If its true that the devil is the master of deceit and he is here to deceive us how do we know the devil didnotcreat jesusand the bible. Jesus is the son of the devil and he tells us he is the son of god, he knows that diffrent religons will cause war, and he sees people fighting for him and christianity, when we die we get to heaven and the devil is sitting there and he just looks at us an says "you just got punk'ed, big time".

The devil will try to decieve you in any and every way, so how can you trust any thing?

Just a couple thoughts i had.

Plus if i go to heaven and the devil says i got punk'ed i do have to give the ugy some props i meen he would have got us pretty damn good.

The devil is a creation of god, and not the other way around.

if the devil was truely the creator, he would have no need to decieve

if there was a devil out to corrupt us, i woudn't at all be surprised if he rewrote the bible. i mean look at all the intolerance and ignorance christianity has brought into this world. how could such a thing be the work of a "loving" god. i mean if the devil has so much power over us, who's to say he can't corrupt the word of god and use them as a means to set us against each other. i mean its not that hard to rewrite ancient texts. not to mention for the longest time the bible was only available to the churches and they could have done whatever the hell they wanted to it to suit thier agendas. its because of stuff like this that i dont trust in any sort of information that is presented to me. the only information i put any faith in is my own personal thoughts and nothing else.

I would rather take the chance of believing in God and Jesus and their salvation and be right than not believe and be wrong.
I mean if there is no Savior, what hope is there for this life? for you and me? there is none. So I would rather have the hope that the Savior does exist rather than have no hope at all.

Originally posted by zi2525
how do we know the devil didnotcreat jesusand the bible.

Are there no absolutes in your world???

Jesus is the son of the devil and he tells us he is the son of god, he knows that diffrent religons will cause war, and he sees people fighting for him and christianity, when we die we get to heaven and the devil is sitting there and he just looks at us an says "you just got punk'ed, big time".

this line of thinking is similiar to holding a mirror to a mirror and seeing infinity...you'll make yourself insane..

Negatives can only exist within language. i.e. you can only have no somethings within a ligual description. Decit is a negativity-based trait of language. (Q. "Where is it?" A. "It's not here" when it is, or A "It's here" when it is not)

follow?

So, who ever invented language invented decit.

CMWIG: that's a 'canned' statement if i ever saw one. use to parrot those words myself.
thankfully i have been shown that the God of ALL is infinitely larger than all the worlds religions combined!

If God did not want humans to have knowledge (ie eating the apple) then is it not logical to conclude that God is actually the master of deceit?


Would you like some worms? I just opened a fresh can.

Originally posted by Jonna
If God did not want humans to have knowledge (ie eating the apple) then is it not logical to conclude that God is actually the master of deceit?


Would you like some worms? I just opened a fresh can.

Very nice......

You are right.... If God is all knowing, wouldnt he know that EVE would eat the stupid apple. In telling not to do something you are telling them to do it.


If I tell you "dont forget", you will forget. The brain doesnt hear the negative, just the forget. It is much better to ask, " please remember".

It is inheritly the same thing.

Originally posted by The Cockroach
Negatives can only exist within language. i.e. you can only have no somethings within a ligual description. Decit is a negativity-based trait of language. (Q. "Where is it?" A. "It's not here" when it is, or A "It's here" when it is not)

follow?

So, who ever invented language invented decit.

When I read these words, I considered a valid counter-point and I thought "mime magician".

Originally posted by Jonna
If God did not want humans to have knowledge (ie eating the apple) then is it not logical to conclude that God is actually the master of deceit?

Logical?

To deceive is "to cause to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid".

The knowledge of the fruit was the knowledge of good and evil. Good would be "doing what God wants". Evil would be "Not doing what God wants".

To God, evil would false or invalid. By saying "not to eat" the fruit, he is not causing one to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid. So, he would not be "the master of deceit".

Originally posted by The Cockroach
You are right.... If God is all knowing, wouldnt he know that EVE would eat the stupid apple. In telling not to do something you are telling them to do it.


If I tell you "dont forget", you will forget. The brain doesnt hear the negative, just the forget. It is much better to ask, " please remember".

It's a good thing "Thou shalt of it" was not the only part of the warning. The second part was started as a positive.

Gen 2:17 (KJV)
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The New Living translation that doesn't even use the "Thou shalt not". Not that I agree with that translation, but it shows that the negative warning was not needed.

Gen 2:17 (NLT)
except fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat of its fruit, you will surely die."


.

Originally posted by Raphael_UO

Originally posted by Jonna
If God did not want humans to have knowledge (ie eating the apple) then is it not logical to conclude that God is actually the master of deceit?

Logical? To deceive is "to cause to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid".

If I withhold information from you, is that act not infact lieing and deceiving? According to the story, god told Adam/Eve not to eat the apple thus limiting their knowledge. He knew of something which they did not and basicly ordered them not to become aware of. Is this not deceiving them of some unknown truth which could benefit them?

If you ask me the snake is the hero of that story. The snake symbolizes growth and change through the sheading of its skin. It helps Adam/Eve to learn and evolve instead of remaining under this vicious and childish god's thumb. That's my opinion.

if there was a devil out to corrupt us, i woudn't at all be surprised if he rewrote the bible. i mean look at all the intolerance and ignorance christianity has brought into this world. how could such a thing be the work of a "loving" god.

But was the ignorance and intolerance brought into the world by christianity or by those who climed to be christians? The fact is no one who reads the words of the Christ can find any violence in those words nor exuses for violence. The failings of men are not the failings of religon.

You are right.... If God is all knowing, wouldnt he know that EVE would eat the stupid apple.

He knew. But he still allowed them to make the choice for themselves. The fact is god already knows what choices we will make in our lives and he allows us to make the choice.