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One which seeks to justify mans perspective, and thus stubbornly refuses anything but the most selfish .... Why do we reject the divine? and G-d? and universal morality?
(something which could quite easily interpreted as a threat) alongside the suggestion that everyone should all be
This world will never find peace till man learns to submit to G-d;
Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by dontreally
There are still people who murder their children to protec tthe from the devil... or because god told them to..
There are still people hearing the voice of god telling them to go to war..... to take away the choices of others... and force their beliefs upon anyone they see.
So as i see it..... You pitifull G-d is where hes always been... in the minds of the delusional and ignorant.
Originally posted by dontreally
Why does humility get such a bad rap? Why does Machiavelli, Hobbes, Nietzche and others dominate todays common attitute, that humility is unnecessary. That power, and mans right to assume power is of the ultimate importance.
How can we live this way? How can we strip G-d, the unknowable center of our existence, of his rightful soveriegnty?
Why is this even made an issue? I have before me two opinions. One which seeks to justify mans perspective, and thus stubbornly refuses anything but the most selfish. And than theres faith. The capitulation to that inexorable human dimension of feeling, of intuition, that draws us to understand that we are not all there is. That beyond us there is a creator. And that we, being but a flicker of his light, are his creations. This should cause one to feel a profound feeling of gratitude, and love for him, and thus for all creatures.
Why do so many people have to be so stubbornly insistent that our perspective is all that matters? Why do we reject the divine? and G-d? and universal morality?
This world will never find peace till man learns to submit to G-d; and in doing so, he will learn to live wisely,and lovingly with his fellow man, and with creation at large.
Originally posted by JAK
reply to post by dontreally
In reference to humility looking at Socrates statement "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." in support of this we could look at a child starting to gain a knowledge of Maths. Entering into the field of learning the child learns first to count: from that initial knowledge, from that first step through the door other doors immediately appear labelled addition, subtraction, multiplication... and so on. Every piece of understanding gained would seem to open yet more doors, more pathways for consideration. It is through this new found understanding that the pupil recognises just how little they understood before and if opening one door leads to discovering other doors how likely there is yet ever so much more that remains unknown. This is an example of the understanding, the perspective I have heard from numerous people who claim no belief in a supreme God yet one which could be described as quite a logical argument for humility on the part of those who agree. No 'bad rap'.
One which seeks to justify mans perspective, and thus stubbornly refuses anything but the most selfish .... Why do we reject the divine? and G-d? and universal morality?
The first part of the quote above seems to be suggesting any perspective, any position mankind might adopt without the acceptance of God is selfish; that mankind does not hold within himself alone the potential for loving, altruistic actions. Do you really believe that anyone who lives without a belief in your God is only capable of reaching selfish conclusions and is incapable of adopting (perhaps even comprehending?) and acting upon a world view concerned with and based on consideration for their fellows, animals or surroundings?
Also included in the above quote seems to be the suggestion that automatically tied in with a rejection of your perception of God is a rejection of morality as opposed to simply the rejection of a particular idea (or story) which, amongst many other things, offers a particular set of moral guidelines.
I don't think that life without a belief in a God does equates to either a life without the concept of morality or a refusal to live live within certain moral boundaries, in fact it can lead to some fascinating discussion when considered (where do morals come from and how solid, unchanging are they?). I only mean to use this to exemplify a point, but a quick peek at the Catholic Church in the news recently would suggest that there are those who espouse a fervent faith and yet are either unaware or unaccepting of any 'Universal morality'. So, just as it is easily argued that those who declare to live their life under God do not automatically speak with any moral authority I would argue that life without a belief in a God does not automatically equate to a life without the concept of morality or a refusal to live within moral boundaries.
I find suggestion that all those without a religious faith automatically reject or live without the idea of morality absurd. Here's a video you may find quite stimulating: Justice: What's The Right Thing To Do? Episode 01 "THE MORAL SIDE OF MURDER"
It might have some religious significance if you wish it to, for those who do not wish to lay any moral failings at the feet of another but rather accept responsibility for their stance, it may not. That sentence may seem a little harsh but that doesn't mean it was offered with the sole intent of causing offence, it is quite easy to read between the lines though... Statements about the inherent immoral/amoral position of humans without a religious faith such as(something which could quite easily interpreted as a threat) alongside the suggestion that everyone should all be
This world will never find peace till man learns to submit to G-d;bloody,sorry, profoundly grateful, to your idea of God could easily be read as bigoted and holding more potential for damage or hostility than peace.
Do give the video a look.
Here's one thing we might be able to agree upon which I don't think is too outrageous: I won't automatically dismiss the humanity (compassion, empathy, altruism) of another solely due a particular personal belief if you don't.edit on 9/4/11 by JAK because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by dontreally
There are still people who murder their children to protec tthe from the devil... or because god told them to..
There are still people hearing the voice of god telling them to go to war..... to take away the choices of others... and force their beliefs upon anyone they see.
So as i see it..... You pitifull G-d is where hes always been... in the minds of the delusional and ignorant.
Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by dontreally
It depends how you define Humility. Just because one does not believe in or acknowledge the existence of a deity does not make them lacking in humility. True Humility comes from within, not from without.
Humility is admirable, but strictly speaking it does not do much to make one's life better. I much prefer hanging around with people who are humble than those who are arrogant. But still, if you remove the social norms and expectations humility does little to better one's life as an individual.
edit on 9/4/2011 by Dark Ghost because: clarity
Do you really believe that anyone who lives without a belief in your God is only capable of reaching selfish conclusions and is incapable of adopting (perhaps even comprehending?) and acting upon a world view concerned with and based on consideration for their fellows, animals or surroundings?
(something which could quite easily interpreted as a threat) alongside the suggestion that everyone should all be bloody, sorry, profoundly grateful, to your idea of God could easily be read as bigoted and holding more potential for damage or hostility than peace.
Here's one thing we might be able to agree upon which I don't think is too outrageous: I won't automatically dismiss the humanity (compassion, empathy, altruism) of another solely due a particular personal belief if you don't.