Challenge to Nibiru Believers

reply to post by lestweforget


I find it humorous you would phrase things the way you did. My question would be simply what do you call the numerous threads by Nibiru believers asking us to prove them wrong? To me that would be the same thing, so you are in fact stating that anyone who has a set belief and asks others to prove them wrong is in fact trolling?

reply to post by grindhouzer


Your image accomplished the exact same thing mine did. It showed that there was not an alignment. An alignment is not off by an inch, half an inch, or even a fraction of an inch. An alignment is in line with one another. You also just proved that I am in fact using the software correctly. I just didn't rotate it to make it look more in line.

reply to post by Tayesin


I agree with you 100%. As I said in the original post this is kind of turn about is fair play. I mean there have been a few threads where they want astronomers to prove them wrong, or others to prove them wrong, so I wanted to turn the tables and say prove it's true. I do not see the harm in it, nor do I consider it "Trolling" as one person stated. I mean I am just asking the same question as this thread just in reverse format.

Lets try to get this fact clear - Amateur Astronomers Spotting NIBIRU,

So I just turned it the other way.

reply to post by Mercurio


I actually have no problem believing there was another planet that was seen by the Sumarians, nor do I disagree that the planet may still exist. The things that I have a problem with this is that I do not think the planet exists anymore. Anything with that long of a orbit and that elliptical of an orbit is more then likely to have been flung off into space somewhere by now. Kind of like a story I read awhile back about a Rogue planet being found floating through space that had actually switched galaxies. So the theory is sound and the possibility is real. I do not believe the planet exists anymore, and even if on some remote chance it actually did hit Earth years ago then chances are the planet was flung out into space like a ping pong ball.

I am not ridiculing anyone. I am genuinely interested in finding out how Elenin has become the new Nibiru. I mean the Sumarians described Nibiru as being a planet 3 x the mass of Jupiter, so are we to now believe because it hasn't shown up that the Comet is the remnants of Nibiru? As I showed earlier there is an article with the guy that discovered the Comet from Novemeber of 2010 (not December) and he even identified the comet as possibly a exuberation of an older Comet. So I guess I fail to see the correlation; Not to mention the theory of a "Comet" affecting the gravity of a planet is frankly ludicris. That is almost as bad as the scare in 1910 with Haley's Comet.

As Haley's Comet approached the sun in 1910, astronomers announced that Earth would actually pass through the tail of this comet during May of that year. They assured everyone that our planet was safe and suggested the possibility of some spectacular sunsets. Meanwhile, the doomsayers latched onto a potential link: if comets contain a poisonous gas and if Earth is going to pass through the comet's tail, then the people of Earth were in serious danger

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz
The reason why people continue to 'ignore, shun, or passover' your question is because your facts are so far off (or skewed) that it doesn't even make sense to take the time to try and explain/debate, for most folks. Just being honest.

[3 pages of replies, only 6 flags and stars should be an indicator of that]

But, I will attempt to, now - if some of this has already been repeated, GOOD! (You need to hear it twice)

My understanding is that the planet in question is supposed to either come very close to hitting Earth or it is going to hit Earth in and around the date 12-21-2012.

The problem here is two-fold: [(IF, it were to exist] It doesn't need to come anywhere NEAR that close (hitting) to have a dramatic affect on us. Think about the moon's effect on the tides and tectonic plate activity, alone.

The other problem is you are trying to combine theories, as many others do. The Mayan calendar date has nothing to do with Nibiru (as far as anyone knows). The Mayan calendar has more to do with the acceleration of information/consciousness than anything else. And, the Mayan's 1) were not the only ones to use this calendar, and 2) did not create it. The came accross it (as other civs did) but were able to more accurately chart and record it. The question everyone should be asking is, WHY...? (was it created. What's the significance - someone created it for a REASON and the date resets 12/21/2012, or thereabouts)

The funniest thing about this date to me by the way is that it was first created as a hype on the X-files and later became what it is now.

This is simply ridiculous. First, you think the X-Files television show 'created' or was the first to examine this 'myth' - this is by far the most incredibly un-informed thing I've heard in awhile.

First, the "Nibiru" idea has been around at least as its largest propenent, Zecharia Sitchin, who wrote about it in 1976.

Second, you have it backwards, with the X-files. Yes, they have some creative writers, but I think if you do the research, you'll find that most of their ideas have at least SOME basis in reality. They are "X Files" - almost every topic they have ever covered has some history behind it. They get their ideas from real life, Nnot the other way around.

If this planet is going to do the things it is proclaimed to do then why hasn't it moved? That is my biggest argument. These spots next to the sun have been in videos dating back to early last year at least on Youtube. Do you realize this same mass is in the exact same spot even now in the newer videos? I find it hard to believe that it is going to suddenly jump and fly towards Earth like a bowling ball being prematurely released. This extreme epillictical orbit that runs around 3000 years that everyone speaks of seems to be very stable as it has never moved at all.

This part I tend to agree with - even if this entity DID exist, about 90% of the 'evidence' out there is just silly.


Now... having said all this, I have still not shown that Nibiru exists, but I have at least (hopefully, along with others) educated you a little more on the matter.

I will ask you, now, to also, consider the following on the subject...

1) First off, here's a quick question: Why is there NO mention of the Kolbrin Bible on Wikipedia? As far as I can tell the civs/religions that contributed to the txt are all legit? Even if they weren't, I see no reason why something as popularly speculated (and hotly contested) as this would not find it's way into the world's largest repository for knowledge in the world(?!)

2) Supression of information is a factor to be considered for sure - it is rumored that in one way or another, The Vatican, NSA or other secretive governing body is heavily involved in both the ownership and/or filtering of data from the majority of the major telescopes, regardless as to whether publicly or privately owned - and it's not just limited to Nibiru. There are other 'projects' that complain regularly that "the data IS there, but not being released" (moon base advocates, for example) - the biggest argument from most detractors is "WHERE IS IT?" - we should definitely see it by now [even though it IS a brown dwarf and most amateur scopes will probably not see it] - can't say I don't partially agree with this sentiment, tho.

Side note re: the Vatican, you may find it interesting that - directly from Vatican Film Library informational pamphlet: From July 2007, the library has been temporarily closed to the public for rebuilding, which is expected to be completed by September 2010, still remiains closed.

So, it's been closed for 3 years and still isn't open - how incredibly convenient, for the world's largest and most complete archives of human history be off limits at such a critical time...

3) In 2009, right about the time when (the numbers say) people shouldve been complaining that 'if Nibiru were coming, we would see it by now' there was a massive disinformation campaign launched against supporters who were supposedly providing solid evidence that it was in fact on the way. (YouTube (Nibirushock2012) I'm still not sure I buy this whole theory anyway - only suspiscious thing I've ever read about this, [other than THIS bullet] is #3, below, but you have to ask the question: why would someone go to the trouble of disproving a theory considered too wild all by itself, to begin with?! And, the people who launched this campagin had a LOT of access, and a LOT of know-how - and likely had a team of hackers working in total concert as they took over accounts and shutdown others (?) - why all the effort?!

[Edit today: You can find a bunch of threads here on ATS (I just found, while looking for this post) about the NibiruShock videos, possible hoax, and even 'coming clean' right here on ATS - it is pretty clear that no one believes the person using the same name to be the same person.]

3) The 1983 Washington Post article that was published and then immediately retracted (rumored under force/threat) - I WAS able to find that link: planet-x.150m.com...

For your convenience, I have posted an excerpt, below - I'm sure most have seen this before. Remember this was countered, vehemently and immediately...
_________________

By Thomas O'Toole, Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 30, 1983 ; Page A1

A heavenly body possibly as large as the giant planet Jupiter and possibly so close to Earth that it would be part of this solar system has been found in the direction of the constellation Orion by an orbiting telescope aboard the U.S. infrared astronomical satellite.

So mysterious is the object that astronomers do not know if it is a planet, a giant comet, a nearby "protostar" that never got hot enough to become a star, a distant galaxy so young that it is still in the process of forming its first stars or a galaxy so shrouded in dust that none of the light cast by its stars ever gets through.

"All I can tell you is that we don't know what it is," Dr. Gerry Neugebauer, IRAS chief scientist for California's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and director of the Palomar Observatory for the California Institute of Technology, said in an interview.
__________

Personally, I still think this notion of a companion Star is not such a far fetched idea. After all, most scientists have come way around on their line of thinking that MOST stars are part of a binary or multi star system.

Why should the Sun be any different? Maybe they just have the timing wrong? (regarding orbital period)

But, it would explain a few things. A large object flying by our solar system, would definitely have an impact (not a collision, necessarily, although, explain the asteroid belt!) much like described in the bible, and texts of other religions: massive tidal changes causing flooding, contaminating water supplies, bringing disease, and tectonic plate activity causing tsunamis, earthquakes, and volcano eruptions. Sound a little familiar?

Regardless of WHAT people want to call it, or WHEN they think its perihelion is, an object is likely out there, SOMEwhere that will have an impact on us at some point in the future (that is to say, a repeat visitor on an elliptical orbit)

I had this huge response written out and the page refreshed and I lost everything, and to be honest it's not worth going through all the trouble again.

My main arguments. The near miss/collision was brought up and introduced by Nancy Leider and the Zeta's back in 1995 in which she originally stated a collision/near miss for 1998, then for 2001, then for 2003, and finally moved it up to match with the pop sci-fi date of 2012 based on a calendar that have a greatly exaggerated mythical intelligence. They were certainly not the first nor the last to study the stars and the planets. Yes the calendar was awesome but far from a sign of extra intelligence that humans now do not share. The calendar ended that was it. The Calendar was more then likely to start over as everything in Mayan Culture was about cycles. I frankly am not going to go through the time and energy to link sources again.

Mayan religion grew primarily out of the milpas agriculture which required accurate predictions of time and accommodation to the cycles of life in the rain-forest. There is one overwhelming aspect to Mayan religion: it is based on accommodating humanity to the cycles of the universe. The universe functions in a logical, cyclical, and predictable way; human beings can exploit that cyclical nature by accommodating themselves to these cycles.

Source

Not the best source but it's from an educational link and frankly a bit more merit there then from other conspiracy/psychic sites.

As for the X-files thing yes sure they were based on stuff that may or may not be true. None of which you have any proof of and you are basing this on theories that I do not prescribe too. Kind of like that theory that Stargate was really real and there really is a Stargate and the US Military had a war with aliens in Antartica because why else would they have an expeditionary force travel down there. The main reason the military went to Antartica that was not public knowledge at least in my time in the service was to investigate large flashes that were seen on radar indicative of Nuclear Detonations made by South Africa due to possible sell/transport of Nuclear weapons to the South Africans by the Israeli's. No I was not part of the expedition but my CO told me about it.

Back to the X-Files the only reason I quoted that is because I read it on a letter to the public from a Microbiologist from NASA and honestly I had never heard of the 2012 thing until a few years ago, and well it made sense. This was however in the X-files supposed to be the final colonization of Earth by the Alien race that had been collaborating with our government for years. Basically I wasn't all that interested in doing tons of research on something that honestly makes no sense.

Your remark about the lack of facts is almost laughable considering most believers in Nibiru and 2012 get there facts from people who they don't even know that post a video on You tube of a Sun Dog and have absolute zero when it comes to credentials. It is almost as funny as the 9Narnia girl that everyone is proclaiming the next Nostradamus based on one semi-accurate prediction that doesn't even have her facts right. Then people assume just because she said she was "heading for the hills" that she did. Honestly you have no idea who this woman is and all she has to do is make a new You tube account and as far as you know she did exactly what she said she did. So hitting me for facts as I said is laughable.

As for the Vatican there are books hidden in there that will never see the light of day whether the library is open. The church does not openly admit things they don't want the good Catholics to know. Such as Exorcisms, untold stories of Christ, Names of Demons that aren't supposed to be spoken, and a lot of other stuff that they don't want you to see and or have disavowed.

The bottom line is that most people will look for an explanation of something they don't understand and frankly most of us, myself included, don't understand what is happening in the world right now. We haven't been alive as long as the world has been around and there is no way for us to know the entire history of the planet that science hasn't discovered yet. So frankly we don't know what this planet is capable of and while it is always nice to blame an outside force or supernatural force the truth is usually much less interesting.

I've found that Fractal Time Dates
correlate the (recent and closer) dates with many interesting patterns with western zodiac charts..

I've also applied the secondary asteroids to include Chiron the 'planetoid'. The significance to this celestial body within our solar system is explained here.. (as many of you know, it played a major role in the Harmonic Concordance)

I've found this chart generator to include Chiron among other secondary asteroids.

I've noticed that Chiron will come pretty close to Aquarius in early November of this year.. and then begins to pull away.. I wonder what kind of influence Elenin will have on this chart as it approaches. The sign that we are entering the Age of Aquarius??! I'm all ears for insights !