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Is the Silas Newton hoax well known on ATS?

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posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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Quick question:

My posts during the last few days about the misrepresentations and nonsense in the FBI "Vault" stories have presumed that most people know about the Silas Newton hoax (at least in very general terms).

From the discussion of the FBI vault, I've been questioning my presumption.

So, is the Silas Newton hoax well known on ATS?

If not, it may be worth a thread explaining its history in some detail and the links to the relevant FBI document which has been creating so much excitement in the last few days.

A few indications from members of ATS of their knowledge - or lack of knowledge - of that hoax would be helpful in letting me know whether a thread about it would be helpful or just a waste of my time.

(Edit: I'll assume from silence that there isn't much interest).

All the best,

Isaac
edit on 12-4-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


I have no idea what the Silas Newton hoax is. At least you gave me something to do today, which is to read up on it.



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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I never heard about it before. What is it about?



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


I don't know what the Silas Newton hoax is.


Please exèplain in a thead, Isaac.



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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Talking about this?

m.ibtimes.com...



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


I've been trying to find the time to write a thread about the connection but have failed, if you can do it that would be stellar.


Thanks Isaac.

Springer...



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:29 PM
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Fine - I'll try to find the time to write up a thread about the Silas Newton hoax and the links to the FBI document tomorrow (unless someone else does this work overnight - which would be great as far as I'm concerned).

Thanks for the indications.

All the best,

Isaac



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:29 PM
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Here is a link to a good article on the Silas M. Newton and Leo A. Gebauer Hoax. Link to Blog on Hoax

I think the more serious people are familiar. Lot's of new members though who may not have ran into this.


Newton and Gebauer were involved in oil exploration finance schemes. Their hoax was perpetrated to get investors. They claimed they had built a machine that would find oil and natural gas deposits using alien technology. J.P. Cahn of the San Francisco ChronicleTrue magazine in 1952 had some of the “alien” metal tested and determined it was aluminum. Cahn’s account of the phony alien ship appeared in . Several people who had been swindled by Newton and Gebauer came forward. One of their victims, Herman Glader, a millionaire from Denver, pressed charges and the pair was convicted of fraud and related charges in 1953. (They had charged $18,500 for a “tuner” which could be bought at surplus stores for $3.50 at the time.)


One of those rare times a Hoax was actually revealed fully through a trial in court.



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555

I think the more serious people are familiar.


That's what I had presumed. If that's right, I'm completely unable to explain why it has not been referred to more in the numerous threads about the FBI's "new" release...



One of those rare times a Hoax was actually revealed fully through a trial in court.


Ah, lawyers proving their value to society once again!



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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Edit - double post
edit on 12-4-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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Another good read from Reality Uncovered. LINK


If the board members of Scammers Inc needed a blueprint for their plan to hoodwink wealthy investors with tales of crashed flying saucers and reverse engineered alien technology, they didn’t have to look very far. Conveniently for them, a blueprint already existed in the form of the Aztec UFO scam that fooled wealthy investor’s way back in the late 40′s and early 50′s.



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by IsaacKoi
If that's right, I'm completely unable to explain why it has not been referred to more in the numerous threads about the FBI's "new" release...


I think it's because people are growing weary of trying to get anywhere with the crowd who never researches anything themselves and believes anything at all UFO related.

You are right though and we should ignore that and post real information anyway for those willing to use their noggins. This thread is starting that process. There comes a point I think where people realize that only the Skeptics and Critical Thinkers will in the end uncover the truth, if there is a truth to be had.

It get's disheartening when people don't realize the true intent of ATS and that those they criticize for being Skeptics are the ones who will reveal the truth one way or the other.

In this case the hoax has been mentioned at least once on the MSM I've seen myself. Sadly they did not go into detail. But then those who want to believe so badly they stop using their grey matter are not looking for facts.



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
Another good read from Reality Uncovered. LINK


Thanks.

If someone else wants to write a more detailed article/thread (here's hoping someone else writes one overnight - it would save me bothering...), they might find the references to discussions in UFO books in the table at the link below useful:
www.isaackoi.com...

Sorted by length of discussion, the longest discussions I've noted are:


620 pages - Steinman, William and Stevens, Wendelle in their “UFO Crash at Aztec” (1986) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) generally, at pages 5-625 of the Wendelle Stevens hardback edition.

29 pages - Scully, Frank in “UFO Crash at Aztec” (1986) by Steinman, William and Stevens, Wendelle (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 120-124, 126-127, 129, 130-143, 157-159, 234-237 of the Wendelle Stevens hardback edition.

20 pages - Menzel, Donald in his “Flying Saucers“ (1953) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 45-46 (in Chapter 4, “Hoaxers and Jokers”) and pages 149-166 (Chapter 12 generally, “The little men from Venus”) of the Putnam hardback edition.

16 pages - Redfern, Nicholas in his “The FBI Files” (1998) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 215-230 (in Chapter 10) of the Simon & Schuster softcover edition, with the same page numbering in the Pocket Books paperback edition.

13 pages - Moseley, James and Pflock, Karl in their “Shockingly Close to the Truth!” (2002) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 66-67, 76, 77-80, 82 (in Chapter 3), 92-95 (in Chapter 4), 112 (in Chapter 5) of the Prometheus hardback edition.

13 pages - Good, Timothy in his “Beyond Top Secret” (1996) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 484-496 (in Chapter 19) of the Sidgwick & Jackson hardback edition (with the same page numbering in the Pan paperback edition).

12 pages - Beckley, Timothy Green in his “MJ-12 and the Riddle of Hangar 18” (1989) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 26-32, 34-38 (in Chapter 2) of the Inner Light softcover edition.

10 pages - Wood, Ryan in his “MAJIC Eyes Only” (2005) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 83-92 of the Wood Enterprises hardback edition.

8 pages - Good, Timothy in his “Above Top Secret” (1987) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 384-391 (in Chapter 16) of the Sidgwick & Jackson hardback edition (with the same page numbering in the Guild Publishing hardback edition and the Grafton paperback edition).

7pages - Redfern, Nicholas in his “On the Trail of the Saucer Spies : UFOs and Government Surveillance” (2006) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 7-13 (in Chapter 1) of the Anomalist Books softcover edition.

7 pages - Good, Timothy in his “Need To Know : UFOs, the Military and Intelligence” (2006) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 117-123 (in Chapter 7) of the Sidgwick & Jackson hardback edition.

7 pages - Fitzgerald, Randall in his “The Cosmic Test Tube” (1998) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 70, 97-98, 170-171, 184 (in Section 2) with a one sentence summary at page 369 (in the Guide To Books) of the Moonlake Media softcover edition.

6 pages - Redfern, Nicholas in his “Body Snatchers in the Desert: The Horrible Truth at the heart of the Roswell Story” (2005) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 101 (in Chapter 10), 174-178 (in Chapter 14) of the Paraview Pocket Books softback edition.

6 pages - Randles, Jenny in her “UFO Retrievals” (1995) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 56-61 (in Chapter 3) of the Blandford softback edition.

6 pages - Randle, Kevin in his “The UFO Casebook” (1989) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 40-45 (forming part of entry entitled “1948: The UFO Crashes Begin”) of the Warner Books paperback edition.

6 pages - Randle, Kevin in his “A history of UFO crashes” (1995) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 1, 3 (in the Introduction), 184-187 of the Avon paperback edition.

5 pages - Schwarz, Berthold E in his “UFO Dynamics : Psychiatric and Psychic Aspects of the UFO Syndrome” (1983) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 526-530 (in Chapter 25) of the 1988 revised Rainbow Books softcover edition.

5 pages - Randle, Kevin D and Schmitt, Donald R in their “UFO Crash at Roswell“ (1991) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 240 (in Appendix A), 247-248 (in Appendix B), 262-263 (in Appendix C) of the Avon paperback edition.

5 pages - Peebles, Curtis in his “Watch the Skies!” (1994) (available on Amazon USA and on Amazon UK) at pages 47-50 (Chapter 4, “The Myth Defined” – in part of a section entitled “ ‘Behind the Flying Saucers”), 271 (Chapter 17) of the Smithsonian hardback edition, at page 55-58, 325 of the Berkley paperback edition.

(plus lots and lots of shorter discussions)


I've got a separate (much shorter) list of references to discussion of Cahn's article at:
www.isaackoi.com...

All the best,

Isaac
edit on 12-4-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 07:06 PM
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I was aware of the Silas Newton hoax but I did not make the connection between the hoax and the document in question until you pointed it out, Issac.



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 07:50 PM
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Don't discredit Dr. G. There's much more to the story than meets the eye.

This is one supposed hoax that leads to actual gravity: it's meaning and manipulation.

If you have time, watch this.. "Aztec 1948 UFO Crash." It's an hour-long video, however you'll note that there's much more to Dr.G than is known.


If you're really interested in the truth, you gotta work for it. Believing what others call a hoax is being closed minded - digging deeper is where it starts. At about 4 min into the documentary, you're introduced to Dr. G.



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by WingedBull
I was aware of the Silas Newton hoax but I did not make the connection between the hoax and the document in question until you pointed it out, Issac.


I have posted links to the Silas Newton debacle on at least 2 of the FBI vault threads but I think people cant be bothered opening stuff these days!!

Mores the pity.....



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 08:32 PM
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sounds fermilliar from somewhere but not imediatly ringing any bells



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 02:22 AM
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I'd love to hear a full story re this hoax, I'm happy to admit I've never heard of it before so would be keen to learn.

Cheers



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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Ok, I've spent a bit of time pulling together material relating to the Silas Newton hoax (with a particular emphasis on links to the "new" FBI memo about alien bodies that has been creating such excitment). I've posted that material at the link below:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



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