The Terminators: drone strikes prompt MoD to ponder ethics of killer robots.

This was inevitable and an extremely scray thought.......but also exciting.

Originally posted by Truth4Thought
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

I have mixed reactions to this whole drone scenario. Truth is, there are good uses for them, yet we use them for some not so good things (opinions will differ).

I agree with you where there is a difference between military usage, and domestic use against our own civilians. Where will the line be drawn. Never mind we drew it but they still crossed it. Nothing we say matters. Just hope when these things are in full force flying above you in daytime view that you are not on their "hit list".

Yeah, it's all good until you end up on their hit list. Makes you want to be a "model citizen" for sure.

Originally posted by Viking9019
This was inevitable and an extremely scray thought.......but also exciting.

I agree on how it was pretty much inevitable. And it certainly is exciting and scary at the same time. I'm leaning more towards the scary side though

they aren't unmanned, there is still a pilot sitting by a screen controlling the drone with superiors ordering the strikes.

what makes drones evil, is that there is no mistakes with them. the drone can relay a crystal clear high definition picture of the target. it can zoom in and tell you the brand of the sneakers they're wearing.

it can definitely make out faces and whether they are armed or not. so these strikes where 45 civilians are killed are carried out with complete disregard of who dies.

being armed or not doesn't make you a target, suspected of being a terrorist is much worse.

reply to post by randomname


Do you believe that perhaps there is some type of AI that has been tested, and maybe being integrated with military machinery?I know it sounds far fetched, but AI has made many public advances recently. Which leaves me to think that for what they are telling us, there is probably much more to know.

I know for a fact that the military are always trying to integrate things. I once did a thread on the military studying squid in order to use their color changing ability as a possible cloaking device. So trying to get self reliant robots would not be so far fetched to expect from any of the major advanced military such as USA/China/Israel/Russia.

Just a few of my thoughts.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Hi. I am also very interested in this subject matter. Apparently we do not need to worry about the integrity of our own ethics because the plan is to outsource them to robots.

I am sure that this has been said already but presently, by law, a person (human being) must be in the 'loop' when these machines are operating. You can have a look at the architecture for the systems that will run these machines when they are unmanned by checking out the work of Professor Ronald C. Arkin. He and his team at Georgia Tech are developing what is called the Ethical Adaptor.

I set up a thread just about this very thing last week. Please check it out if you have a moment.

P.S. I have also posted direct excerpts from Dr. Arkins Tech Reports and Other work on this thread. One quote is Arkin himself describing a scenario wherein the robot 's Ethical Governor control's the firepower of the robot with 'guilt'. Very interesting reading.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks. It is nice to know that this is on the mind of others.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Rukas

 

Have you ever thought to wonder that perhaps all the cool innovations they have come up with have been hidden from the general public for good, and sinister reasons.

I personally believe there is much more technology out there than we are let known. Such as clean renewable energy, food for everyone, cure for diseases. I would not hold it past TPTB to hold anything from us that my benefit us just for their own profits and protection.

But you may be right, maybe we have hit the pinnacle of our advancement for the time being, but I don't exactly agree with that.

No. Simply because I know people that are developing quantum computing technology with funding from the military. So I know the tech is not there yet. At the moment it works, isnt as good as current CPUs, and is unstable for long term use.

Im sure there is a lot of tech we dont know about, like clean free energy etc, but when it comes to computing the industry is driven by the private and academic sector simply because that is where the money is now.

Point is with current tech we have almost reached a point where we cant go much faster or smaller (to pack more onto a board) and with current tech A.I. is no where near possible. Let alone the complexity of actually coding a program that can learn is impossible, we cant even get a program to generate a truly random number.

The Ethical Adaptor is defined by Prof. Arkin as being “a robotic architecture that is designed for enforcing ethical constraints on the actions of robots that have the ability to use lethal force”. [Ed. Another name for it is the Ethical Governor as it works just like a governor on a motor but in this case what is being restricted is lethality or death and destruction].

[Ed. Essentially the ethical governor works in conjunction with fire control systems and databases which include mission directives and objectives as well as ‘constraint sets’ (‘C’) based on the Rules of Engagement (ROE) and the Laws of War (LOW). All of these components work together as a complete system to govern the behavior of the robot in the field and it is the robot’s perceived ‘feelings’ of guilt which trigger the system to restrict the lethality of the robot.]

Although Arkin himself says that we are a long way off from realizing fully unmanned robots you might take a look at this site.

This is Arkin's site at Georgia Tech...
www.cc.gatech.edu...

reply to post by BarmyBilly


Hi my first post here. I have been following the ATS for a while. Decided to jump in the pool at last.Thanks.
I do agree that we might be far of from T1000, though nobody knows how much the military is advanced in robotics and so on. Remember the Stealth and the B bombers. And thats what public came to find what was secret those days but i think they were disclosed deliberately anyway. So what I am saying is, we will never know what they have until a big war breaks out just like WW2. I am assuming the army,navy and airforce have technology way advanced then what we see today out there. Cheers,

reply to post by SLAYER69


reminded me of that most stupid of stupid movies skyline

where the ripped out the brains to run their machinery.




to the op i think no worries for at least another 50 years

reply to post by Frater210

Hi. I am also very interested in this subject matter. Apparently we do not need to worry about the integrity of our own ethics because the plan is to outsource them to robots. I am sure that this has been said already but presently, by law, a person (human being) must be in the 'loop' when these machines are operating. You can have a look at the architecture for the systems that will run these machines when they are unmanned by checking out the work of Professor Ronald C. Arkin. He and his team at Georgia Tech are developing what is called the Ethical Adaptor. I set up a thread just about this very thing last week. Please check it out if you have a moment.

Very interesting points, and info. I checked out your thread and it was well done.

I gave it a star and a flag.

Thanks for the links

reply to post by Rukas

No. Simply because I know people that are developing quantum computing technology with funding from the military. So I know the tech is not there yet. At the moment it works, isnt as good as current CPUs, and is unstable for long term use.

No offense, but I "know" a lot of people too. Maybe they aren't allowed to tell you what they know, or they are not as important as they say they are.

Like I said, no offense, but just because you "know" someone who said so, I am not going to base my opinion solely on what the person you "know" says.

Originally posted by GALAXIUS
reply to post by BarmyBilly

 

Hi my first post here. I have been following the ATS for a while. Decided to jump in the pool at last.Thanks.
I do agree that we might be far of from T1000, though nobody knows how much the military is advanced in robotics and so on. Remember the Stealth and the B bombers. And thats what public came to find what was secret those days but i think they were disclosed deliberately anyway. So what I am saying is, we will never know what they have until a big war breaks out just like WW2. I am assuming the army,navy and airforce have technology way advanced then what we see today out there. Cheers,

Welcome to ATS, glad you finally jumped in. I lurked for about a year before I decided to start posting. Never regretted it one bit.

I also remember the stealth technology supposed to be innovative in the 80's but in reality the Nazis had it in ww2. So it is totally possible that there currently exists technologies that we are not being told about.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

reminded me of that most stupid of stupid movies skyline

where the ripped out the brains to run their machinery.




to the op i think no worries for at least another 50 years

I hated that movie too, I don't even think I made it to the end.

Your time frame may be accurate, but it all depends on what exactly exists now, whether we know about it or not. But I am on the same train of thought as you. I think it will be a while yet before we master any form of AI robots capable of performing real tasks like being self sufficient and logical according to their programing. I wonder what limits they would have though if they are restricted to their programming.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


isaac asimovs 3 laws most likely

1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey any orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.


ai very definition is thinking for itself so that would mean its behavior would evolve from external stimuli.

just like we evovled from external stimuli to the state of existence we know now.

basically if you can think your thinking changes as you learn.

personally i think we will be wiped out from a virus,asteroid,or yellowstone before "killer robots" will have their chance.

but im hoping for a zombie apocalpyse cause thats the only shtf scenario i have the best chance at surving

reply to post by neo96

personally i think we will be wiped out from a virus,asteroid,or yellowstone before "killer robots" will have their chance. but im hoping for a zombie apocalpyse cause thats the only shtf scenario i have the best chance at surving

Yeah, these robots are the least of my worries.

The zombie thing would be a lot more fun. I liked the new new "Dawn of the Dead". I would have been a perfect actor for that film.

Realistically though, a "real" pandemic (not the crap the news tells us about, or planetary catastrophe would be our main worries versus these AI robots and drones.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


im not to worried of a robot take over from the big typpes of machines, just drop an emp on them and the problem is solved.

as for the threat from nanatech grey gooing the earth however that will be more difficult to fend off

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


agreed to steal a line of a show i didn't like too much

its all happened before it will all happen again.

The problem with Robotic warfare is that the controls are all performed by a human at a terminal.

If you look at APM (actions per minute) averages in the Realtime Strategy game Starcraft or Starcraft 2, you will find that there is a huge disparity between Korea and the rest of the world.

I hypothesize that in the era of robot based combat - "he who clicks fastest wins"

just some points for reference...

www.cyberdyne.jp...

skynet
news.bbc.co.uk...

www.astrium.eads.net...

its a worry when these names are already popping up...