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(UK Politics) Why the Liberal Democrats Are Bad!!

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posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 05:21 AM
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I was recently asked why i don't like the Liberal Democrats (StrangeLands), well i thought i'd show you why i don't like them or their crazy policies.

The Liberal Democrats want to legalise cannabis and down grade several other harmful addictive drugs such as ecstasy. Why the hell should we legalise drugs that kill so many people???

Liberal Democrat Drug Issues

They want to plow full steam into EU intergration (my views on this are know by a few) without a thought on how the British People feel about it

My Views on Europe

They also want to give educational sex lessons to seven year olds. disgusting isn' it, they should be learning about maths and english not taught about things that don't apply to them yet

Leave them Alone

And, the Liberal Democrats don't want career criminals sent to jail

No Jail for Criminals

Why the hell do people vote for them?????? Surely nobody wants to live in a political correct country run by people who don't know what they are doing


[edit on 18-7-2004 by UK Wizard]




posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 05:36 AM
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but they have other policies too such as a democratic head of state;



Conference calls for:

1. A referendum on the future form of the head of state of the United Kingdom to be held as soon as is practicable.

2. The referendum question(s) and voting system to be decided by a balanced and consultative process, but with the provision that it must offer a choice between the status quo and a democratic method(s) of selecting our head of state.

3. The Liberal Democrats to propose, as part of this process, that:

1. Our Head of State be elected for a fixed term, the length of which to be decided by a balanced and consultative process
2. If there are to be more than two options on the referendum ballot, the Alternative Vote (AV) method of polling should be used.
3. Members of the current monarch's family not be disbarred from standing for election.
4. The removal of the ban on Parliament discussing the nature of the United Kingdoms Head of State.
5. The crown prerogative to be put under the scrutiny of Parliament



www.ldys.org.uk...

Also Religious Freedom, Racism and Fascism, Youth Rights,etc,etc. No matter what happens, UK will still be a major player in EU and we will end up joining the Euro Currency



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 05:43 AM
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that would mean the person with the most money for campaigning got to rule the country,,, sounds like trouble to me

if the royal family were able to be elected, they wouldn't have any money as their lands would become Government controlled and they would have no money for campaigning

yes we give the royal family lots of money but they generate a huge net profit from their lands which benefit the British Economy

and what is the point in having both a prime minister and a president????
either one would be pointless or they would conflict

[edit on 18-7-2004 by UK Wizard]



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 05:46 AM
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Yep, but the public gets to vote if they want the monarchy to stay. I think it would be a good idea if we got rid off the Royal Family, no need for them now. Switch to a president i say



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 05:51 AM
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can we return to the ''I hate Liberal Democrats conservation'' please


the Lib Dems are just a politcally correct party, that seeks to legalise everything, they are a softly, softly Government which i think is always bad for a country

I'D LIKE TO HEAR SOME NON-UK OPINIONS

[edit on 18-7-2004 by UK Wizard]



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by UK Wizard
I'D LIKE TO HEAR SOME NON-UK OPINIONS


They sound like they have a set on 'em to me.


Wish the US Dems weren't so conservative, watered down, mambey pambey, middle of the road, inclusive, trying to get along with far right extremists.

Is the whole spectrum of UK politics like that? Shifted left? Where the UK "right" would be like a US moderate?



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 08:53 AM
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there's isn't a real centre-right British party any more,
the Conservative Party is central now rather than their traditional centre-right from about 15 years ago
and all the other main parties are left wing.
Basicaly our political system is now full of silly left wing ideals that don't seem to be working

Bring back the Centre-Right ideals of traditional Conservatives



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 01:33 PM
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No jail for convicted felons? Are they kidding? That's just insane!


The Liberal Democrats in the U.K. sound like they have a lot in common with the Democrats in the U.S. Do any of these views sound familiar as well?

-redistribution of wealth (take money away from people who work hard and give it to people who don't work at all; P.S. -- I don't think this is the same as fair tax rates, such as a sales tax)
-fights against private ownership of land (in the name of the environment, in the Democrats case)
-is against privatization of peoples' education, medical care, and retirement (the government is supposed to only be there to pick up the slack where the private sector leaves off, IMO; not take over everything!)
-has no limits on where the government can regulate, legislate, and tax people's private lives

I don't understand this type of thinking... it's entirely self-destructive. (But then again, maybe that's the point?
)



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 03:30 PM
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The Liberal Democrats of the UK are far more left wing than the Democrats of America
Basically they are a party who's sole aim is to eradicate pride and patriotism in Britain

They are, dare i say it, worse than the Labour Party



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by UK Wizard
The Liberal Democrats of the UK are far more left wing than the Democrats of America
Basically they are a party who's sole aim is to eradicate pride and patriotism in Britain...


Yeah, I have more pride and love for the British than the Liberal Democrats do, and I'm an American!



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 03:40 PM
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And the right have spoken!

What's your poison? UKIP,BNP,or NF ???

Funny you should ask for non UK views because Brits know the issues and no more than a few links can say.

Vote Lib Dem!

Vote For Change!

Vote For Democracy!

Vote For A Written Constitution!

Vote For War As A Last Resort Only!

Vote For A Greener Britain!

Vote To Get Rid of The Council Tax!


Or vote for the same old two party system that sees your opinions ignored every day.

[edit on 18-7-2004 by John bull 1]



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by John bull 1
Vote For A Written Constitution!


I would love to see the UK get a written Constitution. How the British government is organized, and how it works with the governments of England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are very confusing (though interesting!) subjects to this American.


Are there any proposed British Constitutions on the Internet I can read? My Google searches for a British Constitution only yields websites saying "We want the UK to have a Constitution!"



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 03:47 PM
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What's your poison? UKIP,BNP,or NF ???


how dare you accuse me of supporting any of these political organisations, how does my hatred of the Liberal Democrats make me a racist

I think everyone can see what the Lib Dem's are really like (John bull 1)

So John bull1 how do you explain the:
Liberal Democrat Stance on
- Drug Issues
- Seven year olds being taught sex education
- Not jailing of career criminals

The thing is the Liberal Democrats are a bunch of far leftist politically correct loonys who don't have a clue how to run a country

Britain not having a written constitution enables us to be flexible as a nation, rather than everything being set in stone

John bull 1 i would like an appolgy for accusing me of a far right racist, which i am not


[edit on 18-7-2004 by UK Wizard]



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 04:05 PM
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"Britain not having a written constitution enables us to be flexible as a nation, rather than everything being set in stone"

You mean it allows Governments to do what they want.


Apology?

Ha! This is the mudpit mate.

Are you going to apologise to me for vcalling me a leftist just because I believe in democracy ?

No,I thought not.

As for the rest it's just propaganda.

Untrue and false with snazzy sound bites.

Lib Dems do believe in locking up career criminals but are willing to look at alternative forms of punishment like tagging for first time offenders rather than locking them up and creating career criminals.

Sex Ed for 7 year olds.Just anti lib dem propaganda.You want to look at that sort of thing look at Labour run councils.

Drugs ? Well there willing to look at decriminalising cannabis.Might be a change from not enforcing the laws that already exist which only makes the police look impotent.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 04:12 PM
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the Lib Dems are a leftist party... you support them makes you a leftist
yes i am centre-right wing but in no way does that make me a racist

how can you defend legalising killer drugs, have you seen what damage they can do????

it's not propaganda it's from a Lib Dem Conference..

so what are the real policys on the accused topics????

the softly, softly approach is not working under Labour, and it won't work under the Lib Dems

(FINE I DON'T WANT AN APPOLGY)

[edit on 18-7-2004 by UK Wizard]



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 02:30 AM
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Honestly. You turn your back for a couple of days, and the old shouty Mud Pit is back.


You guys have touched a lot of topics, so I'll try and keep this brief and (reasonably) concise. Before I begin, I would like to point out that I am not in the employ, or a member of, the Liberal Democrat party. I'm just a concerned voter


Drugs
UK Wizard, I would be interested to see the evidence you have suggesting that cannabis is a "killer" drug, or even that it acts as a gateway to harder drugs. Research I have seen (my girlfriend is a nurse, so gets all kinds of dull nursing journals brimming with this stuff) suggests that cannabis is less harmful and responsible for fewer inuries, deaths or crimes than either alcohol or tobacco. Doesn't it seem a little hypocritical for the government to promote the alcohol industry (particularly spirits, which bring in a hefty amount of taxes) and punish those who indulge in a smoke from time to time with fines, a permanent criminal record, and even prison?

This is not indicative of a soft approach to drugs - it shows a desire to relieve the police of an onerous burden which doesn't benefit society, thereby allowing them to focus their attention on the hard drugs which are ruining lives. Lib Dem reforms will also see addicts being given well-funded treatmeant to aid in their rehabilitation, and drug pushers - particularly those who target children - being punished with much tougher sentencing.

Europe
Yes, the Lib Dems are pro-EU, and I realise that this is not an entirely popular view in this country at the moment. The arguments for and against the EU have been hashed over many times (not least of all by you and I, UK Wizard
) and I don't think it's necessary to revisit them here. I would say, however, that we should applaud the Lib Dems on this subject, purely for putting forward an honest, unitied policy on the subject. At least when you vote Lib Dem, unlike Labour of the Tories, you know what they are going to do.

Sex Education
We live in a sexualised world. Seven-year-olds are exposed to sex every single day, whether it be the new Britney Spears video or the cover of Mummy's Cosmpolitan magazine. Appropriate, targetted sex education will enable children to make their own choices regarding sex, and will help to protect them from predators and abusers. No-one is suggesting given the kids advice on positions or techniques, and no-one - despite what the right-wing press has claimed - has suggested handing out condoms in primary schools. This isn't about teaching kids how to have sex, it's about warning kids of the pitfalls.

I must say I'm surprised, UK Wizard, to see any member of ATS advocating ignorance as a defense against the evils of the world.

Crime
There is no suggestions - anywhere - that the Lib Dems do not support jail terms for "career criminals". The policy at the moment involves adjusting our priorities so that non-harmful, single-instance crimes can be punished by the use of fines, tagging or community service orders. Studies show these techniques can be more effective in dealing with non-habitual criminals, and they save the tax payer a large amount of money while relieving pressure on our overpopulated prisons.

The idea that rapists, murderers and Jeffrey Arcer would be free to walk the streets is just some more anti-Lib Dem propoganda.

Head of State
I am, as you may have guessed, a staunch supporter of the idea of an elected head of state - I would be called a "Republican", but for the unpleasant connotations that word has. There are two primary arguments which support a "Presidential" head of state: firstly, that it is undemocratic and retrogressive to continue using a bloated monarchy as our figurehead, and secondly, that the monarchy has done little or nothing to add to Britain's successes in the last twenty years. If we had a President as a formal head of state - like almost every other civilised country on Earth - it would also re-energise popular interest in politics and the democratic process.

Democracy and Constitutional Issues
Can there be anyone who thinks that the constitutional needs of this country are better served by thousands of snippets of arcane legislation hidden away in dusty tomes, than by a clear, modern, inspirational constitution, protecting our rights and freedoms into perpetuity? The Lib Dems have shown again and again that they are the only party in this country which stands for governmental transparency, equitable and representative voting systems, public accountability and the preservation of our democractically-endowed freedoms.

Environmental Policies
As far as I can tell, the Lib Dems are the only one of the three main parties which has an environmental agenda. If you care about the future of our planet - even vaguely - then you have no alternative in mainstream politics. This is, as a footnote, one of the areas I would like to see the Lib Dems tighten up their policies, but they are still streets ahead of the Labour/Tory position.


All of these, as interesting as they are, skirt around the main issue regarding the next election. Blair's New Labour has stumbled through government for the last seven years, and has achieved very little. Their policies are now more Tory than the Tory policies are! Adolf Blunkett and his Amazing Authoritarian Army are ripping up our (non-constitutional) freedoms every day. Blair is covertly taking us into Europe while claiming he isn't, and denying us the opportunity to debate or vote on it. During the war on Iraq, only the Liberal Democrats had the courage to question the "evidence" and the necessity of war.

And the Tory party? Undoubtedly, they are the finest bunch of statesmen and politicians I seen since the last time I lifted up a reasonably heavy rock. They've sold out their traditional supporters by shifting the party so rapidly to the centre that they've all got whiplash, and they've lied and tried to mislead the electorate on every subject under the sun.

I don't doubt your patriotism, UK Wizard, and I respect it - which I why I can only ask you to vote Liberal Democrat at the next election. Their policies may not be exactly what you want from government, but they are the only party which will give you a chance to voice your concerns and change their policy. They are the only party which won't steamroller over their manifesto pledges the day after the election. They are the only party which won't compromise this country's interests. They are the only mainstream party which stands for something.

A vote for the Lib Dems is a vote for progressive government, accountable public servants, a re-energised political dynamic, and, most importantly, a vote for a government who will answer to the people. Whatever your personal political proclivities, the only way you are going to be able to make your voice heard in Westminster and Whitehall is to vote Lib Dem.

This page will show the true Lib Dem policies, and this is the 2004 European Election Lib Dem manifesto in .pdf format. Have a look. It makes interesting - and refreshing - reading.

Oh, and one last thing: UK Wizard, when John Bull asked you if you were affiliated with the UKIP, the BNP or the NF, you automatically protested you weren't a rascist.

While I realise that you yourself are not a bigot, have you now conceded that the UKIP is a right-wing wolf in a moderate sheep's clothing?



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by UK Wizard
how can you defend legalising killer drugs, have you seen what damage they can do????


cannabis, killer drug
Somehow i don't think so



Conference Believes:

1. That every child should be taught the dangers, problems and practicalities of sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancy;
2. That sexs education should not be one lesson, but a series of lessons given by teachers who are properly trained to teach in this area;
3. That the lesson should be compulsory rather than optional at the parents discretion;
4. That sex education lessons should begin no later than when students enter secondary education;
5. That Section 28 has been used to avoid teaching children about the diversity of sexual education and relationship structures;
6. That sex education lessons should provide students with positive images of, and information about, bisexuality, homosexuality, heterosexuality, monogamy, polyamory, and transgender issues.

www.ldys.org.uk...


I don't see no mention of 7 year olds being taught about Sex education

To be honest, i can't even begin to understand your reason for hating the Liberal Democrats. They can't do any worse then Labour or the Tories
Liberal Democrats got my vote in the European Election and they shall get my vote in the general election too



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 06:33 AM
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What UK Wizard is pointing out is conference discussions not Lib Dem policy.

Lib Dems don't put up subject restrictions so they often discuss challenging topics.

For instance at last year's conference they debated the future of the monarchy.It was voted down but I guess UK Wizard feels this and other similarly contraversial topics shouldn't even be discussed.

What Tory Boy is really upset about is that the Conservatives are rapidly becoming the third party in British politics.

But don't worry because if the Lib Dems get in then under PR you can still expect fair representation of all political views including fringe groups like the Tories instead of a daft situation where Labour with a percentagew of votes as little as 38% can expect to have an overwhelming majority and all this on 60% turnouts.

Ridiculous and definately undemocratic.



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 09:01 AM
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Are there any proposed British Constitutions on the Internet I can read? My Google searches for a British Constitution only yields websites saying "We want the UK to have a Constitution!"


Here we go (afew sites about The UK's constitution, sort of)

UK's constitution



The government last night slapped down Britain's most senior judge by ruling out the suggestion that Britain should adopt a written constitution.

In a direct reversal of his position, Lord Woolf, the lord chief justice, had expressed the need for a written constitution to protect the country from major changes being made without having to go through due legal process.

He told an audience of Israeli judges and lawyers at the 50th Lionel Cohen lecture in Jerusalem that he had been astonished by the recent pace of legal change in Britain and believed there was a need for statute to protect the country.

But in a slap down to his request, aides to Lord Falconer, the constitutional affairs secretary, said there were no plans for a constitution.

"This is not up for discussion," a spokesman for the department said. "If we had a written constitution it would be open to judges' interpretation and lead to a clash between judges and politicians.


politics.guardian.co.uk...

[EDIT]

if you don't want a royal family as head of state, join this campaign! Republic


......Im soo gonna get flamed by this




[edit on 19-7-2004 by infinite]



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 09:34 AM
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damn, i'm out numbered


i still don't agree with Lib Dem policies, and even if the issues were only talked about at a conference it still shows that there are people in the Liberal Democrats with those ideals

Reguarding the cannabis, apparntly the cannabis in use today is between 10 to 20 times stronger than it was in the 1960's, Drugs are bad, simple as that, it is halusangenic (spelling) which effects your state of mind any thing that messes with the chemicals in your brain can't be good for you



cannabis, killer drug
Somehow i don't think so


'sorry i didn't mean it was a killer drug, i meant' : cannabis is a softer drug which is a stepping stone onto harder more deadly drugs such as heroin

In regard to enviromental issues other parties do care about the countryside (although Labout might not):

www.conservatives.com...

www.conservatives.com...

Conservative Enviromental Manifesto


I found a bit on the Lib Dem Policies (Europe) that makes me laugh:



Western Europe has spent over 50 years free from war. The EU was first set up to protect the fragile peace after the Second World War by encouraging trade.


it makes it sound like we have the EU to thank for stopping european wars

it's the people of europe who simply don't want to fight each other, not the EU

just thought i'd mention the fact that everyone i know voted UKIP, not for their other policies but for a withdrawal from the EU

i looked at that republican web site, it does raise some interesting facts, that change my view of the royal family, maybe it would be best if the royal line finished with our current Queen, none the succesors deserve to become King or Queen


[edit on 19-7-2004 by UK Wizard]



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