Freemasons - I have a few questions.

Originally posted by jrstock
I saw 'satanist'. Do not imply else wise.

Whatever you saw, "Satanist" was not there at the time you posted, and had not been since April 15th. Check the revision history for yourself.

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213

Originally posted by jrstock
I saw 'satanist'. Do not imply else wise.

Whatever you saw, "Satanist" was not there at the time you posted, and had not been since April 15th. Check the revision history for yourself.

Do not push the issue. I KNOW what I read. Time line or not. Period.

reply to post by jrstock


You may have read it on April 15th, but it was not there on April 26th, as you claimed.

Do not push the issue.

Imagine if a Mason had said that to anyone here...

For a moment, what if Pike was a satanist? By freewill. Would it discredit his body of work? Would such a fact turn some of you Christian masons away from the craft? I will continue to examine both sides of this issue.

reply to post by jrstock


In my opinion, it would make no difference. It is just semantics. If a man believes in the same morals as I do, and if he lives his life by that good set of morals, I don't care what characters he plugs into his religious story.

Some satanists believe almost identically to Christians, they just believe the Bible has been altered and some characters changed. To me, that is inconsequential, as long as the messages are still delivered properly, and the lessons about how to treat your fellow man are learned.

NOW, let me ask you the same question. If Pike was a satanist, would that change your opinion of me as a Mason?

Originally posted by jrstock
\Do not push the issue. I KNOW what I read. Time line or not. Period.

NO.

I AM going to push the issue, since you bring it up.

The Wikipedia article said that Pike was a Satanist for exactly one hour an eleven minutes on the evening of April 15th. The edit making the claim was made by someone with the IP # 68.68.74.10 and that edit is the only change ever made to Wikipedia from that address.

So, which is more likely. That YOU made the edit yourself to fan the flames, regardless of your claims to examine both sides of the issue? Or that you just happened to be reading Pike's article in the 71 minutes that vandalism was live? (And a reminder, ATS stores the IP #s associated with all posts, so it would be easy for an admin here to find out the truth...)

reply to post by getreadyalready

No.

Originally posted by jrstock
For a moment, what if Pike was a satanist?

For the purposes of this argument, I'll assume you mean the Chick tract version of Satanism and not any of the philosophies calling themselves Satanic that actually exist.

Would it discredit his body of work?

It would so fundamentally alter his body of work that whether it would be discredited is not an answerable question. Simply put, the philosophy stated in Pike's works cannot be reconciled with a worship of the embodiment of evil.

Would such a fact turn some of you Christian masons away from the craft?

Pike had no influence on any of the bodies of which I am a member, so no. It might give me pause while considering the Scottish Rite, but, as before, I'd probably just take his philosophy for what it's worth and disregard what I disagree with (you know, like any Mason already does).

I will continue to examine both sides of this issue.

It would help you to start with the truth.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by jrstock
\Do not push the issue. I KNOW what I read. Time line or not. Period.

NO.

I AM going to push the issue, since you bring it up.

The Wikipedia article said that Pike was a Satanist for exactly one hour an eleven minutes on the evening of April 15th. The edit making the claim was made by someone with the IP # 68.68.74.10 and that edit is the only change ever made to Wikipedia from that address.

So, which is more likely. That YOU made the edit yourself to fan the flames, regardless of your claims to examine both sides of the issue? Or that you just happened to be reading Pike's article in the 71 minutes that vandalism was live? (And a reminder, ATS stores the IP #s associated with all posts, so it would be easy for an admin here to find out the truth...)

No, I did not edit that information. Fanning no flames. Reminder: I am not taking sides of the for or against the mason issue.

I will continue to examine both sides of this issue.

It would help you to start with the truth. The information pertaining to this subject (craft) and its believers and detractors is great. Both sides must be explored. Is there much backlash public or otherwise in your local area, or is it mainly on internet forum's?

Originally posted by jrstock
No, I did not edit that information. Fanning no flames. Reminder: I am not taking sides of the for or against the mason issue.

Then I will take you at your word.

Originally posted by jrstock
For a moment, what if Pike was a satanist?

For a moment, what if pigs could fly? What if the grass were blue and the sky was green?

Would it discredit his body of work?

Well, yes, since Pike's body of work is about God, and since Pike stated clearly that he did not believe in the existence of Satan.

Originally posted by jrstock


The information pertaining to this subject (craft) and its believers and detractors is great. Both sides must be explored.

I agree, but attempts to tar Pike with Satanism have no basis in fact, and will not be part of any productive endeavor. The same goes for Jim Shaw's anti-Masonic screeds; he's a proven liar.

Is there much backlash public or otherwise in your local area, or is it mainly on internet forum's?

It's almost entirely confined to the Internet. I've never met an anti-Mason face-to-face.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by jrstock
For a moment, what if Pike was a satanist?

For a moment, what if pigs could fly? What if the grass were blue and the sky was green? Bird droppings would be the least of a fussy auto owners problems. Most men are color blind to an extent.

Would it discredit his body of work?

Well, yes, since Pike's body of work is about God, and since Pike stated clearly that he did not believe in the existence of Satan.

I am hoping that some Masons are still checking this topic.
Because I myself, have a few questions, concerning joining the order.

Well all I can really say, is that I am interrested in joining the Freemasons and have been for a long time.
But it is not unti recently, that I feel like I have the maturity and right point of view, to do so.

So here are my questions (It would be perfect, if there were some swedish masons out there):
You see, I just recently moved to Ljusdal in Sweden, from Denmark. And I was wondering what "official" orders there are around that area? I am not too familiar with Sweden yet. Which leads me to my next question:
Is talking swedish a MUST? or can I get by with my english or danish, untill I pick up on the swedish language?
Is it even possible for me to join a swedish order of freemasons as a danish?
Seeing as I do not know any freemasons myself, is it impossible for me to get in? I heard that others have to "put in a good word" for you, or something like that.

Any other tips you could share? Or things you feel I should know, before starting this little adventure?

reply to post by needlenight


I am no expert on the Swedish Lodges, but here is a link to the Grand Lodge of Sweden. I'm sure if you emailed them, they would be happy to answer your questions.

Grand Lodge of Sweden

I will mention though that the Swedish Rite is unique in that it is strictly a Christian fraternity. In most other jurisdictions, the fraternity is universalistic.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Thank you very much. But what a pity that it is only christian. I dont hold any firm belief. I do believe in some kind of god. But I dont follow a specific religion. Only the most basic; "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Which is what I have seen is repeated across most religions.

But maybe I should wait, untill I move to Washington DC in a few years. Maybe then I will be even more ready to join the order.

reply to post by Masonic Light


I've never understood why jurisdictional sovereignty can't be waived in the Swedish Rite countries, or if it can, why the UGLE hasn't helped set up universalist Grand Lodges.

reply to post by OnTheLevel213


I guess (take note of guess) that it is because, the masons set up all across the world, several years back. And here in scandinavia it was the kings, who took charge of it. And made the changes they deemed was neccesary. And people stuck do that.
Cant know for sure though.