ATS Street View 09: Americans Live to Work

Oh-oh, we've spoiled ourselves with our every-day conveniences into thinking work is unnatural. I get it.

There's been times when I too believed that I wasn't put on this earth to slave away for 8 to 12 hours a day, but fact of the matter is that if we didn't have grocery stores, clothing outlets, home depot or construction companies, we'd be left to produce all those things ourselves by hand! No thanks! I don't want to have to butcher cows for a steak. I don't want to have to design and sow together my own clothes or shoes. I don't want to have to put my house together brick by brick. I don't want to have to work the field all spring and summer long to make sure I have enough food through the winter. Would I do it if I had to? Absolutely. Do I want to? Hell No.

We have come a long way from true "work". There are still grueling professions in our world, but I would rather sit on my ass in an office designing websites or illustrating all day than worrying about where my next meal or pair of shoes came from. Lord knows I complain sometimes about how busy I am and how I have about an hour or two in a day to do what I want to do, but I realize that's more time than I'd have if I were taking care of cows and chickens, plowing the field, fetching the firewood, preparing and cooking my meals from scratch, taking care of five children, washing clothes in the river by hand, and who knows what else. Let me tell ya, if I had a farm to take care of, I wouldn't be able to take two week paid vacations twice a year. Forget leaving the farm for longer than a day without having to entrust it to someone who can take your place.

We are on our way toward a society where machines and robots will do most of these hard labor tasks for us. Someday, maybe 400 to 1,000 years from now we won't have to lift a finger to survive. All the food and products will be produced with minimum human labor, which will allow for more time to think, invent, travel, educate ourselves, and enjoy life to the fullest. We are not at that point yet, but we're closer to that goal than we were even 50 years ago.

If you don't like your job, do something about it. I've met and known extraordinary people with extraordinary determination. They gave up and sacrificed almost everything to be able to do what they wanted in life. It takes guts, it takes hard work, but it is achievable. Am I that strong and dedicated? Well, I try to be, but I'm not trying nearly as hard as I could be. I accept my lot in life. When I become anxious to step it up, I will do what I need to do.

Work is the transfer of energy. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. We must acquire our energy through food, and we must do something to find this energy to uphold our life. Otherwise, we would either die or be on life support. It is natural to want to find energy to intake. Therefore, it is not unnatural at the base level.
However, when one is doing jobs for other people in order to find this intake of energy, it is an indirect supply, and I view that part as unnatural. This is usually work to uphold the current social system that we have and participate in. Most people are willing to do this to utilize the luxuries that it offers. At this point, it's more than working; it is socially competing for energy. If you're not helping man's system, you're #ed. And this occurs mostly in the populated areas, obviously. But people need to eat, and if they're stuck in the area, they'll do what is necessary. It's partially natural, I suppose.

THE POINT - If you're working with nature directly to supply life energy to you and your family, it is natural. When you have a job to uphold the system and acquire food, it's - I would say - seminatural.

Well we DO live in a capitalistic country, so living for work is insinuated. Comes with the deal. Corporate oligarchies can't work without humble drones. buzz buzz

reply to post by projectvxn


I hate to risk P.O.ing a mod, but, with all due respect, a few thoughts...

The Coyote gets out just before sunset and stays out till just before sun up to hunt for it's food in the bitter cold mountains of Nevada.

And the coyote, like most hunters, naps during the day and rests for days between kills. Grazers "work" all day. But it doesn't really look too strenuous, standing around eating.

Ancient Man worked all day from sun up to sun down plowing fields and hunting for meat just so they could survive through the coming winters.

Well, that MIGHT be true, but, sun set is 6:30 all winter where I live. Believe it or not, the amount of work necessary to support one's self, without much surplus (which would not be good for the elite class) is modest. And, I am speaking from experience.

If you think it's unnatural, then explain to me how you're gonna eat, keep warm....Text

I garden, raise chickens and goats. Takes about an hour or two a day. More in the spring. Less in the winter. I heat with wood. That takes a half day's work once a month to cut and stack. I built and repair my own small house. That takes a couple of days a month to keep up with. All in all, nowhere near what a full-time-worker does in order to make money for his or her corporate overlord.

I've heard this theory before...And it's usually peddled by academics who have never really worked a day in their lives.

Self-educated, no degree. Ran a business 80+hrs a week for a while and worked full time as both manual and sales labor. Perhaps i am the exception to that rule.

reply to post by 2manyquestions

We are on our way toward a society where machines and robots will do most of these hard labor tasks for us. Someday, maybe 400 to 1,000 years from now we won't have to lift a finger to survive. All the food and products will be produced with minimum human labor, which will allow for more time to think, invent, travel, educate ourselves, and enjoy life to the fullest. We are not at that point yet, but we're closer to that goal than we were even 50 years ago.

Well, that's what was told to the underclass when the industrial revolution started. Didn't happen. And when women joined the "work force". Didn't happen. And when robotics and computers began to gain power in the 70's. Didn't happen. What happens is that the rich get richer and the commoners work harder and harder for less wealth. Check it out.

Originally posted by projectvxn

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Work is unnatural huh?


The Coyote gets out just before sunset and stays out till just before sun up to hunt for it's food in the bitter cold mountains of Nevada.

Ancient Man worked all day from sun up to sun down plowing fields and hunting for meat just so they could survive through the coming winters.

If you think it's unnatural, then explain to me how you're gonna eat, keep warm....

I've heard this theory before...And it's usually peddled by academics who have never really worked a day in their lives.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 22-2-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Then let man go back to that. Oh, wait, they've made it illegal!

There's a massive difference between hunting for food and wage-slavery

Your post, and every other post on the forum, seems nothing more than an attempt to troll. I can't see how you became a mod with all your fallacious views.

reply to post by bricmpt

reply to post by NadaCambia

reply to post by prepared4truth


I can't think of any societies or communities who don't work...

Use communists as an example, they work for the greater good, not for bettering their lives or increasing their assets.

Nomadic tribes worked to live and it stems back from there if you ask me, it's the basis of human civilisation.

Even before tools were fashioned, man was working, foraging for food, making shelter etc etc.

Modern society is basically the same, there is just a 'middle man' now with currency...even with no currency, a bartering society for example would still require you to work.

I think the premise that humans aren't meant to work is ridiculous and is being pushed by the lazy generation Y's, mass generalisation I know but damned if I can find a decent, hard worker under 22 these days, there is a gigantic, enormous gap in this regard, at least here in Australia anyway.

People work to survive. Always have, always will. The only difference now is that most people have to work for someone else to ensure their own survival instead of working to take care of themselves and their own. This is what makes work seem unnatural. I'm fortunate in that I manage properties for my mother-in-law and live in a house, a pretty nice one too, that she gave me and my wife free and clear in exchange for my services. The good old fashioned barter system is still alive in America folks.

There is more than enough vacant land that we own that I will be using to ensure that we will someday soon be self sufficient enough in the way of food that I won't have to worry about providing for my family should an emergency arise. We will have to work to maintain that lifestyle of course, but it is a very natural type of work.

I feel kind of sorry for the people in the cities who not only don't have this opportunity, but wouldn't know what to do with it if they did. I have a feeling that for them, the kind of work I do is unnatural because I'm not working for the "man". I'm working for my family.

Well, the Street View took place in New York City and found numerous teachers, artists, photographers and musicians. Those are the kind of jobs I would love to have. I am extremely educated for my level of education - I have a bachelors in psychology and a minor in computer science and a minor in math - and I have also ran a recording studio.

However, I am not finding any jobs or opportunities in the small town I returned to after graduating college. There are no jobs and I am running the risk of working menial labor even though it is something I will not enjoy just to make ends meet. This is unnatural, especially considering the amount of education I have. The reason for this is that I am used to challenging my mind, having vision, a reason to go to work.

I am running the real risk of working for minimum wage while barely being able to afford an apartment, and not having the time or money to improve my situation. I think that is something that is going to affect many college graduates in my age group. It is unnatural. The reason it is unnatural is because as a human being, we should always be able to harness our drive and vision into a better future.

Forcing a human with high drive, vision and intelligence into a cookie-cutter menial labor position is, mark my words, a recipe for revolution. As I mentioned earlier, I imagine there are others in my position who are highly motivated, intelligent people with vision who are surviving on welfare with the state the economy is in. With a looming government shutdown, no more welfare checks - the thugs in charge are not going to have to deal with your run-of-the-mill poor person this time. They will have to deal with streets full of educated people. This is much more dangerous.

I think a more informative video on the subject would be to track down recent college graduates and see how they are faring. The older people in the video are lucky because they were able to get established in their fields before the economy hit rock bottom, and they are doing jobs they like. Even someone like me, a college graduate who would like to teach, has no money to continue my education.

Originally posted by projectvxn

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Do you know what an academic is? Apparently not

Academics think they can live by theory. And they're surprised when it doesn't work out. I never said anything about teachers.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

At the university level "professor" and "academic" are usually interchangeable.

Yes, in addition to their teaching responsibilities instructors are expected to stay current with what is new in their area of expertise and to write and publish in their fields.

Many, if not most, advancements in areas like science and medicine as well as liberal arts such as philosophy, begin with research in the universities. Just because you might not be interested in their particular field of knowledge does not make their work irrelevant.

Wow. You must have had some bad experiences in school.

I recently read a book by Tom Hodgkinson 'How to be Free'. A very good read that essentially touts the same theory. His philosophy is that it is better to play and be happy while doing the bare minimum to ensure survival than pay homage to wage slavery. Its a very good read although some of his historical points are very simplified.

I found myself agreeing with many of the principles of the book. We want to be happy and have been brought up to believe that money will bring us happiness. Work = money, money = happiness. But if you think about it money, work does not - for the majority of us - bring us happiness. What does is time with family, friends, playing music and being part of a community - be that rock climbing or making jam.

Personally, I think our wants outstrip our needs. We are now at a stage where we need to re examine what we really need to make us happy and adjust our work commitments accordingly.

reply to post by Sestias

reply to post by projectvxn


Are you really surprised that 18-25 yo kids hope to get rich? I'd be shocked if they didn't aspire to what obviously is a dying demographic in America. Who the hell wants to live in poverty for 60-70 years? Their best chance for that is Powerball.

I've already outlined what a hopeless endeavor a portion of 'further education' is and that the young people need to focus instead on the type of courses that actually teach them a practical trade, like heavy machinery operation or carpentry.

Academics are teaching the young to live by theory alone? That's kind of off the mark, imo. The ones really teaching our kids today are American Idol and Jeopardy. I'd like an 'M', please... ding, ding ding. Instant money (maybe). That's the reason 50% of youth think they're going o be famous.

Academia is a faltering system. Just ask anyone with a BA as to how they're using it to get those good jobs out there. Not worth a nickle to employers that are looking for experience. They'd rather hire someone who's got a trade.

Also, about that 'work ethic' thing, you're absolutely right. Nobody wants to be digging ditches with a shovel or unloading bales of cotton on a new York dock anymore, because, guess what... it's all done by heavy machine operators and truck drivers. Getting down to loading and unloading trucks, it's done by forklifts driven by, you guessed it, machine operators.

How in the heck are you supposed to find work requiring 'elbow grease' today? Getting hired onto an Amish farm and baling hay by hand? Roofing houses might do and framing houses isn't easy work. trouble is, in the housing market today... who's building much anymore?

About living by theory alone; It's always with us and always will be. Ask any hunter and they'll have plenty of theories where that prize buck will be when the season opens. Mining companies invest millions into satellite imagery hoping to suss out where that next diamond mine or patch of oil might be hiding. Fishing fleets, complete with factory ships scour the locations where, by theory, they believe to find those schools of sea chickens.

Farmers plant crops according to what they hope will be profitable in 6 months. People build highrise condos hoping the public will buy. We sell and trade stocks according to what we theorize will turn a profit.

Some are even hoping to mine the moon and sinking money into that endeavor. Theory and speculation.

You just can't get away from it.

We can't know everything and often we need to go by instinct and theories simply because no JP Morgan is going to be whispering golden clues in our ears.

reply to post by masqua

reply to post by projectvxn


I need to agree from experience. I've spent more than my fair share of time supervising and managing some basic entry level work that attracted lots of younger people (mainly because it was all they could get) and I have got to say I have noticed this sense of entitlement that is absurd! These kids don't really want to work or put any effort into what they are doing and I am expected to thank them for simply showing up.

I'm a fair person and will always reward hard work and intelligence. But experience is key! I remember being young and thinking how nice it would be to get a job solely for my brains and I had to work hard and gain a lot of experience for that to happen. It finally did. (And frankly it's terrible too bad it pays better than doing the manual labor!) Experience has always been key. A college graduate still needs experience to make it.

As already said: Work is not unnatural; however this trend towards people thinking lack of work might be correct is distinctly unnatural and detrimental to society and humanity to top it off.

the black dude is very straight forward "work to live, but also live to work" gotta make a living, but also enjoy doing it at the same time.

It is unnatural to work at something one hates in order to live. Living to "work" in one's bliss is natural.

Right now, statistically, we all hate our jobs. Only a statistically insignificant number love their work. This can be changed and I point out again that we can now create robots for all necessary work no one loves to do.

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Originally posted by projectvxn

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Work is unnatural huh?

If you think it's unnatural, then explain to me how you're gonna eat, keep warm....

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Please see the links in my previous post here for your answer.

Just because previous evolution required us to do work we took no bliss from does not mean that we cannot move beyond that to blissful "work" for all of us.