This is ridiculous, I need everyone's help

This is an e-mail from a very close friend of mine, a very close mis-guided friend. She is very religious and for some reason continues to think that she knows everything about the current situation.

Learn these facts to properly debate our poor, misguided friends & family before election time !!!

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... In the fair city of Detroit there were
35 murders in the month of January.

That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following .. FDR... led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per yr .

Truman... finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

John F. Kennedy... started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

Johnson... turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton... went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has .. liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered
300,000 of his own people. The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but... It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military moral is high! The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.

The subject of the e-mail read 'learn the facts'. I need help explaining to her in a rational way the real facts in a way she would understand. I for some reason will not be able to get through. I sometimes get a little too passionate(sp) about things and just have a hard time explaining them. Especially when they are so hell bent on not opening up thier minds to other possibilities. I have always known how she felt so I never forworded her e-mails about my point of view, but she insists on preaching her view to me. I think it might be time to start letting her know where I stand. I am going to start buy putting a little remark to each point in that e-mail. Unfortunately I do not know everything and will need a little help form everybody. Any help would be greeatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[edit on 21-7-2004 by jmilici]

[edit on 21-7-2004 by jmilici]

Ask her if she thinks Satanists are real. Ask her if she thinks Oswald killed kennedy. Ask her if she thinks their isnt any wolfs in sheeps clothing. Ask her if she believes in God. Ask her how much discount she gets for Iraqie oil? Ask her if she pays more or less taxes. Ask her if she has ever heard of secret societies. Ask her if she knows what the word "Integrity" means.

Ask her why she's quoting Mike Moore propaganda about the amount of murders in the US compared to a combat zone? Ask if she's aware of the second ammendment? Tell her you don't appreciate her e-mail that makes America look bad...worse than Iraq....less safe than Bagdhad. Tell her it's unpatriotic to spread such venom about the President's lack of domestic leadership. She'll crap herself.

... learn THESE facts:

www.americanprogress.org...

The Bush-Riggs Connection

5/17/04

The decision last week by federal regulators to fine Riggs Bank $25 million for a "willful, systemic" violation of anti-money-laundering laws is raising new questions about whether the Bush administration's ties to powerful moneyed interests is unduly influencing U.S. foreign and national security policy. Riggs Bank is headed by longtime Bush family friend Joe Allbritton, employs President Bush's uncle Jonathan as a top executive, and other executives have been financial donors to the Bush campaign. The bank is at the center of a controversy, according to the Wall Street Journal, for failing to monitor "tens of millions of dollars in cash withdrawals from accounts related to the Saudi Arabian and Equatorial Guinean embassy," including "suspicious incidents involving dozens of sequentially numbered cashier's checks and international drafts written by Saudi officials, including Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar bin Sultan." Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA) "said members of the bank's board of directors should be held to account for failing to exercise their watchdog role over Riggs's operations" and said refusal to follow money laundering laws "allows terrorists to funnel their blood money through the system."

--------

(and how 'bout dubya's cabinet of criminals)--

www.blythe.org...

Bush Employs Iran-Contra Veterans

WASHINGTON, March 13 (AP)--In the 1980s it was the biggest scandal of
the Reagan administration, a covert arms-for-hostages overture to
Iran -- more popularly known as "Iran-Contra."

Today, a half-dozen alumni of that episode have found prominent jobs
in the Bush administration.

MEMBERS: Do not simply post news articles in the forums without comment. If you feel inclined to make the board aware of current events, please post the first paragraph, a link to the entire story, AND your opinion, twist or take on the news item.

[edit on 21-7-2004 by Banshee]

This is a good one ask her why if this country and the American people is so safe why the president have the need to send our Olympic athletes with a arm guard to the Olympic games in Athens, after all her E-Mail said that bush put an end to Al-queda so we are safe Right?

Actually she is right about all that. Those are correct statistics of past events.

Though they are biased in a way. While murder rates in the US are above the DEATH toll in Iraq (thats deaths of Americans), she is ignoring the tens of thousands of LIVING victims who have suffered mental and physical trauma from the war. Many men and women have lost limbs and suffered permanent mental scars.

But my issues with Bush have never been about war. Being a republican I tend to regard war and big business spending in a good light. My issues with bush come from foreign policy and personal rights. The Patriot Act removes the right to being charged with a crime to be held in custody, the right to a speedy trial, and a lot of general freedoms. Also, the war has cost us a lot of allies. When we were fighting Germany in WW2 or the Communist based wars, a lot of our current allies supported us. While its true Clinton acted in Bosnia before getting specific French or UN approval, they did support the action once it had started. The UN even sent in troops.

As for the Bush doing a "great job" I'd ask her if revoking our freedoms, angering european allies, and seeing even one coffin come home is a "great" thing. Its not that this war is worse than many of the 20th century, but rather it cost us more than just lives and money, it cost us freedoms and friends.

So far this is what I have. I will of course take everybodies statements into consideration and write up a paragraph or two at the end to say a few more things. Like I said in the past I respected her opinions and did not try to push mine. She on the other hand acts like she can't be wrong and does not respect anybody else's opinion. Anyway here is what I have so far:

Learn these facts to properly debate our poor, misguided friends & family before election time !!! I am not a poor misguided friend.

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January. In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. What about the 10,000+ Iraqi civilians killed since the start of this war? Civilians that were NOT fighting us, NOT attacking our troops. Do you consider them collateral damage? I don�t. Do you know that there are over 1,000 troops dead (god rest their souls) and around 10,000 wounded? Did you know that the press/family are barred from seeing the arrival of our wounded & dead troops coming home? One other thing, the death toll of a war should never be compared to the death toll in america. One (1) death is too many.

That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq. See above!!!

When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following .. FDR... led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per yr. So! We are in a war against terrorism, not the rest of the world. This war has/will breed more hatred for America. Instead of attacking countries that had nothing to do with 9/11 lets find the people who had a part in 9/11 and take care of them. I have a friend that was a victim of 9/11. He was in I believe the south tower, was burned about 70% of his body. He is completely against this war because it has nothing to do with terrorism. How about the fact that no wmd�s has been found. Remember that was the reason we went to war in the first place?

Truman... finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year. It is called a Proxy war. That is a war fought against an enemy that really isn�t there. The real enemy in this war was Russia. What would you rather have, a conventional proxy war with N. Korea? Or a Nuclear war with Russia? Look back into history.

John F. Kennedy... started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Once again, Proxy war.

Maybe I've got this wrong, but her comments seem to imply that she feels the war with Iraq is more justified that the war against the Nazis in Europe? Which is quite frankly downright insulting to the peoples of Britain and Europe.

Has she conveniently forgotten about the British (and other countries) contribution to the 'War Against Terrorism'? Maybe she'd rather we turned our backs on America and left you to get on with it alone?

redalert,

Don't worry unless bush pardon himself after leaving the white house, already Kerry had imply that he will look into all this scandals and allegations, I can wait to see how bush and Cheney are going to get away from it.

[edit on 21-7-2004 by marg6043]

you cannot compare US cities to a war zone! the letter was bull!

This email is a piece of right-wing propaganda that is filled with lies and distortions. I started debunking it in the following thread

Some Historical Perspective on the War on Terror

The rest of the email is nothing but nonsense and BS. For the claim that Bush has crushed the Taliban, see my post

Taliban Alive and Well in Afghanistan

The notion that Bush has crippled Al Qaeda doesn't pass the laugh test. Bush hasn't put weapons inspectors in Libya, Iran, North Korea, or any other country. Those are all United Nations Inspectors.

The idea that Bush has liberated or taken Iraq also doesn't pass the laugh test. What Bush has done is get the U.S. military bogged down in an unwinnable guerrilla war. Please see my post Iraq Insurgency Larger Than Thought for details.

The gratuitous bashing of Janet Reno, Hillary Clinton, and Ted Kennedy is completely irrelevant, and clear evidence that the email is just right-wing propaganda.

Donguillermo it is sad how some people are still blind by what is going on around them and the world, sometimes I don't get it how can some be so naive. Or believe what they are told withouth even taking the time to investigate and find if is truth, It is scary how mind control really works in this country.

Yeah, it's called TV, public schools and misguided belief in religions. (I mean no disrespect to anybody with my last statement). With all those things telling people how to think & feel why should they do it on thier own? It's the easy way out.