Dear atheist, I thank you...

It used to be that the atheist was annoyed and almost angered by the spiritualists desire to enthusiastically spread the word of his or her particular belief...

This was one of the problems with religion. People got so caught up in there own personal belief and were so excited to recruit others to pursue their cause, that they were not respectful of the God given right that is born in all of us; free will.

As a result, for every one new member they were able to recruit they angered and scared away nine.

Another problem with "religion" is that they are all arrogant in their personal set of beliefs, they are convinced without a shadow of a doubt that only their particular group is on the right path. Only their particular sect has been blessed with the "truth".

This way of thinking is by definition both arrogant and ignorant.

What makes me laugh is that the new "religion" is atheism. It isn't believers in Christ or God attempting to boast their absolute knowledge of anything. It is non believers that are recruiting now, it is non believers that are arrogant in their personal beliefs.

The reason this makes me laugh is because it is this very action, this "new religion" and its members eagerness to attack the virtues and beliefs of others that validates our belief in God to begin with.

You see whether you admit it or not, your desire to spread your lack of belief like a plague of ignorance was foreseen and written in ancient texts by profits guided by the very God you speak against.

So my dear atheist, I thank you for your passion, for your desire to discourage my beliefs, for it is your passion that has fueled that of my own.

Isn't it convenient that your religion, among others, have some sort of scripture detailing how in the future there will be people that doubt that religion is "true"? It's convenient how each religion has some form of scripture ensuring that non-believers are just simply wrong and have been predicted (ofcourse there will be people that don't agree)

reply to post by Somehumanbeing


You see, to me the predictions are the validation sone people need to keep their faith strong.

You make it seem like this is the only thing religions predict.

But also you missed my point, it used to be the bible bangers forcing their beliefs on others, now it's the atheists that spread their belief like a plague of ignorance...

To be fare, it's not all atheists either, just a bunch of them.

reply to post by sparda4355


Well i'm not saying that's the only thing they predict, it just seems that this thing is a form of fail-safe to ensure no-one can discourage you from your belief, something akin to "If you don't believe in my religion, that means my religion is correct!"

Regardless, I don't really care anymore man, all the power to you if it makes you feel better to follow your religion. I dislike the excessively outspoken atheists as much as I dislike the excessively outspoken christians/muslims/hindus/etc - both ignorant fools.

reply to post by Somehumanbeing


I do see your point and I do agree... I just think it can go both ways, yes they could just say to look out for false profits so when they rise it's self fulfilling prophecy, and it could also be that a profit saw this and is just giving a legit warning...

But I'm glad we agree on the arrogance aspect of my thread thank you for the replies!

You're welcome, I guess. If you want to be that way, Thank you to all the Christians who made me realize that my life is 1 million times better now that I'm not afraid of going to hell for having unmarried sex with my girlfriend & that genetic manipulation really IS the truth, the light & the path to salvation.

I am a religionist, not an athiest.

But, I don't buy the "athiest is just another religion" argument, any more than I buy "bald is just another hair color." Athiesm and religon share some qualities -- they both make methaphysical and ontological statements, for example -- but in other ways they are too different to be considered compeletely the same.

I do know what the OP is getting at, though...there are "militant athiests" every bit as annoying as the most insistant missionary out there.

reply to post by silent thunder


Not saying that all atheists are one and the same... But there is literally a church of atheism...

firstchurchofatheism.com...

And a lot of atheists are out there recruiting atheists like the military recruits soldiers... It has in fact become an organized religion, but not all atheists partake in the customs and rituals... Much like not all Christians are religious followers... Etc. Etc. Etc.

reply to post by AnitaCigarette


You wouldn't go to hell for having unmarried sex with your girlfriend as a Christian, hence the whole Jesus death cross sin thing...

But if you are truly happy in your beliefs, all the power to you!

They are yours to have...

Thanks for the reply, and God bless!

Originally posted by sparda4355
reply to post by silent thunder

 

Not saying that all atheists are one and the same... But there is literally a church of atheism...

firstchurchofatheism.com...

And a lot of atheists are out there recruiting atheists like the military recruits soldiers... It has in fact become an organized religion, but not all atheists partake in the customs and rituals... Much like not all Christians are religious followers... Etc. Etc. Etc.

Hahaha, sounds like an oxymoron to me "Church of Atheism"

Church = public worship of god or a religious service in such a building
Atheism = disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Originally posted by silent thunder
I am a religionist, not an athiest.

But, I don't buy the "athiest is just another religion" argument, any more than I buy "bald is just another hair color." Athiesm and religon share some qualities -- they both make methaphysical and ontological statements, for example -- but in other ways they are too different to be considered compeletely the same.

I do know what the OP is getting at, though...there are "militant athiests" every bit as annoying as the most insistant missionary out there.

edit on 3/30/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)

Couldn't be said better.

My own hope is, that it will become clear to mankind eventually, that ideologies per se, no matter how bizarre and absurd they may seem to be from some perspectives, aren't the real problem.

Those with mindsets bordering on the sociopathic, (mis)using various ideologies as an excuse and possibly a remedy for their own existential disharmony, and expressing this through missionary invasive attitudes and methods, are the real problem.

Practically I'm a rather middle-of-the-road person in social contexts, keeping social contracts and accepting liberal democratic co-sensus.

Though by temperament and from curiosity I have all my long life moved in groups and ideologies on the fringe of mainstream, and to some extent shared some fringe ideals and practices. I've even been somewhat pioneering in some areas myself, though with moderate attitudes on 'spreading' messages.

In practically all of these ideological or idealistic movements there is a group of militants, who have seen the light and who endlessly mission rather intensively for the cause. Often on very uncompromising and confrontational terms.

It would be a great step forward if each movement, ideology or group cleaned its own backyard from such extremist elements, instead of delegating this job to oppositional groups. Opposing militants acting as spearheads will only add to polarized positions, which extremism can use for a divide and conquer tactic.

reply to post by bogomil


Well stated my friend, well stated...

This all started as a local "war" among aquaintences... You can't say anything about God, church, prayer, without being told by some atheist that your efforts are futile... Mocked, hurrassed, etc...

It hit me that the tables have turned, for years churches and religions have made it their mission to recruit all others to their particular belief structure... Now it's the atheists forcing their beliefs... Being insensitive to others right to choose their own belief.

They say they are not a religion, yet they have a church, the tree of e they put up yearly, they have an organized higharchy of order, etc... In an attempt to mock religion, they have formulated their own.

It's like the "I'm not like everybody else" group in high school, in an attempt to be different, they are just like all the others trying so hard to stand out and be different... Ie: they became just like everybody else, part of a group...

Originally posted by sparda4355
What makes me laugh is that the new "religion" is atheism. It isn't believers in Christ or God attempting to boast their absolute knowledge of anything. It is non believers that are recruiting now, it is non believers that are arrogant in their personal beliefs.

What about the atheists who don't try to force their beliefs on others? Are they still members of this "new religion"? See, there are PEOPLE of all walks who will try to make others behave or believe in a way that suits their beliefs. Some atheists do push their "religion" I agree. But the vast majority of us don't care. In fact, I support religion and the practice of it. I just don't do it myself.

On the other hand, the very essence of some religions is to testify and try to convert people to that religion. There is nothing about atheism that encourages this act. It's an individual choice and has nothing to do with atheism itself.

Be careful of painting with such a broad brush.
.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You only quoted part of what I said... I already stated that this isn't all atheists, and whether it's the majority or minority of atheists that push their beliefs, I would argue that this is based on perspective...

Not all atheists are part of this new age religion and not all Christians are religious, not all Muslims are radicals, and scientoligists are total weirdo whack jobs... (I think?)

Wait, are you saying..That a group of people with a certain set of core beliefs, has some members amongst it's ranks that try to convince you into their way of thinking. People do that?
Is there a cable channel yet?

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Wait, are you saying..That a group of people with a certain set of core beliefs, has some members amongst it's ranks that try to convince you into their way of thinking. People do that?
Is there a cable channel yet?

Cable channel will come soon enough... And, I'm saying atheism is a new religion... One with a church, leaders, customs, etc....

You are welcome OP. I consider it my duty to challenge any religious belief that is presented to me as truth/fact until I force the believers of said religion to utterly crumble until the only thing they have to fall back on is the word "Faith". Once I paint you into your faith corner then you can no longer poison and corrupt the well of Science.

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps


Then I accept your challenge, please try to paint me into a corner!

Let's start with this mr science, if it all started with a big bang, what caused the bang??? How's that for a corner?

Originally posted by sparda4355
reply to post by bogomil

 

Well stated my friend, well stated...

This all started as a local "war" among aquaintences... You can't say anything about God, church, prayer, without being told by some atheist that your efforts are futile... Mocked, hurrassed, etc...

It hit me that the tables have turned, for years churches and religions have made it their mission to recruit all others to their particular belief structure... Now it's the atheists forcing their beliefs... Being insensitive to others right to choose their own belief.

They say they are not a religion, yet they have a church, the tree of e they put up yearly, they have an organized higharchy of order, etc... In an attempt to mock religion, they have formulated their own.

It's like the "I'm not like everybody else" group in high school, in an attempt to be different, they are just like all the others trying so hard to stand out and be different... Ie: they became just like everybody else, part of a group...

I think, that I have to emphasize that my support was of this....

Quote from Silent thunder:

["But, I don't buy the "athiest is just another religion" argument, any more than I buy "bald is just another hair color." Athiesm and religon share some qualities -- they both make methaphysical and ontological statements, for example -- but in other ways they are too different to be considered compeletely the same."]

and not of the OP as a whole.

Also that my general attitude is, that invasive extremism from ALL sides is a big problem, imo THE big problem. From this perspective I am as critical to atheists establishing an ideological spearhead with black/white alternative as the only options..

.. as I am to religious 'evangelists' who similarly take the stance, that .......stalinism, gnostic atheism, agnostic atheism, secularism, liberalism, democracy, science, logic, reductionist materialist 'scientism', sometimes semi-religious competitors and those who simply don't give a darn, .... can be put in a single category, which conveniently can be processed through a semantic blender and come out as a uniform and homogenized 'enemy'.

An 'enemy' which then collectively can be defined from its worst pre-blending manifestations.

Apart from the academic 'agree to disagree' where opposition is abstract and not totalitarian, the functional approach is to direct criticism at the invasive extremist elements, who want to interfere in other peoples' lives directly, not at a vague inductive category.

So I suggest you find a balance between these two quotes from your later posts:

Quote 1: ["Not all atheists are part of this new age religion and not all Christians are religious, not all Muslims are radicals, and scientoligists are total weirdo whack jobs... (I think?)"]

And

Quote 2: ["And, I'm saying atheism is a new religion... One with a church, leaders, customs, etc...."]

And then actively demonstrate this balanced position by directing your posts at more precise targets. As it is now, you COULD come across as a whiner with a general christian persecution complex.

I am e.g. a strong critic, academically of the bible and associated doctrines and socially of evangelistic christianity, bit I'm not represented by spearhead atheism.

reply to post by bogomil


Ok I was going to defend my statement that atheism is a religion... Not as in, belief of a god... But as in a organization that has formed rituals, a higharchy of order, a bible, somebody they warship (Darwin), a supernatural belief structure (the big bang existing before the existence of anything), recruiters, etc...

Not saying all atheists are part of this (as I stated), but the atheist movement/religion has been formed!

But I guess this argument has grown tired... Despite physical evidence, the debate never ends!