked me for specific links to information in the site.

Again I am enjoying this thread, but I have no desire to battle and belittle anyone.
Have a good one there again Firepilot :-)
Regards, Iwinder


edit on 26-4-2011 by Iwinder because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by Iwinder
reply to post by firepilot
 



And you sir I ask where are your links and scientific evidence that Barium and Aluminum are NOT increasing at all here In North America.
Yep he spits wine in a test tube and uses a very accurate microscope.....do you have a scope as accurate as his?
I am almost tempted to post a link from his site of the amount of traffic (hits) and who they were (Alphabet agencies) whom regularly hit his site.
It is quite a list as I am sure you know, as you claim to have read his whole site after the fact you asked me for specific links to information in the site.

Again I am enjoying this thread, but I have no desire to battle and belittle anyone.
Have a good one there again Firepilot :-)
Regards, Iwinder


edit on 26-4-2011 by Iwinder because: (no reason given)


You are wanting your conspiracy to be disproven, but thats not how it works. If I make a claim that something is abnormal or changing, its my job to prove it, not to tell others to disprove it.. You made the claim that there are elevated levels of barium and aluminum. My being skeptical, is not a claim, its that I am not going to just take someones word for it, without evidence. Its your claim, you back it up. And putting up a link to the carnicom top level is not backing it up.

What are your thoughts on Arizona Skywatch claiming the air in Phoenix is 4 percent Aluminum?

What are your thoughts that the "What in the World are they spraying" tries to cause alarmism over a soil sample with less than typical levels of aluminum?



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by Iwinder
reply to post by firepilot
 



And you sir I ask where are your links and scientific evidence that Barium and Aluminum are NOT increasing at all here In North America.


In the same place as you find the link to prove you are not a child molester of course.

your question is another typical chemmie tactic - unable to find any evidence that there are chemtrails they (you!) demand proof that chemtrails do not exist.

It is a logical fallacy called argument from ignorance.

No doubt you think it is valid, but no-one with any concept of actual logic agrees with you.



I am almost tempted to post a link from his site of the amount of traffic (hits) and who they were (Alphabet agencies) whom regularly hit his site.


Which would prove what, and how is it related to contrails or chemtrails or geo-engineering?



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by _BoneZ_
Considering that "chemtrail" isn't even a word:




I think you're wanting #1 on that list: CONTRAIL. There's no such thing as chemtrails and they've been debunked ad nausium here on ATS and have been proven to be disinformation.

If any of you think that there is any reality to them, then try to debunk my post here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Nobody has been able to yet.







The only thing at fault is your dictionary. At the very least it would know that the word is a myth for the real thing, contrails. It doesn't recognize it at all, meaning it's not smart, it's dumb. If it isn't a word, how can you debunk it? How can it be used in a sentence? Etc, etc.



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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I am almost tempted to post a link from his site of the amount of traffic (hits) and who they were (Alphabet agencies) whom regularly hit his site.


I am sure it was people probably needing a good laugh. One of my friends in the USAF would send links about chemtrail sites around, so they could laugh about it, and he even had a "Down with Chemtrails" sticker on his locker of flight gear, as a joke.

Taken a look at Carnicoms message board lately? May as well be a ghost town.



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by Iwinder
reply to post by firepilot
 



And you sir I ask where are your links and scientific evidence that Barium and Aluminum are NOT increasing at all here In North America.
Yep he spits wine in a test tube and uses a very accurate microscope.....do you have a scope as accurate as his?
I am almost tempted to post a link from his site of the amount of traffic (hits) and who they were (Alphabet agencies) whom regularly hit his site.
It is quite a list as I am sure you know, as you claim to have read his whole site after the fact you asked me for specific links to information in the site.

Again I am enjoying this thread, but I have no desire to battle and belittle anyone.
Have a good one there again Firepilot :-)
Regards, Iwinder


edit on 26-4-2011 by Iwinder because: (no reason given)


You are wanting your conspiracy to be disproven, but thats not how it works. If I make a claim that something is abnormal or changing, its my job to prove it, not to tell others to disprove it.. You made the claim that there are elevated levels of barium and aluminum. My being skeptical, is not a claim, its that I am not going to just take someones word for it, without evidence. Its your claim, you back it up. And putting up a link to the carnicom top level is not backing it up.

What are your thoughts on Arizona Skywatch claiming the air in Phoenix is 4 percent Aluminum?

What are your thoughts that the "What in the World are they spraying" tries to cause alarmism over a soil sample with less than typical levels of aluminum?


For the last time I will state this and look it up in this thread.......I did not claim the elevated levels of Barium and Aluminum as you say I did. BONZE did that claim and I do agree with it and I did quote him but I did not bring this to the table. From what I have read it seems to be true......Has anyone debunked www.carnicom.com...
I see a lot of vague comments but not one web site has taken his findings to task at a full debunking if you will.
The man is a genius as I see them he states the facts and puts up the science to boot.
You keep asking me to put up individual links to a site that you already admit to reading before" I was even aware of this sitiuation." I am a bit older than 50 here.
Why I ask are you doing this?
We are going in circles here, good for us I don't have better things to do.
Here ya go ......www.carnicom.com...
Quite the read there ain't it?
Regards, Iwinder
PS please stop saying things I did not say............as in bringing this Aluminum and Barium issue here, I did not do so.
Regards, again :-) Iwinder


edit on 26-4-2011 by Iwinder because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by firepilot



I am almost tempted to post a link from his site of the amount of traffic (hits) and who they were (Alphabet agencies) whom regularly hit his site.


I am sure it was people probably needing a good laugh. One of my friends in the USAF would send links about chemtrail sites around, so they could laugh about it, and he even had a "Down with Chemtrails" sticker on his locker of flight gear, as a joke.

Taken a look at Carnicoms message board lately? May as well be a ghost town.


Funny joke that one is, what was the next sticker on the next locker "shoot nukes and live to tell the tale?"
So a site that has been around for lots of years (10 i'm guessing but close) has a message board that is almost dead. Therefore the site is dead correct?
Ahhh your sucking me in here and I won't go any further with this post.
I will add thou just check out the hit count on that site and that alone says something.
You can't post on the message board part and ignore the hits on the site.
Regards, Iwinder



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by Iwinder

For the last time I will state this and look it up in this thread.......I did not claim the elevated levels of Barium and Aluminum as you say I did. BONZE did that claim and I do agree with it and I did quote him but I did not bring this to the table. From what I have read it seems to be true......Has anyone debunked www.carnicom.com...


that link doesn't work sorry - can you provide a correct one?



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