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Something that didn't make the news

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posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 09:03 AM
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I would like to see more of these stories on the news or through the media personally. Or something along the lines of helping to donate to the troops who are low on supplies and their morale is down.


Maybe you'd like to hear about something other than idiot MPs and naked Iraqis.

Maybe you'd like to hear about a real American, somebody who honored the Uniform he wears.

Meet Brian Chontosh.

Churchville-Chili Central School class of 1991. Proud graduate of the Rochester Institute of Technology. Husband and about-to-be father. First lieutenant in the United States Marine Corps.

And a genuine hero. The secretary of the Navy said so yesterday.

www.blackfive.net...


[edit on 23-7-2004 by Banshee]

[edit on 23-7-2004 by delta74dragon]




posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 09:30 AM
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delta74dragon: Touching story, very Rambo.


Let me ask you something. Why did he do all this? What reason? Was he trying to free people who have lived under the shackles of slavery for years?

Was he fighting for the oppressed? Was he battling an invading army of bloodthirsty enemies?

No, he was fighting his way out of an ambush. And he's actually fighting an illegal, immoral war, and while the fact that he killed 20 enemies (grrr, yay! go USA!), he's there as an Illegal Occupier.


And by the way, the REASON why you get so much reporting of doom and gloom in Iraq is because, and here's a newsflash for ya:

IT IS MOSTLY DOOM AND GLOOM IN IRAQ!!!

Don't blame the media, blame reality.



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 09:43 AM
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Well aren't we in good spirits today!

He is fighting for the same reason that most of the people who volunteered to sign up for the military are. They believe in something, whether it be doing their part for a country that gives them many freedoms, or that they have a family and will do whatever they can to make sure that they are always protected. Of course when you join you understand that you could be instructed to go to war that you may not think is right but that is part of signing the dotted line. It was his choice to sign up as it was mine. If you don't agree with it don't join.

Whether you think the war is illegal, really doesn't mean squat. He shouldn't be looked upon differently because he is there fighting a war that may be illegal in your opinion.



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 09:54 AM
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Jokomo, have you been to Iraq? Hmmm, didn't think so. The doom and gloom being reported is not, I repeat IS NOT! the way everything is over there. Majority of places are peaceful and are rebuilding and upgrading exisiting infrastructer. You sound very much like a true peacenik from Vietnam "The soldiers are baby killers..." blah blah blah. They simply signed up for a job, and are doing their job as their boss tells them. This man did fight bravely, and for you to try to demean that is pure crap! I say to you, go to Iraq and ask a true Iraqi citizen if they want the US to leave....I want to hear their answer.



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 10:25 AM
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hhensley:

I say to you, go to Iraq and ask a true Iraqi citizen if they want the US to leave....I want to hear their answer.


Um, are you insane?

www.news24.com...


Washington - More than nine out of 10 Iraqis consider US-led forces as occupiers, and a strong majority think their country would be safer if the coalition forces left, according to a poll commissioned by the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA).


www.usatoday.com...


Only a third of the Iraqi people now believe that the American-led occupation of their country is doing more good than harm, and a solid majority support an immediate military pullout even though they fear that could put them in greater danger, according to a new USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll.


www.guardian.co.uk...


Over 80% of Iraqis want US and other foreign forces to stop patrolling their cities and make their presence less visible by withdrawing to bases, according to the latest survey by Iraq's best-known polling organisation.
Forty-one per cent would feel safer if the forces left Iraq altogether, and only 32% would feel less safe.


seattletimes.nwsource.com...


Four out of five Iraqis report holding a negative view of the U.S. occupation authority and of coalition forces, according to a new poll conducted for the occupation authority.
In the poll, 80 percent of Iraqis surveyed reported a lack of confidence in the Coalition Provisional Authority, and 82 percent said they disapprove of the United States and allied militaries in Iraq.



So let's say you're 80% wrong.

Sorry to clutter up this argument with facts.

This guy gets a medal for being in country that doesn't want him there, doesn't need him there, and actually wants him dead. While his actions showed merit, he should not have been there in the first place, since the war is illegal.

The 20 ambushers he killed could have just as easily been called "freedom fighters" or "Iraqi patriots", couldn't they? Were they trying to protect their country from foreign occupation or were they crazy Arab killbots? Two sides to every story.



You'd figure the first tip-off that you're unwelcome is the fact that soldiers are being blown up by SUICIDE bombers every day, but whatever, right?



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by delta74dragon
He shouldn't be looked upon differently because he is there fighting a war that may be illegal in your opinion.


You don't wish him to be seen as different, yet you see him as a hero?

Do you mean that people can see him differently as long as it's positive?

I have no problem with the idea that he is a hero, he fought tooth and nail for his survival and some may say his country. I'd certainly call his actions heroic on his part.

But people are entitled to their views... Freedom of Speech used to mean something, and people used to fight for it, not against it.

Why is it people are un-American and not patriotic enough when they don't back a cause they do not agree with?



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 10:41 AM
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I see him as someone who did what he was told and what he had signed up to do, and did it to the best of his abilities and how he was trained. I also have my own views on the war and other things. I signed up for the Army and if I was sent to Iraq and put in that position I would like to say that I would do the same thing he did. I have a family at home and alot of the soldiers there do as well, also alot of soldiers there do not get to witness the birth of their first child either.

They are there not only fighting for reasons they don't even know about, but they are also defending people here that have the freedom to say what they feel about it as well.



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 10:48 AM
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The 20 ambushers he killed could have just as easily been called "freedom fighters" or "Iraqi patriots", couldn't they? Were they trying to protect their country from foreign occupation or were they crazy Arab killbots? Two sides to every story.



You'd figure the first tip-off that you're unwelcome is the fact that soldiers are being blown up by SUICIDE bombers every day, but whatever, right?


While I won't begrudge your quotes...(just one question, do YOU think that the Iraqis would be safer if the US withdrew? Maybe the average Iraqi on the street thinks this, but they haven't exactly been made aware of their situation from the media of the former regime... The bloodbath struggle for power after a US pullout would put Saddam's killing sprees to shame...)

Another point is that many of the insurgents (especially the coordinators) are FOREIGN terrorists, not Iraqis....but from Syria, Jordan, Saudi, etc. Not exactly defending the old homefront....



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 10:59 AM
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Gazrok:

While I won't begrudge your quotes...(just one question, do YOU think that the Iraqis would be safer if the US withdrew? Maybe the average Iraqi on the street thinks this, but they haven't exactly been made aware of their situation from the media of the former regime... The bloodbath struggle for power after a US pullout would put Saddam's killing sprees to shame...)

Another point is that many of the insurgents (especially the coordinators) are FOREIGN terrorists, not Iraqis....but from Syria, Jordan, Saudi, etc. Not exactly defending the old homefront....


Actually I think the Iraqis WOULD be safer if the US left. Would they be SAFE? Probably not, but they'd be safer.

A LOT of great articles about exactly how dangerous it is to be in Iraq right now at www.robert-fisk.com . He's been there for a long time, and talks to a large amount of locals. While you may not agree with every one of his points, it's hard to ignore some of the more glaring problems.

As for the FOREIGN fighters, that's just media and Pentagon nonsense. Maybe some of the insurgents are foreigners, anxious to join a jihad and shoot some Yanks, but most of them are IRAQIS who want their country free of occupation. Some are probably also wacko Iraqi jihadists.

In all this time, with all this talk of "foreign insurgents", how many of these people have actually been identified as foreigners? "3 US Soldiers killed by Pakistani terrorists in Baghdad"? I have yet to see any proof of these foreign soldiers, the ones who are the biggest problem are the 140,000 FOREIGN soldiers currently in the country.


I say get people in there who KNOW the culture, KNOW the people, KNOW the history, and who don't bring in as much historical baggage as the US (or the UK for that matter).

You can't push Democracy on an unwilling population, no matter how much ordnance and heavy armor you have.



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 07:01 PM
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Americas first response to any foreign relations problem is always military, why is that ?

America, by ignoring the UN and the Geneva convention is now an outlaw nation.

The day will come when America bites off more than it can chew. Once weakened, at that point, the whole world will turn on America.

Do not kid yourselves, America is now the most hated nation on earth.

[edit on 23-7-2004 by Warpspeed]



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by Jakomo

You'd figure the first tip-off that you're unwelcome is the fact that soldiers are being blown up by SUICIDE bombers every day, but whatever, right?


Acutally they are blowing up and attacking more Iraqi's than us. They are attacking their own police and military guard constantly, something needed by the Iraqi people to take back their own country. Any leader that has stepped up knows they could be dead at any moment from these insane insurgents.

The Iraqi people, the real Iraqi people - who want a real country back of their own, may not want us in the end, but they didn't want Saddam for sure and they don't want any other wack job taking over either. These extremists attempting to blow up us and killing even more Iraqi's are not the people of Iraq, they are fractions. They surely don't want us there, but plenty of people know Iraq will not get their country back without our help and they are helping us (our soldiers) by stepping to the plate at the risk of their own lives.

These are the freedom fighters of Iraq, not the ones blowing us up.

And how ANYONE in this world could even think of dissing the heroism of any soldier over there no matter what they think of the war itself is beyond me. I really am starting to think the nation with the most freedoms is ultimately just the nation with the most disrespect! Sad state of affairs......



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 09:28 PM
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Warpspeed

The UN is a joke !!!!!
Does the food for oil program ring a bell, to the tune of some 12 billion dollars in bribes to nations like france, germany, russia. That is why they dislike us, we took away there source of income and exposed there scam.

We will never ask them permission to defend our freedom at home or abroad.

Relentless,

Very good point!!!

The terrorist ( I refuse to call them insurgents, or any other name that the liberals put on them) continue to asassinate Iraq goverment official, blow up official buildings, take over police stations, kill innocent people, kipnapp and behead innocent victims. By doing this only prolongs our military intervention, they dont want peace, has there ever been peace in the middle east ? 98 % of the conflicts in the world today involve islamic extremists.

READ..............


MUSLIM ON-GOING CONFLICTS IN THE WORLD
COMPILED BY MICHAELSAVAGE.COM


AFGHANISTAN: The war in Afghanistan is ongoing. Since Soviet troops withdrew, various Afghan groups have tried to eliminate their rivals. Although the Taliban strengthened their position in 1998 they have not achieved their final objective. Afghanistan harbours Osama bin Ladin, a wealthy Saudi Arabia dissident responsible for terrorist acts around the world. On 11 September 2001 members from bin Ladin's el Qaeda group highjacked 4 passenger jets in the USA, crashing one into the Pentagon and 2 into the World Trade Center, killing more than 2,000 citizens. The USA and its allies declared war on terrorism and counter-attacked, removing the Taliban from power. The war on terrorism and the el Qaeda continues.


ALGERIA: Armed Islamic groups formed and since 1992 have carried out attacks on key economic points, security forces, officials and foreigners. In 1995 Algeria's first multiparty presidential elections were held and the incumbent president Liamine Zeroual won 60% of the votes in a poll with a 75% turnout. The first multiparty legislative elections were held in June 1997 which were won by the National Democratic Rally, which holds the majority of seats along with the FLN. Although the armed wing of the FIS declared a ceasefire in October 1997, an extremist splinter group, the Islamic Armed Group (GIA), continued attacks. There is also evidence that many attacks are carried out by militias backed by the Algerian security forces. After years of civil strife, Amnesty International estimates that around 80,000 people have died
The Caucasus and Russia: The Central Asian republics have a long history of conflicts. Fighting breaks out regularly between warlords and religious groups calling for the establishment of Islamic states outside the Russian Federation. Russia is trying to hold on to the federation because the Caucasus is a vital supply route for the oil riches of the Caspian and Black Sea. With the break-up of the Soviet Union various groups fought for control in the republics. Conflicts from one republic spills over to the other and they continually blame each other for attacks. Chechnya, still part of Russia, was flung in an almost full-scale war in 1994-96 and, after a disastrous campaign, Russia was forced to re-evaluate its involvement in the area. In August 1999 Russia stepped up security in the Caucasus region as rebels from within Dagestan - a small republic where more than 100 languages are spoken - went on the attack in support of Chechnyan Muslim groups who claim independence from Russia. In September 1999 Russia launched a ground invasion into the area to cut rebels off from Central Asian supply routes. By January 2000 Russia was once again involved in a full scale conflict in Chechnya. The Caucasus issue is complicated by the more than 50 different ethnic groups each insisting to proclaim their religious convictions on the area. The situation holds serious danger for neighbouring countries, Kazakhstan, Georgia and Russia itself.


EYGPT: Fundamentalist Muslim rebels seek to topple the secular Egyptian government. At least 1,200 people have perished since the beginning of the rebellion. The conflict was primarily waged as an urban guerrilla/terrorist war. The opposition Muslim Brotherhood took part in elections in 2000, indicating that they felt armed force would not work.


INDONESIA: The struggle on the Indonesia islands is complicated by leaders of pro- and anti-independence movements, and by religious conflicts. More than 500 churches have been burned down or damaged by Muslims over the past six years. Both the Christians and Muslims blame each other for the violence and attempts at reconciliation made little progress. After a bloody struggle East Timor gained independence in 1999. The hostilities on other islands continue to claim dozens of lives, to such an extent that the break-up of Indonesia seem imminent.


INDIA/PAKISTAN: Muslim separatists in the Indian section declared a holy war against the mostly-Hindu India and started attacks in 1989, mainly from Pakistan-occupied section of Kashmir, and from Pakistan and Afghanistan. The conflict continues, with Pakistan also crushing rebellions with brute force in their section.


IRAQ: Supports Islamic terrorist acts around the world. Differing culture and religious groups within Iraq continues to clash with Shiite Muslims.


ISRAEL: Within its own borders, Israel continues to battle various Muslim organizations that seek independence for a Palestine state, areas made up of the Gaza strip, West.Bank, and part of Jerusalem. There is heavy international pressure on Israel to recognise a Palestinian state. The area of what today is Palestine was settled by Semitic tribes at a very early date. It was then called Canaan, and controlled by Canaanite tribes for more than 1,000 years. In about 1500 BC Hebrew, or Jewish, tribes began to enter the area. They later came into conflict with a people of Greek origin known as the Philistines. It is from them that the term Palestine is derived.


IRAN: After the Iranian Revolution in 1979 toppled the government of the Shah, the Mujahadeen Khalq soon began a bloody guerrilla war against the new Islamic government. The Mujahadeen are currently based in Iraq and conduct cross-border raids into Iran, as well as conducting urban guerrilla operations in the cities and conducting political assassinations. Iran occasionally launches raids against Khalq bases in Iraq.


KOSOVO: The ethnic Albanian KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) in this Serbian province fought a guerilla war against Serbia to claim the region. Beginning in February 1999, Albanians were forced out of the province, prompting NATO to attack Serbia. By July 1999 Serb troops were forced out of Kosovo, only to open an avenue for Albanian Kosovars to attack Serb Kosovars. The Albanian Muslims have since burned down dozens of centuries-old Christian churches. In an effort to establish a Greater Albania, Albanian Muslim rebels also launched attacks in Macedonia.


NIGERIA: There are violent religious clashes in the city of Kaduna in northern Nigeria beginning February 21 2004 and have continued. Kaduna is the second largest city in the north. The clashes followed a march by tens of thousands of Christians to protest the proposal to introduce Muslim sharia law as the criminal code throughout Kaduna state. Reports speak of rival armed gangs of Christians and Muslims roving the streets. Churches and mosques have been put to the torch. Corpses were seen lying in the streets and people's bodies hanging out of cars and buses, apparently killed while attempting to flee the violence. Local human rights workers said that more than 400 had been killed as a result of the clashes.


SUDAN: The largest country in Africa, has been plagued by a succession of unstable civilian and military governments since it gained independence in 1956 from an Anglo-Egyptian condominium. The long-running conflict continues between the Arab Muslim northerners of Sudan, (the base of the government), and the African Christians of the south. In the mid-90s Sudan was home to Osama bin Ladin, the international terrorist responsible for the World Trade Center attack. It is estimated that more than 1,2 million people have been killed in the Sudan war, brining devastation to the Sudanese economy.


UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: At war with terrorism.


PHILIPPINES: The Phillipines armed forces, with assistance of US troops, are fighting Moslem rebels - they have been linked to Osama bin Laden's el Qaeda terrorist group - on the southern islands of the country. Muslim rebel groups seek autonomy/independence from the mostly Christian Philippines. One rebel group, the Abu Sayaf Group, is believed linked to Osama bin-Laden's Al-Qaida. This connection, plus their tactic of kidnapping and beheading Americans, led the United States to send Special Forces to aid the Philippine Army.








[edit on 27-7-2004 by sniper068]



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by sniper068
Warpspeed

The UN is a joke !!!!!
Does the food for oil program ring a bell, to the tune of some 12 billion dollars in bribes to nations like france, germany, russia. That is why they dislike us, we took away there source of income and exposed there scam.

We will never ask them permission to defend our freedom at home or abroad.


is that what we're doing? "defending our freedom"? my freedom was never threatened by no iraqi.

by the way, the US has bribed just about every nation in the so called 'coalition' in order to gain support.

-koji K.



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 10:36 PM
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Quite a polarized argument here. Heres a little balance, take it or leave it. This mans not a hero or a criminal. He was a man doing his job, that he probably signed up for before the war in Iraq, so even if he was against it in his heart, you cannot just join the military and quit if a war happens. He probably had financial obligations as well as the legal ones. And naturally once youre in combat, Im sure you run on instinct and focus on keeping yourself and your friends alive. Probably not alot of time to sit and ponder the situation, although Im pretty sure most of them would rather be home. I believe the war was wrong too, but the soldiers cannot be held accountable for that, if they could then why would anyone join the military? Theres always gonna be someone who disagrees with any military conflict, and would you sign up to protect a population that will turn on you because you were deployed for the wrong reasons because a bad president made a decision you had no control over? But on the flip side, while a brave fighter he may have been, anybody who kills 20 people cannot truly be called a hero because heros save lives. And while in the US we can make the argument that they are indirectly saving our lives and freedom, but in Iraq it can be argued that they are monsters who are killing peoples fathers, sons etc. On both sides they are just people who are forced to take sides by corrupt leaders, and by their societies. The hero would be the person who can make it stop. Thats how I see it, anyway.

[edit on 27-7-2004 by jd27]



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