The government has us where they want us, as clueless human beings. Whether you want to agree with it or not is your opinion, but ultimately this is where our position lies. Eventual disclosure is only a hope. A hope that has lasted for 50 years. Just think about it. All the "extreme" stories we hear are just blatent hoaxes with no factual data. You go to a website and you have to take a person's word for it that they have indeed experienced what they have experienced. But people like John Lear, Nancy Lieder, Bob Lazar, Al Blielik are all full of it. We know this becuase of debunking sites, wild false interpretations, as well as data that goes against their word.

So now you have to consider the ratio of hoaxers to truth tellers and tell me what you get? The ratio is 30:0. That also makes sense becuase only a logical person would know not to go against the government. Even if it is extreme ideas that make him look like a lunatic, he is still a threat of giving away secrets to another country's govt. that would otherwise know about such issues.

I first got interested in this business of the paranormal becuase I read about the philadelphia experiment and I was still a new bie at the time, so I took Al Bleilik's word for it. I dived more into the topic and found out he was full of it!!!!!!Then I later dove into the Alien topic concerning real deep issues, such as their involvment with our government, their body type, motives, and so forth with no data to back it up. With all these sites, I also found debunk sites, and it seems no one is telling the truth these days.

There really is no good information out there. ATS, I think is a great site, but look what it has done to itself. It has placed an entire section on John Titor on this site. I even ran across another message board posting at Timetravel institute with TimeTravel_0 claiming it was all a hoax. Whether it was really him is up to you to believe, but I think the ratio of liers to truth tellers will not change.

[edit on 27-7-2004 by kyateLaBoca]

[edit on 27-7-2004 by kyateLaBoca]

Originally posted by kyateLaBoca
So now you have to consider the ratio of hoaxers to truth tellers and tell me what you get? The ratio is 30:0.

That's completely unfair. Noone knows, so attempting statistics is illogical. This applies to pictures, videos, and witness accounts.

A picture can be a real ufo, at the same time a secret military craft.
It can be a hoax. It can be an accident (smudge), it could be a frisbee or it could be a real freagin flying saucer. Noone knows.

Same applies to videos. So what's the ratio of hoaxes?

I've heard numbers thrown around, like only 1% of reported ufo sightings are hoaxes, but even that is meaningless.

Does that apply to "reported" sightings only? Pictures too?

So, in general my opinion is that yes, most of the pictures/videos are not real space travelling crafts and or their occupants.

We can say this because many of the pictures and videos circulating around are known, for example their creators have admitted to creating them.

But take the now infamous Ray Santilli roswell video. No one knows for sure but alot of people claim that it is a fraud.

Originally posted by senshido

Originally posted by kyateLaBoca
So now you have to consider the ratio of hoaxers to truth tellers and tell me what you get? The ratio is 30:0.

That's completely unfair. Noone knows, so attempting statistics is illogical. This applies to pictures, videos, and witness accounts.

A picture can be a real ufo, at the same time a secret military craft.
It can be a hoax. It can be an accident (smudge), it could be a frisbee or it could be a real freagin flying saucer. Noone knows.

Same applies to videos. So what's the ratio of hoaxes?for sure but alot of people claim that it is a fraud.

Well I wasnt talking about sightings or crop circles and trying to debate with you their realness. UFO's do exist in a sense that they are unidentified to human beings. Military, meteors, or extraterrestrial, they do exist. We know this from countless people analyzing footage and determining their authenticity. Some of it probably is real. But thats not what I was arguing. UFO's are only the surface area of a region we need to scratch more of.

And thats what where my argument lies. Its all about people who claim they have scratched the surface and deep into the UFO phenomenon. I could care less about the sightings. I'm more interested in whats truly going on with this whole supposed conspiracy. The problem is that all these people who claim they have scratched deep into the UFO phenomenon are proven hoaxers. Many different places have been debunked them. Do you really want to believe John Lear, who claims that when we die our souls get trapped on the moon? Or Nancy Lieder who can channel the zetas? And what about Duncan Cameron and Al Blielik? Thats where I was centering my argument on. Not on UFO sightings.

As for Santilli, I dont really want to say too much about him except that he doesnt want to send even a small piece of the original footage in for analysis to verify its authenticity.

yea, it thought for a moment you were losing your faith in discovering the unknown.

You have to remember that our race (lets just since 10000BC) has only discovered so much and we may not be ready for something so advanced. Wars and etc. Things could get even worse 0.o I'm not going to say UFO's HAVE been visiting us and etc. but i believe.

Another thing you have to remember about de-bunking a theory. It's a lot easier to disprove something than it is to prove something to someone and change the way they have thought their entire life. People try to disprove things when they interfere with such things as that. Also, in order for someone to change someone elses complete thought about life/etc they have to provide TONS of information and ALL the information HAS to fit together and correctly - if anything is found to be somewhat wrong or uncertain BAM the theory/thought is discredited by many and word spreads. Who says ALL the aliens live and conduct things the same way. Especially in cases of abductees, they ask normal questions "did you lose time etc" Well, guess what i got abducted and they took me to disney land

Who knows if the government really knows what is going on. I highly doubt if anyone knows its the government. LOL i mean seriously OUR government be able to communicate with aliens, we cant even communicate with outselves

yea that is true...but the sad part is when people like lieder and blielik speak, they have no true credibility. They present no evidence. You have to just "take their word for it." That is something I am not willing to do unless they have something to back it up. I'm not just trying to alienate those 4 individuals I listed above, I'm speaking out against all those individuals who claim they know the truth, but have no evidence, and force us to take their word for it.

There was actually a UFO documentary on Area 51 with this 1 guy willing to speak up about the truth. His face was actually blacked out as well as the rest of his body when he spoke out about area 51. He didnt provide much info becuase he was only a bus driver that took people to the base. Now if a bus driver is scared as heck to show himself on TV, I think Lazar or any other "engineer" at area 51 would not have the "balls" to come on national TV showing there face.

To speak of government secrets is to sign your own death warrent.