Japan Nuclear Crisis Think Tank Project

I wanted to start this thread to start talking about possible solutions. I hope this is the right forum for this and could not find a dedicated thread.

The idea of this think tank is to explore possibilities. Pros/Cons Most importantly to look at options that have not necessarily been considered. For the most part I have seen some very educated informed people on this Site. I also consider that this site is on the "radar" So lets explore some ideas and not necessarily write off anything given with constructive intention.

My first Idea is that if the Fusion reaction were to be sped up ie Tactical Nuke would this release the radiation all at once? Yes I know there would be an enormous dust cloud however it is my understanding that the heat and light energy released in a nuclear explosion catalyzes the release of energy from radioactive material.

Yes there would be fallout but there will be anyways people have been able to return to Nagasaki after that explosion albeit years later. I am suggesting a fast release instead of a slow release. Is this possible? Would the resulting explosion catalyze the radioactive fusion process and release the stored energy as heat and light? If so would this decrease the long term, effect? Again this is one idea. It may be flawed if so lets hear it and some alternative ideas!

reply to post by Shirak


Nuke Japan, how ironic, obvious really!

2nd

reply to post by Shirak


It would cut the island in half if there was anything left of it beside a crater. A megaton bomb may have a couple pounds of Plutonium. We are talking tons of Plutonium and Uranium here. It would be a bomb that would shake the whole earth.

reply to post by Shirak


Do like the Russians did. Drop in a lot of lead bars, that will cool it as they melt and seal it. Then top it off with Concrete. Then move to the bottom of the site and do the same thing. 4000 people died protecting the world from their molten Uranium from hitting the water table bellow and sealing the top. The job is still not done right but it worked.

Japan has drug this out long enough, its high time they get to work.

reply to post by Sky watcher


So are you saying that the amount of radioactive material catalyzed by the fast release would be to large? That's a good point. Its really the active rods that are causing the main problem right now. Would the spent rods enter into the total yield? I was under the impression that the rods undergoing fusion when introduced to a nuclear bomb would accelerate and the radioactive decay.

BTW this is one idea. One thought experiment the point of this thread is to also suggest other ideas and explore other options.

reply to post by Sky watcher


Lead & Bismuth in the form of a rod could be fed (from a distance) through a small hole in containment, or even through an empty fuel rod tube, into a melt pool. This would both dilute and sheild the actinides in the pool. Then it could all be set in concrete.

Originally posted by Sky watcher
reply to post by Shirak

 

Do like the Russians did. Drop in a lot of lead bars, that will cool it as they melt and seal it. Then top it off with Concrete. Then move to the bottom of the site and do the same thing. 4000 people died protecting the world from their molten Uranium from hitting the water table bellow and sealing the top. The job is still not done right but it worked.

Japan has drug this out long enough, its high time they get to work.

I think at some stage the rest of the world needs to step in as this disaster is going to affect the whole planet.
I like the idea of a containment unit. Even more so the type of containment unit which would keep the material shielded long enough to drop it down a redundant mineshaft and return this material to the deep Earth.

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by Sky watcher

 

Lead & Bismuth in the form of a rod could be fed (from a distance) through a small hole in containment, or even through an empty fuel rod tube, into a melt pool. This would both dilute and sheild the actinides in the pool. Then it could all be set in concrete.

edit on 31/3/2011 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

When I worked in a plastic extrusion factory as a Teen they used lead powder in the mix for electric pipes. As it was heated it would form up There may be a way to spray lead in this format if the rod cannot get a straight path to the containment unit. I need to read more about actinides good idea!

My idea has some potential hazards behind it and would take some serious investment/tech from around the globe but I'll throw my hat into the think tank.....

1. Send in radiation shielded 'bots (Probably gonna need a lot of them) and have them remove what rods they can, either putting them in a containment vessel/portable coffin for rapid transport.
2. Jet/Ship the irradiated cargo to the nearest spaceport.
3. Load them onto some heavy duty rockets.
4. Blast them into space.
5. Hope they don't come back or land on a goldilocks zone world.

Massive and costly.
Pending the rockets don't blow or the transport of the rods doesn't go to hell, it may work. ...But I haven't put much thought into it outside of right now and a bit of random musing.

Originally posted by SweetRevenge
My idea has some potential hazards behind it and would take some serious investment/tech from around the globe but I'll throw my hat into the think tank.....

1. Send in radiation shielded 'bots (Probably gonna need a lot of them) and have them remove what rods they can, either putting them in a containment vessel/portable coffin for rapid transport.
2. Jet/Ship the irradiated cargo to the nearest spaceport.
3. Load them onto some heavy duty rockets.
4. Blast them into space.
5. Hope they don't come back or land on a goldilocks zone world.

Massive and costly.
Pending the rockets don't blow or the transport of the rods doesn't go to hell, it may work. ...But I haven't put much thought into it outside of right now and a bit of random musing.

edit on 31-3-2011 by SweetRevenge because: (no reason given)

I like the robot idea. I am sure they are already years ahead of Asimo and the Mule. Deep earth like a redundant diamond mine. Some of these are over 1 km down could be purchased so it would mean we just have to work out how to move the active rods without melting through the container. Ceramics I believe could do it that's what they use for the shuttle tiles.

The just retired a shuttle lets use the available tiles for the interior and an nice 3 foot thick lead outer shell.

Get rid of all the worlds nuke plants and the waste into space.
Replace with environmental power.

I would like society to read up an Tesla and not from Illuminati sources that have pushed
nuclear power on us in the first place.
You do not get Tesla ship performance out of the environment without making the greatest
discover the world has never heard of.
Don't wait too long to load up the ships into deep space.
The environment will always be around so lets use it before more Illuminati excuses about
ETs and UFOs have all the power of the universe because they do not.

As I posted in another thread……..

You don’t have to entomb anything. Just build a concrete wall around the entire power station at a safe distance. Backfill with dirt (on the outside of the wall). Pump several thousand gallons of mud/clay, or heated tar to form a water barrier on the ground. Fill the entire artificial lake with water to where it covers the reactor buildings (and fuel). Then you can work on the system from the top and safely remove the fuel and put it in storage cask working from barges floating on the surface of the lake.

Once fuel is gone, then you can drain everything, and clean up what remains.

Building the wall is the problem, everything else is simple.

Once you get things under water, then you can work on it safely.

That would be a good idea for building new reactors. Build them in a natural, or manmade depression that is deeper than the reactor and storage ponds are tall. Have it lined with clay or tar. If you ever have a catastrophic accident, then just fill the low spot with water and be done with it. You can then take your time to clean it up safely.

I am not a nuclear physicist so I am not 100% certain what kind of effect a Nuclear detonation would have on the reactor site.

But I am fairly confident that the existing nuclear fuel would not contribute to the explosive yield. I think it would contribute to the radioactive fallout alot though.

As for ideas, maybe a giant lead lined dome?

Originally posted by watchitburn
I am not a nuclear physicist so I am not 100% certain what kind of effect a Nuclear detonation would have on the reactor site.

But I am fairly confident that the existing nuclear fuel would not contribute to the explosive yield. I think it would contribute to the radioactive fallout alot though.

As for ideas, maybe a giant lead lined dome?

As I understand it the water being evaporated is generating pressure. Perhaps a dome as such could be placed over the site and water pumped in. The generated steam could then be used to run the plants power till the rod becomes spent.
As I understand Beta radiation is negative electrons perhaps a dome charged with positive ions could help in the absorption?

Originally posted by Mr Tranny
As I posted in another thread……..

You don’t have to entomb anything. Just build a concrete wall around the entire power station at a safe distance. Backfill with dirt (on the outside of the wall). Pump several thousand gallons of mud/clay, or heated tar to form a water barrier on the ground. Fill the entire artificial lake with water to where it covers the reactor buildings (and fuel). Then you can work on the system from the top and safely remove the fuel and put it in storage cask working from barges floating on the surface of the lake.

Once fuel is gone, then you can drain everything, and clean up what remains.

Building the wall is the problem, everything else is simple.

Once you get things under water, then you can work on it safely.

That would be a good idea for building new reactors. Build them in a natural, or manmade depression that is deeper than the reactor and storage ponds are tall. Have it lined with clay or tar. If you ever have a catastrophic accident, then just fill the low spot with water and be done with it. You can then take your time to clean it up safely.

I think that's an excellent idea.. Building reactors to be containable in the event of unforeseen disasters. Essentially making a gate that can close before the horse has bolted. Essentially workers need to be behind about a foot of lead to not be affected by the radiation. I like the immersion idea do you envision starting with a larger perimeter wall then working your way in? I wonder if dredging the nearby coast could be a solution for the some of the concrete requirements.

reply to post by Sky watcher


I'm not an expert but your idea of lead sounds right - however I think what they are
going to do is pour wet cement on the reactors. I read one of the worlds largest
pumps is on its way now. There was concern of the wet cement not being the
thing to do - I hope they think of using lead first.

A good start would be to get rid of the water in the trenches/basement.

1. Dig huge deep hole as near as possible. Pour thick layer of concrete in bottom.

2. Bring in as many water trucks as neccesary. Line them with whatever will help protect drivers. Fill them with the water using long distant pumps.

3. Drive water truck into hole and leave it there.

4. When all water is removed (ie they find the leak and contain). Seal the hole with concrete.

If you properly equip the drivers and allow them a short enough trip this should be able to be done with minimum contamination. Plus it will be quite a treat for archeologists in a couple of thousand years.

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

That lead powder I was referring to that is used in extrusion pipes could be added to the cement mix to give it shielding properties. As the cement is heated the lead would liquefy and bond creating a stronger shield mesh. This would also allow the lead to be pumped in with the concrete.

Originally posted by Shirak
I think that's an excellent idea.. Building reactors to be containable in the event of unforeseen disasters. Essentially making a gate that can close before the horse has bolted. Essentially workers need to be behind about a foot of lead to not be affected by the radiation. I like the immersion idea do you envision starting with a larger perimeter wall then working your way in? I wonder if dredging the nearby coast could be a solution for the some of the concrete requirements.

Once you build the outer perimeter wall and backfill it so that I could support a water fill, then you don’t have to “move in” from there.

Once the water covers the reactors, and fuel rods, then the radiation will drop to nothing. You don’t need any shielding any more. The water is your shielding. Just the same as the water is the shielding when they are doing work in the reactor core, and storage pond. Once you get water in, you can take as long as you want. You can put barges on the “lake” with remote controlled grappling and cutting systems (ROV’s and hoist), then get to work. The operators are on the barges. The stuff they are controlling, is in the water. Tank the spent fuel into storage casks, and get it out of there. Unbolt the reactors, and see what the condition of the fuel is. If it can be pulled, then pull, it tank it in casks, and get it out of there. If it can’t be removed from the reactors. Use remote controlled jackhammers and cutting equipment to tear apart the rector building and make a “BIG CASK” and stick the reactor vessel in, and get it out of there. If you wanted to cut apart the reactor vessel in the “lake” and stick the remnants into smaller cask, then you could do that.

Once you get all the “Hot” stuff out, then drain the lake. Look for any remaining “overlooked” stuff. Then get the wrecking crew in and razz the place. A nice clean field will be all that is left.


If you have plenty of dirt available, then you could also build an earthen dam around the place to support the water fill, but it would leak more, and take more water pumping volume to keep it filled.

Originally posted by Mr Tranny
As I posted in another thread……..

You don’t have to entomb anything. Just build a concrete wall around the entire power station at a safe distance. Backfill with dirt (on the outside of the wall). Pump several thousand gallons of mud/clay, or heated tar to form a water barrier on the ground. Fill the entire artificial lake with water to where it covers the reactor buildings (and fuel). Then you can work on the system from the top and safely remove the fuel and put it in storage cask working from barges floating on the surface of the lake.

Once fuel is gone, then you can drain everything, and clean up what remains.

Building the wall is the problem, everything else is simple.

Once you get things under water, then you can work on it safely.

That would be a good idea for building new reactors. Build them in a natural, or manmade depression that is deeper than the reactor and storage ponds are tall. Have it lined with clay or tar. If you ever have a catastrophic accident, then just fill the low spot with water and be done with it. You can then take your time to clean it up safely.

The problem is that the radioactive fuel is generating heat. Submerging the reactor won't cool it down. The water will boil, lofting radioactive elements with it. Even if you dumped the cores in the ocean, they would still run for hundreds of years producing radioactive pollution.