Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTravelerThis led to a lot of persecutions and the truth is that the Serbs had crudges against both the
Croats and the Muslims and wanted to dominate them and for them to not attain any political power in the regions that they had natural
The usual crap. Ordinary people had no saying in what was happening in Yugoslavia, nor were they trying to attain any kind of power regardless of
their nationality. That goes for Serbs, Croatians and Muslims alike ("Bosnian" nationality doesn't exist, and has never existed in history).
Let's not forget what really happened. After Slovenia's secession (everyone was willing to let Slovenia go after the top of Yugoslavian army split
over the matter, with Slovenian generals turning Territorial Defense into ad-hoc Slovenian Army), Croatia tried to do the same. But the big difference
was that something like 95% of Slovenia was occupied by Slovenians, while big chunks of Croatian territory were occupied by Serbs. These native Serbs
in Croatia would not take the resurrection of pro-fascist government in Croatia so lightly, especially with the (still fresh) memories of atrocities
that fascist Croatia performed during WW II.
And so the, now famous, "tree log revolution" started, with Serbs in some Croatian enclaves proclaiming that they do not accept the fascist Croatia,
and that would accept the new Croatia as a country only if Serbs in it were given equal rights as a constitutional nation. The Croatian fascist
government (truly fascist, as anyone can see from the works of contemporary Croatian leaders, like Franjo Tudjman; just read his damn books, it's all
right there) would not accept such request. As a consequence of having no real Croatian army at its disposal, the Croatian leadership turned to
Vatican and Pope (Croatians are majorly Catholics), who in turn, turned to Germany.
Thus, the real deal was struck between BND (Germany's secret service) and Croatian leadership to fuel the fire. S*itloads of weaponry (mostly guns,
AK-47s left over from the Soviet occupation, anti-tank weaponry, and light artillery) were funneled over international borders (and no one dared check
the cargo, since BND was involved).
And just like in the case of Slovenia, Croatian generals started giving contradicting orders to different units. Heck, even the officers on the same
army base were split over the matter, with (Croatian) Base Commander giving the order to abandon the base and simply turn all the hardware to the
newly formed Croatian "army" (created from the same Territorial Defense material as had been the case with Slovenian Army not so long before), while
the Serbian Base Security Officer was giving the order to hold the ground. Exactly this case was described in one of the books about the war in
Croatia, but unfortunately I can't remember its title right now.
Anyway, depending on the distribution of base personnel, two things were happening all over Croatia. Some bases were handed over without a single
bullet being fired (in some of these the soldiers leaving the base were allowed to leave unhurt, while in some other they were massacred as they were
leaving), and some bases were fiercely defended, with most of the remaining hardware being destroyed during retreat. Believe it or not, some Base
Commanders were later prosecuted in Serbia for "destroying military material without appropriate orders". Just shows the stupidity of the
high-ranking personnel, but that's not the point right now.
Eventually, the war gained momentum as more and more military bases were abandoned (and reclaimed by newly-forming Croatian Army), and battles spread
over the lines separating Croatian and Serbian populations. Yugoslavian army eventually retreated from Croatia, but plenty of the armament was left
behind to be used by either side in the conflict.
So, now (plenty of time after all of of the above) we reach the point when Bosnia went up in flames. Seeing what was happening in other Yugoslavian
Republics, all three constituting peoples of Bosnia (Serbs, Croats, and Muslims) understood that there was no one to protect them, and they took their
protection into their own hands.
Alija Izetbegovic was already known for his ultra-Islamist stand, and was quickly able to find support among Arab states. Interestingly enough, Osama
bin Laden was one of the people visiting Bosnia less than a decade before the conflict, as a part of the official Saudi Arabia delegation. At the
time, he was completely unknown, and held no significant position in this delegation, but the fact he was there is still interesting as a historical
footnote. Haris Silajdzic acted as Alija's right hand, which will become of great importance rather soon. He's most probably the one who organized
Islamic Mujahedins in Bosnia.
I don't know the names of Croatian leaders in Bosnia at the time, but they were obviously supported by Croatia (and Vatican and Germany by
Radovan Karadzic took over the political wing of the Serbian movement, while Ratko Mladic took over the military aspect. The first one is now in
custody of the International Tribunal in Hague, while the second one is still free. Again, interestingly enough, if you look at the working of
International Tribunal, you fill find that something like 90% of its prisoners are Serbs. Even the beyond-any-doubt proven criminals, like Hashim
Tachi (Albanian from Kosovo) are not prosecuted for the real crimes against humanity. The fact just shows who's running the show, and against whom
(Tribunal is funded by the U.S. mostly, and Serbs are obviously on their hunting list; not Croatians, nor Muslims, nor even the organ-harvesting
Albanians like Tachi, but Serbs).
A while into the conflict, and all sides had bandit groups forming all over the place, going about, killing anyone of other nationalities in any small
village they could find. Muslims were the most known for such atrocities, but only because of Mujahedins. Croatians had some hired guns that were real
loose cannons out there, but they were mostly out of such things. I have no knowledge of similar things done by Serbs, but robberies and rapes were
rampant on all sides. However, once the news of terrible crimes spread among the populace, there was no stopping them from exacting revenge.
Srebrenica (Muslim town) got wiped clean (by Serbs) of mostly all fighting-able men after some Muslim and Mujahedin units massacred (over several
months) Serbian villages around it. The killing (and massacring) of hundreds of Serbs (all civilians, mostly old people, women, and children) in one
place triggered the killing of hundreds of Muslims in another (mostly Muslim civilians, but some of them actually did take part in massacring of
Serbs, since Srebrenica was their base of operations). A quid-pro-quo, a pure revenge. Unforgivable, but understandable.
The importance of Haris Silajdzic (the Muslim who was the right hand of the Muslim leader in Bosnia) becomes obvious once you understand that he was
the one who organized the Markale massacre (dozens of Muslims, waiting for the bread shop to open, were killed in a pre-staged event). Just minutes
before the massacre, the streets leading to the place were sealed off by Muslim Army, and immediately after the explosion, the trucks were sent in to
pick both the real people who were massacred, and also something that cannot be described as anything other than dressed-up plastic mannequin dolls
(on the actual TV footage one can clearly see a Muslim soldier throwing a "severed leg" onto the truck... with the leg having no stains of blood).
The presumable point of impact on the ground of "Serbian shell" was immediately located and presented by the Muslim Government to the western TV
crews (with Haris Silajdzic personally appearing on TV).
Before anyone could say whose shell it really was, the TV stations all around the world presented the Muslim Government's proclamation of Serbian
guilt as a pure fact. Never mind that an independent research, performed by a Canadian unit a month later, clearly proved that the shell could have
come only from the territory controlled by Muslims. In any case, that shell wasn't even the real cause of the massacre. There were some planted
charges on the street before the shell even hit the ground.
Who planted those charges? The only logical conclusion is - Muslims. Why? A classical False Flag Operation. Who taught them how to organize False Flag
Operations? CIA, of course, with a (big) help from Pentagon and retired U.S. generals working for "private" companies in the field of "military
advising". Those same "retired" U.S. generals later organized the Oluja (Storm) Operation in Croatia to perform ethnical cleansing of remaining
Serbs from the whole territory of Croatia.
Without understanding the real reasons for atrocities, one can't understand what was really going on. The war in Yugoslavia was complete
(pre-arranged) chaos, pure and simple. Designers of that chaos (Germany and U.S.) got what they wanted in the end. Germany got its little
Croatia-puppet, and U.S. eventually got part of Serbia - Kosovo, and on it - the largest U.S. military base in Europe.
In conclusion, the Vatican and Germans started it all, but it was U.S. that eventually took over all the operations, and gained most from the whole
thing. It's still gaining most with that Kosovo military base in their hands, and will not leave Balkans for as long as they can stay here.
Fortunately, they won't be able to stay here for very long, with much bigger problems they will have to deal with at home, but all in good time...
Now to be perfectly clear - I'm a Serb, so view anything I said in that light.
On a side note, ProtoplasmicTraveler, why are you using fasces
) in your avatar? You do know that fascist
Italy used those symbols in WW II, and that they are symbols of Fascism?
Are you, by any chance, a Croat? A neo-fascist Croat perhaps?
For anyone else (not from these parts of the globe), neo-fascism is a strong movement in Croatia, and is being actively supported by Croatian
government. Being neo-fascist is no shame in Croatia. It's actually a thing to be proud of, so my question has no negative connotations attached. I
am simply curios as to whom I'm talking to.