Saddened by this POW Video

Originally posted by jms88
The scumbags in these videos however will be brought to justice, guaranteed.

The chain reaction of evil -- hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars--must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation. Martin Luther King

If we just ignore the "public curiosity" clause of the conventions, I'd assume you agree that the prisoners shown in the photos above, in transit to Camp X-ray, are being treated far worse than the prisoners who were shown on Iraqi TV.

Overall, the continuing treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay is known around the world, and will lose the US any sympathy where these POW's are concerned. I'd hope most Americans would feel that it would be better for the US to treat their prisoners within the international conventions, rather than outside of even US law.

Originally posted by dom

it's pretty clear that the Iraqi breach was a little bit more severe than the coalition breach.

If we weren't on a very serious topic, I would laugh to death.

* A little bit more severe * ? Are you kidding ????? Did you forget how the POW from the first Gulf War were looking ? Beated, tortured, misstreated........ I remember the British Tornado pilots that we saw on the tv. Apparently, you don't !

Yeah, I remember the pilots from Gulf War 1. I don't see how that's relevant to the quote you just posted from one of my replies to this topic.

I'm talking about the breach of the 3rd Geneva Convention carried out when a) Allies have shown Iraqi POW's in the last few days and b) Iraq have shown coalition POW's being questioned in the last few days.

[Edited on 25-3-2003 by dom]

that we shouldn't have shown the Iraqi POWs on tv either, just to be on the safe side...however, the way in which we have shown them (i.e. anonymously) does not violate the article of the convention, imho. The same cannot be said for the way in which the Iraqis have insulted each of our POWs personally...

Originally posted by dom

I'm talking about the breach of the 3rd Geneva Convention carried out when a) Allies have shown Iraqi POW's in the last few days and b) Iraq have shown coalition POW's being questioned in the last few days.

Ok dom.

But me I was speaking about how the Irakians are acting against the POW, not about the Convention.

When I saw the Irakians POW's, they were not * looking scared *. But when I saw the allied POW's, the were scared. That was my point.

Gee.. good thing there are not any images of dead insurance salesmen in New York after the 9/11 attack.

Wondering at the moment what the Geneva convention
states about deliberatly targeting civilians??

Toltec - very good. Let's bring 9/11 into it, after all, that justifies anything doesn't it?

Ultra-pheonix - Ahh, I understand what you're trying to say. That our POW's should be more scared... well, I guess. Doesn't mean that they will get beaten though. If we see pictures of them in a few days with broken noses and bloodshot eyes, then that'll prove that the Iraqi's are breaching a few more clauses... we'll probably only find out once the war is over.

Gazrok - The fact that you show their faces is enough to make it un-anonymous. So indeed, both are breaches of the same clause.

Well no dom there is not justification there in regard to what the Nazi's did.

Seriously in my humble opinion what 9/11 justifies is the war in Afganistan as well as the current action is Iraq.

Beyond that I feel continued hostility (say agaisnt Iran or North Korea) is not really appropriate.

SLIBRSLIBD

I agree that these images are sad, and my heart goes out to the POWs who had to die in this senseless war. However, any intelligent thinker has to admit that this is a case of America getting a taste of it's own medicine.

We held the Camp X-ray prisoners captive for over a year. We starved them, beat them, bound them with duct tape and ropes, humiliated them and it was reported by outside sources that the men at the base would spit on them whenever their warden's back was turned. I would think that they would probably have preferred death rather then a year of humiliation.

Plus, after that long year, you know what they did? They released them and made the comment in a press release that all the men were innocent.

Look, I feel bad for the POWs, but America has been, and currently is, the greatest human rights violator in the world. People like to get on their high horse and act as if the title belongs to china or N. Korea, and although they all have valid arguments, at least these countries have the decency to keep their problems within their own borders.

America enjoys stepping on other people's toes, and as a former U.S. citizen, I find it both deplorable and embarrassing.

Originally posted by Toltec
Seriously in my humble opinion what 9/11 justifies is the war in Afganistan as well as the current action is Iraq.

Really? How do you figure that?

None of the 9/11 hijackers were of Iraqi descent, and Osama himself has said time and time again that Saddam is not a true Muslim, and that, quote, "Allah will judge him".

15 of the 19 9/11 Hijackers were Saudi Arabian. Two were Egyptian, one was Syrian, and one was Lebanese.

How is Iraq involved in this sir?

Yes Mr. Patriot. Let us not forget why 9/11 took place.

#1: Never put bases on Muslim holy ground

#2: Do not support Israel's terrorist actions (war?) on Palestine.

#3: Do not convince your nation that Muslim=terrorist.

#4: Do not impose unfair trade sanctions against Muslim nations.

9/11 was not the fault of a group of renegade Muslims, nor was it the fault of Bin Laden.

The blame rests squarely on the shoulders of U.S. Foreign Policy.

If you push a group of people around long enough, they bite back. As a former American Citizen, I have to say that I am glad I no longer have to deal with false patriots such as yourself. You are blinded to the truth. You are misled.

[Edited on 26-3-2003 by Kai-Raega]

Nice to see someone from within the fence put the points quite so well. The fact is, if the US doesn't wake up sooner or later, 9/11 will just be the foreword to something a lot more serious.

I've heard the American mindset described as sub-conscious hypocrosy. And that seems to sum it up. If the US don't start dealing with the world in an honest way, it will only do their cause more damage.

As a former American Citizen, I have to say that I am glad I no longer have to deal with false patriots such as yourself. You are blinded to the truth. You are misled.

[Edited on 26-3-2003 by Kai-Raega]

I AM HAPPY YOUR @SS IS GONE. ONE LESS PIECE OF GARBAGE TO LIVE WITH ...NEXT!

USP - another concise argument which has totally changed my point of view on the matter.

Could someone bring Karl back now?

DOM or is DUM? , KARL ,AND Kai-Raega
THE ABOVE IDIOT SHOULD BE WEARING HUMAN SHIELD TEE-SHIRTS.....

[Edited on 26-3-2003 by U.S. Patriot]

Ahhh, the brilliance that is the average American. Although I would be lying if I were to say I was surprised at your rather brash display of idiocy, I am not.

You cannot disprove my facts U.S. Patriot. No matter how hard you try, you know in your heart that I am right, and your inability to logically debate the subject proves that even further.

And yet, they wonder why they are hated all across the world.....

Wow, I see what you mean. I'm definitely now assuming the view that the treatment of US POW's was absolutely unacceptable, and any US/Uk contravention of the Geneva Conventions is totally justifiable under the 9/11 hidden 15.1th clause of the Geneva Conventions...

"Clause 15.1)
All previous clauses in this convention can be disregarded in the event of a terrorist attack against hte US on the 11th of september"

To be honest Iraq applied WMD against its own people and has refused to comply with UN inspections.


To be specific they are a threat to world peace and furthermore, that the UN addressed the issue of Germanys treatment of the Jews. By providing
Israelis with a homeland (thus displacing the Palestinians) but reacts to what Saddam Hussein
did to the Kurds by doing nothing is sad to say a gross abuse of authority (this being perpetrated by the French and German leadership).

The fact that 9/11 was possible, necessitates these issues of Iraq and Afghanistan be addressed.

It is those countries which do not support (specifically most strenuously) action in Iraq which are perpetuating a crime against humanity. One which in reality increases the potential of hostilities, with much greater consequences.


Bottom line the Majority of the masses in arab countries
today are not well educated, that does not mean they are stupid it just means they are not well educated.

But that is going to change.

SLIBRSLIBD

[Edited on 26-3-2003 by Toltec]

U.S. Patriot, you amuse me...much like the ape that flings it's own poo against the cage while onlookers laugh and place their noses to the glass. All you do is put up a line of smiley faces while dom sarcastically rips you to shreds and I attempt to debate you.

I dare you, if you are an intelligent man, disprove my statements. I will then consider you something more then the simian you appear to be.