ATS Street View 09: Americans Live to Work, page 1


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ATS Members have flagged this thread 17 times
Topic started on 22-2-2011 @ 03:09 PM by AboveTopSecret.com
Another week, another sacrifice on the bitter-cold streets of New York City, as our Street View team brings to the topics of ATS to the unsuspecting masses. This week, our team took inspiration from a thread by ATS member GeminiSky, titled: Do you feel like Having to Work is un-natural? In the intentional tourism hotspot of New York City, there seems to be sufficient evidence that most Americans work their tails-off and live to work, while the rest of the world views their bread-earning jobs as the enablement to live.


Standard definition version:

(click to open player in new window)



Watch in full HD


reply posted on 22-2-2011 @ 04:06 PM by projectvxn
reply to post by Sestias



The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Do you know what an academic is? Apparently not

Academics think they can live by theory. And they're surprised when it doesn't work out. I never said anything about teachers.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



reply posted on 22-2-2011 @ 06:33 PM by angelwrangler
reply to post by AboveTopSecret.com



Another great production...and I am now used to the director's quirky second story shot(s). It's not often you see that in a "man on the street" shoot. Now, I see it as a signature. Well done to everyone.

I found this topic and the interviews, frankly, quite fascinating. Those interviewed were clearly reaching deep, it was obvious they had never asked these questions of themselves. I believe Jesse and D-Cin caused some epiphanies for the people interviewed in this production. This is the stuff from which Peabody Awards arise.


reply posted on 22-2-2011 @ 06:59 PM by WhizPhiz
reply to post by djtek




the question should have been phrased "Do you think the amount of time you spend working is unnatural?"
Exactly...

Like I said in the other thread, it's excessive amounts of work forced upon people that is unnatural. Work it's self is completely natural. However, 5 days a week, 8 to 10 hours a day, is vastly excessive and only helps keep this overly glutenous economy on its feet.

edit on 22-2-2011 by WhizPhiz because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 22-2-2011 @ 07:21 PM by masqua
Originally posted by projectvxn

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Do you know what an academic is? Apparently not

Academics think they can live by theory. And they're surprised when it doesn't work out. I never said anything about teachers.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Academics... let's go dictionary:

ac·a·dem·ic   /ˌækəˈdɛmɪk/ Show Spelled
[ak-uh-dem-ik] Show IPA

–adjective
1. of or pertaining to a college, academy, school, or other educational institution, especially one for higher education: academic requirements.


Positive


2. pertaining to areas of study that are not primarily vocational or applied, as the humanities or pure mathematics.


Sort of positive

3. theoretical or hypothetical; not practical, realistic, or directly useful: an academic question; an academic discussion of a matter already decided.


Negative

4. learned or scholarly but lacking in worldliness, common sense, or practicality.


Negative

5. conforming to set rules, standards, or traditions; conventional: academic painting.


Positive if one likes that sort of thing (I don't)

6. acquired by formal education, especially at a college or university: academic preparation for the ministry.


Positive if one likes pulpits & dogma, negative if one doesn't

7. ( initial capital letter ) of or pertaining to Academe or to the Platonic school of philosophy.


Meh...PhD's, BA's, BSA's. I'll touch on that later.

–noun
8. a student or teacher at a college or university.


Not a bad job, right? Well, perhaps not...

9. a person who is academic in background, attitudes, methods, etc.: He was by temperament an academic, concerned with books and the arts.


Negative or positive.

10. ( initial capital letter ) a person who supports or advocates the Platonic school of philosophy.


I hate repetition.

11. academics, the scholarly activities of a school or university, as classroom studies or research projects: more emphasis on academics and less on athletics.

dictionary.reference.com...


OK... sure sounds negative, doesn't it? Yes it does. These people that get into that must be either come from extremely rich families who can afford to put them through 'further education' or they are complete fools for going so deep into debt that it'll take 25 years to get their collective heads above water again.

Hi... that's me. The dad who was encouraged by how well his two sons did that he pushed and provided for them both to go to universities. Of the two (who both made the grade), one actually thrived in academia and graduated 'with distinction'. Lovely term, eh? Well, it meant that he won a PhD scholarship to one of Canada's foremost universities and, boy, were those years ever hard on him, but he DID it. He has a PhD, published his thesis and looked upon the academic world for possible opportunities to work towards a full time job teaching, maybe even that holy grail... TENURE .

Yeah... right.

Here's reality, folks:

No-one can handle teaching more than between 8 and 10 classes a week. This is because prep time and marking papers, which is all done at home, takes a huge chunk of time. The pay is minimal, so 8-10 is about what you need to be able to have an apartment and a reasonable living. It varies city to city, college to university, of course;

No classes are more than 4 months at a time. They are contracts and can be dropped at any time by the college or university. You have to re-apply for every term and for each institution. You win some, you lose some, you'd better be ready for change 4 times a year.

One rarely gets all their courses set up at the same college or university and, often, they are in seperate cities. Commuting is a real pain AND costly.

One always has to be ready to move, as the next seies of classes could very well be a thousand miles away (or more).

Contract 'professors' are low paid compared to tenured staff, so financing a car and an apartment in a city may very well be a no-win situation. Buses and trains rule. The schedules had better fit or you're in trouble.

It has been my son's experience that he'd be better off working a steady 40hr/wk minimum wage job flipping burgers at a Micky Dee than he makes as a professor. And that's the bottom line.

Academia, while it's still viewed as the key to a better paying job somewhere, don't be fooled. The better jobs are gained by being trained in the 'Trades'. Go to college, learn to be a plumber or electrician, and you just might have a brighter future that those who focus on Academia. Butt-crack under a sink is the real flag of success.

Don't misunderstand me, though. It's the way it is because of economics. We still need academics simply because they are the one out of a thousand who will eventually become pillars of country and community. Would you trust Joe the plumber to be Chief Justice? Really?

Anyways... the system is stacked against academics today, and, imo, not worth all the time and effort it requires to attain that PhD. Leave it for the very wealthy kids. The ones that never need to work a day in their lives anyways. Win/win and life-long frat parties. Woot!

But, be very careful when you're talking to a lower middle class man or woman who fought all the way to a PhD. Don't be making him or her out to be a lazy so-and-so, because that's just not right. If you think it's so easy to pull off, then please prove it to me, because that's not what I saw over the 8 years it took my son. Not then and not now.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
edit on 22/2/11 by masqua because: sp



reply posted on 22-2-2011 @ 07:57 PM by NoHierarchy
First, I have to say that none of the people interviewed in the video actually answered THE QUESTION. They stepped around the question and rationalized it instead of really considering it. They also seemed to give half-assed answers... almost like telling themself/others what they wanted to hear.

OF COURSE, it's "natural" to work WITHIN our system. But looking at the entire course of human history and the lives of other species?

WORK IS NOT NATURAL.



First though... we must define "natural" because it's one of those words that's thrown around quite loosely without clear definition. The way I'm using it (and I believe others mean to or should mean to use it) is considering whether humans are biologically, socially, mentally, spiritually, anthropologically driven to work. We must also define "work". Is this work IN GENERAL? Is this only work for a wage/salary? Does this include ANY kind of work towards ANYTHING? The manner in which this should be taken is humans working wage/salaried jobs to gain money to spend in the marketplace. With these definitions in mind... I must say that work is NOT inherently natural, but instead is a relatively recent cultural development which is REQUIRED in our civilization but not required for our species automatically or inevitably. We are a civilization which keeps things... all kinds of things... under lock and key. We have strong and rigid notions of property... we own things, money, land, animals, etc. This intense notion of ownership is completely ALIEN to say, tribal or band societies. For over 90% of modern human history, we did NOT work jobs, we did not NEED money, we did not OWN things, people did not OWN us, our time, or our labors. This is an ideal we have sadly lost in this machine of civilization which has taken us all for a ride... yet rarely does anybody really question where we're going and what we're riding in.... for it is a mindless self-serving system which does not necessarily cater to humans or ecosystems but rather requires that humans/ecosystems cater to IT. So OF COURSE, if you accept the reigning system/civilization and you are thinking WITHIN that paradigm then yes, work is "natural". But if you take a holistic view of reality, the world, the universe, humanity... then work is not natural... or at the very least is neither natural nor unnatural but merely is. In which case... I think deep down most people are dissatisfied with mandatory work and the monetary system.

Here are some pennies for the thoughts of those of you who believe we somehow have it 100% better today because we work sh*t jobs...

Medieval Peasants may have had more vacation time than the average American worker:
money.cnn.com...

Egyptian slaves were actually kind of similar to modern workers:
ftp.aa.edu...

Hunter-gatherer societies worked less than we do and their work was more like play:
www.psychologytoday.com...
&
www.primitive.org...
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